Nightingale-White Darkness Lyrical waste

[Kenneth R.]

see, I agree with some of what this is saying... people should not do the will of a deity to incur favor, they should do it out of worship for the deity. In other words, people shouldn't do good deeds here on Earth expecting that doing so will get them into heaven or whathaveyou, they should simply do it because they believe in the rightness of doing good, reward or not.

And we are, as the lyrics say here, ultimately the ones in charge of our fates with the choices and decisions we here make. We can't blame it on anyone or anything else. And the rest of the lyrics show clearly the kind of corruption that has plagued organized religion for milennia: the greed and warmongering.

I also feel that blind faith in anything is a fool's path. I use the analogy of skydiving often to illustrate my point. You're ready to jump, and a man hands you a pack. Do you simply accept that he knows what he's doing and risk your life with that trust? Perhaps if you are very good friends. But is it not better to know yourself? I say, one must make sure, investigate to see how well the parachute is packed. If, upon investigation, you find that it is incorrect or damaged, you don't use that one. (You stop believing in it's ability to save you). If you find that it is secure, you feel confident that when you jump and pull the cord, it will open and you will land safely. However, you can never be fully certain that you are right. This trust without certainty, but not blind trust, is what I define faith as. Faith in a particular thing, be it a deity or a friend or a scientific theory, should always be of this nature - examined, investigated, confident-- but certainty is impossible since we are incapable of predicting the future with 100% accuracy. I worry for those who blindly believe anything they are told.

 

[Stilgar]

see, I agree with some of what this is saying... people should not do the will of a deity to incur favor, they should do it out of worship for the deity. In other words, people shouldn't do good deeds here on Earth expecting that doing so will get them into heaven or whathaveyou, they should simply do it because they believe in the rightness of doing good, reward or not.

And we are, as the lyrics say here, ultimately the ones in charge of our fates with the choices and decisions we here make. We can't blame it on anyone or anything else. And the rest of the lyrics show clearly the kind of corruption that has plagued organized religion for milennia: the greed and warmongering.

I also feel that blind faith in anything is a fool's path. I use the analogy of skydiving often to illustrate my point. You're ready to jump, and a man hands you a pack. Do you simply accept that he knows what he's doing and risk your life with that trust? Perhaps if you are very good friends. But is it not better to know yourself? I say, one must make sure, investigate to see how well the parachute is packed. If, upon investigation, you find that it is incorrect or damaged, you don't use that one. (You stop believing in it's ability to save you). If you find that it is secure, you feel confident that when you jump and pull the cord, it will open and you will land safely. However, you can never be fully certain that you are right. This trust without certainty, but not blind trust, is what I define faith as. Faith in a particular thing, be it a deity or a friend or a scientific theory, should always be of this nature - examined, investigated, confident-- but certainty is impossible since we are incapable of predicting the future with 100% accuracy. I worry for those who blindly believe anything they are told.

Those are my views exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.

About Gar... Either you're just trolling or you're for real. Either case, nothing I say will make you change your mind. If you're for real, I just want to leave you with one last piece of advice:

Travel the world and see things with your own eyes and make up your own mind about things instead of blindly, without question, believing what a few select people tell you.

With that I put it to rest and will comment no more.

 

[jimbob]

I think the lyricks rocks . Maybe cause I believe in myself and not at god that will rule and decide how my life should be........But if there is a god that can be there for me when I need some kind of special help...I wouldn´t mind!

 

[Kenneth R.]

I also feel the matter of faith is intentionally created. That we are meant not to know things for certain, so that we rely on our own intellect and are forced into choices, forced into learning and forced into forming our own sense of morality and deciding when to abide by it. If whatever god there was, simply came out and said "Yo! What's up people. I'm GOD", the significance of faith would be zero, just as in a situation where no evil is present in the world --- What I mean by that is, a classic philosophical question - Why would there be evil? If there was no choice you could make that was bad/wrong/evil, then what significance do any of your choices have since you'll always end up choosing "right"? So then, I feel a world wrought with evil, in which there are a multitude of bad choices, and very few good ones, then for someone to despite all that still make the "good" choice- that is much more significant. In the same way, a world where the god or gods are subtle is more significant because believers must search hard to find evidence of Its/Their presence. So, in this longwinded paragraph, I'm simply saying that the world isn't perfect, and isn't meant to be. Perfection is always the "higher" realm of which we on Earth have only stories about. What makes our world special is that we are given the free will to choose what to do with ourselves, and to shape our futures and those of others. We choose our own fates.

one last thing, about not taking things for granted or blinding oneself: There is a passage in the Bible, a book I consider to be truth (either figuratively or literally depending on the section), that I think is totally unnecessary. In one of his later letters, the apostle Paul basically slams guys wearing long hair, among other things. While I understand what he meant to accomplish by his guidelines in this letter advising the young church, I disagree with him and his personal opinion. And I think that's fine.

