New Queensryche snippet, thoughts?

[mattbrood]

To be honest, I don't consider 2013 Geoff Tate much, if at all. Like you, I have little interest in 99.99% of the artists who were prominent in the 80s. There's simply too much good music being created by relevant musicians who are currently in their prime.

And this isn't a Geoff vs. Todd comparison. There is no comparison. Geoff Tate created music that was so amazing, so profound, and so genre-shaping that we're still talking about it today. He's among the pantheon of Metal's greatest vocalists, if not THE greatest. Todd LaTorre is a singer in a tribute band. Can he hit all the notes in "Queen of the Ryche"? Perhaps he can. That makes him no exactly different than all the other folks I've seen do it over the years. But the genius doesn't lie in duplicating those notes, it lies in creating them. It's the reason we have Queensryche karaoke at PP... it's the reason Mindcrime is performing at PP for the second time this year... it's the reason for this thread... and it's the reason Todd LaTorre can make a decent living performing in a Queensryche tribute band. So let's not confuse owning the legal rights to the Triryche symbol with being the "real Queensryche". The "real Queensryche" existed between 1982 - 1994. May they rest in peace.

still, with three founding members, I wouldn't call Queensryche with La Torre a cover band, just like i wouldn't call Iron Maiden a cover band after DiAnno left, or Van Halen after Roth left, or Priest after Halford left. Those bands went on without their original singers, some succeeded and some failed, but they all just wanted to move on for whatever reason, whether La torre fronted Queensryche succeeds or fails, only time will tell, but i would call Tate's rotating line up of players a Ryche cover band or maybe Geoff Tate solo instead of calling it Queensryche, whether he is 'The voice" or not

 

[Stevie WOnder]

To be honest, I don't consider 2013 Geoff Tate much, if at all. Like you, I have little interest in 99.99% of the artists who were prominent in the 80s. There's simply too much good music being created by relevant musicians who are currently in their prime.

And this isn't a Geoff vs. Todd comparison. There is no comparison. Geoff Tate created music that was so amazing, so profound, and so genre-shaping that we're still talking about it today. He's among the pantheon of Metal's greatest vocalists, if not THE greatest. Todd LaTorre is a singer in a tribute band. Can he hit all the notes in "Queen of the Ryche"? Perhaps he can. That makes him no exactly different than all the other folks I've seen do it over the years. But the genius doesn't lie in duplicating those notes, it lies in creating them. It's the reason we have Queensryche karaoke at PP... it's the reason Mindcrime is performing at PP for the second time this year... it's the reason for this thread... and it's the reason Todd LaTorre can make a decent living performing in a Queensryche tribute band. So let's not confuse owning the legal rights to the Triryche symbol with being the "real Queensryche". The "real Queensryche" existed between 1982 - 1994. May they rest in peace.

Whether you're right or wrong will become clear after their coming disc with LaTorre.

 

[General Zod]

still, with three founding members, I wouldn't call Queensryche with La Torre a cover band, just like i wouldn't call Iron Maiden a cover band after DiAnno left, or Van Halen after Roth left, or Priest after Halford left. Those bands went on without their original singers, some succeeded and some failed, but they all just wanted to move on for whatever reason,

Matt... you're missing the point I'm trying to make. It's not about QR *just* losing Tate. It's also about them losing DeGarmo. Queensryche is now absent both primary songwriters from their golden age. They've lost the two people who created the QR sound. To use your example, it would be like Maiden losing Dickinson and Harris, it would be like Van Halen losing Eddie and Dave, it would be like Priest losing Halford and Tipton.

whether La torre fronted Queensryche succeeds or fails, only time will tell

Whether they succeed or fail is irrelevant to my point. When they fired Tate, if they also fired Parker Lungren and replaced them with Barlow and Schaffer, would it still be QR? What if they had replaced them with Khan and Loomis? My point is, a band is not about the legal rights to the name. It's not ultimately about the quality of a release. It's about the sound that the members create as a whole. So when a band loses its lead singer AND they lose their lead guitar player, AND those two people were also the two primary songwriters, it's no longer the same band.