 

[Stilgar]

I also feel the matter of faith is intentionally created. That we are meant not to know things for certain, so that we rely on our own intellect and are forced into choices, forced into learning and forced into forming our own sense of morality and deciding when to abide by it. If whatever god there was, simply came out and said "Yo! What's up people. I'm GOD", the significance of faith would be zero, just as in a situation where no evil is present in the world --- What I mean by that is, a classic philosophical question - Why would there be evil? If there was no choice you could make that was bad/wrong/evil, then what significance do any of your choices have since you'll always end up choosing "right"? So then, I feel a world wrought with evil, in which there are a multitude of bad choices, and very few good ones, then for someone to despite all that still make the "good" choice- that is much more significant. In the same way, a world where the god or gods are subtle is more significant because believers must search hard to find evidence of Its/Their presence. So, in this longwinded paragraph, I'm simply saying that the world isn't perfect, and isn't meant to be. Perfection is always the "higher" realm of which we on Earth have only stories about. What makes our world special is that we are given the free will to choose what to do with ourselves, and to shape our futures and those of others. We choose our own fates.

*nod* I understand what you mean.

one last thing, about not taking things for granted or blinding oneself: There is a passage in the Bible, a book I consider to be truth (either figuratively or literally depending on the section), that I think is totally unnecessary. In one of his later letters, the apostle Paul basically slams guys wearing long hair, among other things. While I understand what he meant to accomplish by his guidelines in this letter advising the young church, I disagree with him and his personal opinion. And I think that's fine.

Yeah. I have no doubt that you can make up your own mind. The last part of my previous post was meant for Gar... Hope I didn't confuse anyone. Heh. I wasn't going to comment more on this matter, but I wanted to make sure that part wasn't misunderstood.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Just thought I'd hit the last nail

 

[Naglfar]

Don't bother arguing with him, I'm still convinced it's Lord K in disguise, trolling Dan's forum for kicks!

 

[Dan Swanö]

oh,oh... I think I started something here...
I have just seen too many fake christians in my days...
I hate it when people use their religion to excuse themselves for incredibly stupid acts. If you have been a friend of my music since the early days, you know this... some of the lyrics I have written in the past are a bit too anti-religion even for my taste, but I was a bit younger and more insecure of what I believed in back then. The emptiest cans make the loudest noise, you know...
Rock on!!

 

[Kenneth R.]

Got a point, I agree

 

[paradoxile]

I considered myself anti religion until not long ago but yesterday while meditating I saw the importance of religion...and i don't mean to disrespect but religion is there for the spiritually weak...for those who have their hearts and minds in the right place but need much guidance and despite all I'm still certain that there are more than enough good people with decent moral standards in the service of the religion they belong to.
on the other hand religion for the non spiritual ones gets devastating results...I'm talking about people who were raised to follow blindly the word of god even though it's clearly coming out of the mouth of a mad.
this way you get christian and orthodox jewish gay bashers, islamic nonjustified jihad as a few examples...and these people are following religious leaders without an ounce of spirituality because just think about it...i was meditating/praying and out of the blue god told me to kill everyone whom, "my people" have some sort of a grudge against for the past 500 years.
I see a lot of people praying out of force of habit...and that's just sad.

now as for death metal and gore and whatnot(with dan's music included)...there's a clear difference between fantasy and reality...I'm pretty sure any decent christian would say that music about brutally murdering jesus leaving his body to rot and then feasting on it in a wierd sort of comunion is pure fantasy and therefore should be regarded as art and no more...it's about as harmless as a zombie movie(though scary movies give nightmares to some people)...then there's racist music which is very real and is the true music of the devil.not that the devil is real or anything.
now as for music about not believing in god...believing isn't voluntary, it's sort of a brain reflex decision in reaction to what it knows and people have the right to present their arguments against the existance of god as other people have the right to agree or disagree with them.
and about the murder rampage such as colombine and suicidal teens killing themselves because of music and the church acusing those people of being a danger to society i have to say this...if music had such an effect on a person, then it could have also been anything else that has put the last nail in the coffin.

 

[Demilich]

Awesome lyrics, by the way!

Am I wrong to think that One Way Ticket is somewhat faith-related also?