Whether you're right or wrong will become clear after their coming disc with LaTorre.

It's not about being right or wrong, it's merely my perspective; this is not Queensryche in my mind. This could be my album of the year and I still wouldn't view it being the same band.

That said, my expectation is this... the disc will be solid. Ultimately, it will be a disc that if released by any unknown band, would be unremarkable. However, because it will be the first QR disc in 20 years not to shit the bed, it will be hyped as a "return to form". However, that initial excitement will wane and the disc will be remembered as the rather unremarkable disc it was.

 

[Justin G]

That said, my expectation is this... the disc will be solid. Ultimately, it will be a disc that if released by any unknown band, would be unremarkable. However, because it will be the first QR disc in 20 years not to shit the bed, it will be hyped as a "return to form". However, that initial excitement will wane and the disc will be remembered as the rather unremarkable disc it was.

I can't argue with this. It's probably the best we can hope for.

 

[dtfanatic]

To be fair to Wilton, go back and read the song credits, he wrote a lot more than you think he did.

 

[mpire]

The other factor is the lawsuit, both ends of this mess were kinda pushed into releasing an album and a tour to justify their claim to the name. In an ideal world, Tate would be making his solo albums and QR would have carried on as Rising West, who knows..
Another side of me says this CD has a shot at being solid and it's fair that they get to show how bad the last 3 or 4 albums were.

 

[General Zod]

To be fair to Wilton, go back and read the song credits, he wrote a lot more than you think he did.

I'm not suggesting Wilton didn't write. But even if we grant him as much credit as we do Tate and DeGarmo, that still means QR has lost two thirds of its creative voice... including the voice that defined their sound.

And if Wilton was and is such a prominent creative force, with all these tremendous ideas floating around his head, why has he allowed his band to fall to shit? The firing of Tate demonstrates that the three remaining members had the legal standing to do as they pleased. It's hard to believe they let Tate set the (awful) creative direction of the band, while they were just standing in the background piling up a catalog of brilliant material that Tate forced them to keep off the albums.

 

[Pelata]

Maybe they held back material because they knew Tate couldn't sing it the way they wanted it sung? They allowed GT to do his thing because at least he could sing it...even if most of it was "bleh".

Of course, if this was the case, they could have canned him a long time ago.

 

[High Speed Kurt]

Zod,

read the lawsuit if you have time. Tate basically forced their hand. It became a paycheck to them, sucks but they had to play ball.

 

[mpire]

Zod,

read the lawsuit if you have time. Tate basically forced their hand. It became a paycheck to them, sucks but they had to play ball.

And it was gradual over time, whether it was taking on the merchandise, having his wife manage, bringing in writers and session musicians and finally setting up the mindcrime movie without anyone even knowing about it.

 

[Everonn]

And if Wilton was and is such a prominent creative force, with all these tremendous ideas floating around his head, why has he allowed his band to fall to shit? The firing of Tate demonstrates that the three remaining members had the legal standing to do as they pleased.

Not to mention that there was no reason any tremendous ideas had to end up on a Queensryche Record. That isn't the only project Wilton was involved in. If he had *classic* QR caliber material, why is Soulbender not the new hotness? It's enjoyable, sure... at least I enjoy it well enough. But it's not remotely in the same ballpark as classic QR. It's not even the same sport. If not Soulbender, why not another project with a different group of guys? There was nothing stopping him... nothing at all. This also completely deflates the "Tate forced their hand" argument. I call bullshit.

Truth is, if *anybody* from the band could write material as stellar as their writing from 20 years ago, they would have. There was nothing stopping them.

By the way, since Promised Land the *closest* they've come to songwriting that good (admittedly with still a ways to go) was some of the material on MC2 which, as the legal docs make clear, the rest of the band had little or nothing to do with writing. It was Geoff, Jason Slater, Mike Stone and a couple of hired hands.