 

[BloodSword]

First off, can we all agree that we all have within in us, our hearts? Thought so!! We as humans are at war, within our hearts, spiritually. God has blessed all of us with "free will." Be that as it may, a relationship with God or not, is strictly a personal one. For Jesus, lives within our hearts, if we CHOOSE to let him reside there. And certainly there are those who choose not to let Jesus in. Hence, a spiritual war. We ALL must respect each others choices about what he/she believes, without being judgemental. I do however take issue with those who say, "you use God to help you through tough times, instead of relying on yourself." And, "If there is a God why does he let war, disease, famine, pedophiles, and murderers exist?" First, to be a Christian in this world takes courage. To accept God's will and to do what your heart tells you to, even in not understanding why or how. Christians are walking a narrow road, for there is not many on this road. Non-believers walk a huge high-way, containing all worldly materials, pleasures and possessions. That is their RIGHT, as is my RIGHT to walk the narrow path. Man has brought upon war, disease, famine, greed, corruption, murder etc etc NOT GOD!!!WE must look within ourselves to correct these atrocities. Another thing is that the Bible are God's words interpreted by man over 2000 years. How can anyone say with complete accuracy these words have not been misquoted and/or blatantly incorrect. We can't. That is where FAITH comes in. Simply put, believing in something you can not see, touch or feel. Hell is not burning in a Lake of Fire, Hell is complete separation from God for eternity. In this life realm we make choices using our "free will" We build ourselves spiritually into hopefully the best spirits we can become. When we die and move on to the next life realm, we will be judged and determining our spirtual "maturity" we will be placed with others spirits who are at the same level. And with continued growth be able to ascend to higher spiritual levels. Of course, this is my belief, and I'm NOT trying to get anyone to believe. That is YOUR choice. Lastly, Dan Swano is an artist/musician, who has every right to convey what he wants through his music and lyrics. You can agree or disagree. That is your right. However, my feelings are maybe Dan Swano shared a personal experience with us so that we may look at it and ascertain for OURSELVES what he may be trying to convey. Just maybe Dan is hoping to teach or show us something that he has gone through. To me, that takes courage and is a mark of a true artist with integrity. And we all have a choice, remember FREE WILL. Peace.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Ilan, I don't necessarily think religion is for the weak, but I definitely see that perspective, since many people who are weak turn to religion to help them.

 

[BloodSword]

God is for weak people that are to afraid to make their own decisions in life.
Believe in yourself man! Or, believe in what you want but don't bother me with your beliefs. All religions are man made!

Nothing could be further from the truth. God forbid, If you find yourself in a situation that would require you to believe in yourself and not Divine intervention to help you. Use your imagination for such a scenario. You sound to me someone who is very young with not much life experience to make a statement like above. Then again you could be old and foolhardy. My friend, think about this; God brings pain and insurmountable problems into our lives to bring us closer to him!! NOT being weak in reaching for God's help, but being courageous in asking for that help and accepting the consequences. Believe me, man Jesus is my best friend. And he knows I dig Metal. I'm not trying to be a "holy roller" just hoping to be helpful. Peace.

 

[paradoxile]

@ken:you're right...there's madonna
spiritually strong people don't need religion to tell them what's right...they can hear it from god himself. that was my main point.
if you come from a religious background and are spiritually strong...sooner or later you'll stick to god and abandone the codes of religion which you will see as flawed one by one.

anyway agree to disagree.

 

[Kenneth R.]

BloodSword my bro,

 

[gar977]

First off, can we all agree that we all have within in us, our hearts? Thought so!! We as humans are at war, within our hearts, spiritually. God has blessed all of us with "free will." Be that as it may, a relationship with God or not, is strictly a personal one. For Jesus, lives within our hearts, if we CHOOSE to let him reside there. And certainly there are those who choose not to let Jesus in. Hence, a spiritual war. We ALL must respect each others choices about what he/she believes, without being judgemental. I do however take issue with those who say, "you use God to help you through tough times, instead of relying on yourself." And, "If there is a God why does he let war, disease, famine, pedophiles, and murderers exist?" First, to be a Christian in this world takes courage. To accept God's will and to do what your heart tells you to, even in not understanding why or how. Christians are walking a narrow road, for there is not many on this road. Non-believers walk a huge high-way, containing all worldly materials, pleasures and possessions. That is their RIGHT, as is my RIGHT to walk the narrow path. Man has brought upon war, disease, famine, greed, corruption, murder etc etc NOT GOD!!!WE must look within ourselves to correct these atrocities. Another thing is that the Bible are God's words interpreted by man over 2000 years. How can anyone say with complete accuracy these words have not been misquoted and/or blatantly incorrect. We can't. That is where FAITH comes in. Simply put, believing in something you can not see, touch or feel. Hell is not burning in a Lake of Fire, Hell is complete separation from God for eternity. In this life realm we make choices using our "free will" We build ourselves spiritually into hopefully the best spirits we can become. When we die and move on to the next life realm, we will be judged and determining our spirtual "maturity" we will be placed with others spirits who are at the same level. And with continued growth be able to ascend to higher spiritual levels. Of course, this is my belief, and I'm NOT trying to get anyone to believe. That is YOUR choice. Lastly, Dan Swano is an artist/musician, who has every right to convey what he wants through his music and lyrics. You can agree or disagree. That is your right. However, my feelings are maybe Dan Swano shared a personal experience with us so that we may look at it and ascertain for OURSELVES what he may be trying to convey. Just maybe Dan is hoping to teach or show us something that he has gone through. To me, that takes courage and is a mark of a true artist with integrity. And we all have a choice, remember FREE WILL. Peace.


Thanks, for that magnificent factual paragraph Bloodsword. I was waiting for one rational piece of great input from this room and now I have it. Thanks So Much. I had to recognize that. Kenneth, you may be at a stage in your life where you think its ok to listen to this stuff. I guess Im guilty of that in the past too. But, Brother.. If I showed those lyrics to my Minister friend these days-He would say throw that in the trash immediately. This is man with not only Doctorates in Divinity and been in the church since childhood. Just trying to help man. I love the story of Swanos relationship, great stuff.
Stilgar, you can believe whatever you want to believe. This man on radio knows everything going on in the world in great accuracy like no other. If believing in only Gods word(The Bible) is narrow minded- in the judgement you referred to me as,. Then Bro you got me. Yes, I am narrow minded in that regard and proud of it. Jesus died for your sins too, and I hope you will use your own "free will" to accept him one day. Your free to beleive in Odin or whoever, but I would be sad because I know its not the way to Heaven. My life has completely changed and I finally have peace my friend. Before it was in turmoil as many on this planet full of sin. Its a life changing experience.
Thanks All! God Bless.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Still judging me, yet BloodSword is a fan too. You say you have peace but it doesn't really sound like it the way you keep trying to change people's minds. The need for others to agree with oneself often stems from an insecurity in one's own beliefs and a need for reassurance.

Also, I don't think it is fair, right, or even logically accurate to say that one person's opinion (in this case your Minister friend) is more right, simply because of the extent to which they are exposed to the subject. I know many faithful believers who were not raised in the church, led horrible lives, and only recently came to their decision. I respect them as much. I am such a person, though I grew up in a family that went to church, it meant nothing to me and I disliked many of the same things that Dan is voicing on this record. I still feel that way. I've simply come to the discovery that though the church experiences I had were bad, that was due to the way the people there skewed it and changed it for their own purposes. I investigated many religions deeply, and found out my own beliefs align with one very closely. So that I will stick to, regardless of how many supposed followers muck it up for themselves and others. To end this tangent, I'll once again say that having a doctorate in religion doesn't make one more or less pious than anyone else, and to think so is arrogant. Actions determine who we are.

 

[Demilich]

Gar, you don't "know" that you have figured out the correct way to heaven. You don't even know that there's anything at the end of that path. "Faith" doesn't mean you know anything, it is called a belief because you choose to believe in something that may or may not be there. Speaking to us as if we're blind to something that definitely exists makes you look a fool.

Until you learn to speak of your faith without condemning anyone who doesn't see it your way, you will be the type of Christian that I (and so many others) disrespect, and with good reason. Notice that not for one second do I attempt to slight you for your belief, simply for the way you're so quick to assert it as fact rather than the faith that it is.

 

[gar977]

Kenneth, look back to a couple posts ago. You judged me in that whole paragraph practically. Hypocrisy is not good my fellow. Of course having a degree doesnt make you more pious-but he knows Gods word inside out and is a Minister-Im trying to tell you that having this liberal sense of mind Is not of the Gods word. How did you not catch that? Im starting to think more and more you just want to score points in here for self gain and recognition. Goodness man. Why dont these things hold much weight what you mention?

Of course almost everyone in here agrees to your liberal sense of mind-They love the music and you are just agreeing that its ok to listen to this music. You should be standing by your convictions and saying good things to lets peoples hearts understand Jesus- But you have said nothing of the sort. I continue to post here because I believe you are leading people to think anything goes almost-You are only telling people what they WANT to hear. That is so wrong man. My friend has studied every religion you can name. He knows all of them-I am not ignorant of the world religions either. The Bible has been put together over years and somehow miraculously everything fits together. To see how someone can deny that is beyond me.