- Chris

 

[General Zod]

Of course, if this was the case, they could have canned him a long time ago.

Agreed.

Zod,

read the lawsuit if you have time. Tate basically forced their hand. It became a paycheck to them, sucks but they had to play ball.

I read about as much of it as I could tolerate. The reality is, even if everything happened just as they say it did, they still have no one to blame but themselves. And quite frankly, it's hard to believe that while holding the power to fire Tate at their pleasure, they sat back with their superior ideas and allowed him run roughshod over the band.

And it was gradual over time, whether it was taking on the merchandise, having his wife manage, bringing in writers and session musicians and finally setting up the mindcrime movie without anyone even knowing about it.

My question isn't whether the Tates took advantage... I'm not defending them personally. My only point through all of this, is calling this a QR album is a joke (in my eyes).

Not to mention that there was no reason any tremendous ideas had to end up on a Queensryche Record. That isn't the only project Wilton was involved in. If he had *classic* QR caliber material, why is Soulbender not the new hotness? It's enjoyable, sure... at least I enjoy it well enough. But it's not remotely in the same ballpark as classic QR. It's not even the same sport. If not Soulbender, why not another project with a different group of guys? There was nothing stopping him... nothing at all. This also completely deflates the "Tate forced their hand" argument. I call bullshit.

Truth is, if *anybody* from the band could write material as stellar as their writing from 20 years ago, they would have. There was nothing stopping them.

This.

 

[Urban breed]

It's not about being right or wrong, it's merely my perspective; this is not Queensryche in my mind. This could be my album of the year and I still wouldn't view it being the same band.

Exactly. Well, almost. I would still be fine with them going by Queensrÿche. I'd just deal with it like most people deal with Deep Purple. (My favorite Deep Purple line-up is MKIII, btw)

 

[DustyV]

Agreed.

My question isn't whether the Tates took advantage... I'm not defending them personally. My only point through all of this, is calling this a QR album is a joke (in my eyes).

This.

That's understandable, although it's pretty obvious that one band's music(the new QR) is going to be superior over the other(the old QR).... After hearing Tate's QR, it doesn't take much to be superior, LOLO....

 

[mpire]

I was wondering today, whichever side wins the court case in November, probably isn't going to include the others in the "official" discography.
Kinda gives it a bit of a Thunderdome quality to the proceedings.

 

[Element_man]

And quite frankly, it's hard to believe that while holding the power to fire Tate at their pleasure, they sat back with their superior ideas and allowed him run roughshod over the band.]

They were probably scared completely shitless at the thought of firing Geoff Tate.

 

[General Zod]

Exactly. Well, almost. I would still be fine with them going by Queensrÿche. I'd just deal with it like most people deal with Deep Purple. (My favorite Deep Purple line-up is MKIII, btw)

I get why the band is doing it. Their sales (what's left of them) are largely driven by nostalgia (e.g. people who no longer follow the scene). Changing their name would result in a massive loss for them. My issue is more with the idea that anyone is arguing over who the "real Queensryche" is, when it seems so clear the answer is "None of the Above".

By the way, I've never heard that Purple disc. Mainly because, I haven't heard most Purple discs. I just looked at the line up. Going to have to give it a spin.

That's understandable, although it's pretty obvious that one band's music(the new QR) is going to be superior over the other(the old QR).... After hearing Tate's QR, it doesn't take much to be superior, LOLO....

Exactly. Deciding between the two is like trying to decide between getting punched in the gut or kicked in the nuts. As a rule of thumb, you go with the gut punch. But that don't make it pleasant.

They were probably scared completely shitless at the thought of firing Geoff Tate.

And with good reason... that motherfucker will cut a bitch. :Spin:

 

[Pelata]

"Is GT gonna haf-ta cut a bitch??"

 

[KingsGene]

QUEENSRŸCHE Vocalist Todd La Torre On New Album - "A Huge Deviation From The Last Couple Records"

 

[Element_man]

And with good reason... that motherfucker will cut a bitch. :Spin: