Non-gay bro thread a.k.a. Random offtopic stuff.

[Xpyro125]

I’ve recently been listening to another band, Callejon, who I don’t really hear too much about in English-speaking circles, and it got me thinking— What are some of your guys’ favorite Depeche Mode covers? In Flames’ two are absolutely on my list, but I do want to mention the couple of others I know.

Obligatory mention of Callejon here, since I mentioned them above. They mainly do metalcore that I don’t have much interest in, but this album is more alt rock and synthwave, and it’s one of my favorite albums period due to the great musicianship. No synthwave in this cover, surprisingly, but it’s pretty energetic and could totally work as some arena rock type shit. It’s the only non-German track on the album lyrically, so it’s that much more approachable too. I still recommend the whole thing though.


I like Lacuna Coil a decent amount, but not as much as I used to. Always found Karmacode to be a boring album that wanted to be nu metal without really understanding it, so the more gothic rock interpretation of the cover here is really refreshing.

 

[DE4life]

I don't really know any Depeche Mode covers outside of Everything Counts, honestly. I like the Callejon cover of People are People (have only heard the original song a handful of times though), whilst Lacuna Coil have never really been my cup of tea. Nothing about them is bad, but the gothic metal with female chick singing just doesn't do it for me. The closest I've got to enjoying something like that is Nightwish, but that's mainly because there is a lot of melody there too. The gothic elements are more of an undercurrent than the primary layer.

 

[DE4life]

I know there are a couple of lads on here who enjoy the more traditional power metal stuff... @Pallbearer I think? Maybe @galvanized and @The Grayfox depending on the bands, I can't remember, but anyway... been enjoying a band called Final Strike's first album, Finding Pieces. As far as I can tell it's an all new band with mostly people in it who haven't really done anything before. I was pleasantly surprised that it took me back to that old school, traditional PM sound from the late-90s/early-00s. You don't hear that sound on current albums very often these days, so I thought this was a nice little album. A couple of tracks below.

 

[The Grayfox]

I have a weird relationship with power metal. There are very, very few straight up power metal bands that I enjoy. The ones that I lean towards have another element involved. Iced Earth for example, many call power metal, but I've never seen them that way. They're much darker than traditional power metal. Very heavy Maiden and Priest influences there. Even Mystic Prophecy, people call them a power metal band too. I don't see them that way either. To me, they're more of a traditional metal band. Nevermore -- people called them power metal, which I never understood. Again, much darker. Other than HammerFall and Blind Guardian, I don't know that there are any other power metal bands that I listen to. Stratovarius sometimes. If it's a power metal hybrid, I'm much, much more likely to be into it.

Bands that I can think of right off the top of my head that have some sort of power metal influence or edge to them would be Iced Earth, Beast in Black, Pyramaze, stuff like that. You're not going to see me rocking out to Rhapsody or Fellowship -- no offense. There's nothing wrong with those bands or bands like them, I just can't get into it. I can totally get behind a band like Beast in Black, who obviously has some power metal influence in there, but adds in other styles. If there were 15 more bands like Beast in Black, I would probably listen to them. But I haven't found any really that scratch that itch, other than Battle Beast, but I don't think that really counts.

There's a certain 'darkness' I like in 99% of the music I listen to. And I find that MOST power metal is way too happy sounding for me. Again, Beast in Black is a rare exception, even though they do have some darkness in there too. Evergrey, while not power metal at all is a prime example of what I mean. There's an inherent darkness and melancholy in their music that I love.

 

[DE4life]

I get what you mean. Power metal as a label is used for a really wide palette of sound. Traditional power metal, which I'd define as stuff like Helloween, Rhapsody, Fellowship, is quite different to Iced Earth, Beast in Black, Falconer or Iron Saviour, but most would bundle them all under the Power Metal banner regardless. I'd say the vast majority of bands under that label are hybrids of PM and other genres. Traditional PM is very niche these days.

A lot of people tag Maiden as PM as well, but I'd class them as just straight heavy metal. No doubt they're a huge influence on many PM bands, but they're also a big influence on bands like In Flames.

 

[mindd]

So, uh, now sure if anyone here is gonna appreciate this (maybe @Jester Slave? these guys are Reznor's friends after all haha), but eh gonna post it anyway
HEALTH's new album is reaaaly nice if you like that sort of stuff.
They are leaning even farther into heavier territory this time, with apparent industrial influences, chugging guitars and overall dark mood
Well, it's still HEALTH, so, Jake's vocals are not everyone's cup of tea, and obviously that's not metal and certainly not MDM, so this wouldn't really be this forum's first musical choice.
Anyway, check this out, If anything, these guys are really nice in person and are huge memelords, sooo HEALTH 1:0 modern In Flames

 

[Xpyro125]

So, uh, now sure if anyone here is gonna appreciate this (maybe @Jester Slave? these guys are Reznor's friends after all haha), but eh gonna post it anyway
HEALTH's new album is reaaaly nice if you like that sort of stuff.
They are leaning even farther into heavier territory this time, with apparent industrial influences, chugging guitars and overall dark mood
Well, it's still HEALTH, so, Jake's vocals are not everyone's cup of tea, and obviously that's not metal and certainly not MDM, so this wouldn't really be this forum's first musical choice.
Anyway, check this out, If anything, these guys are really nice in person and are huge memelords, sooo HEALTH 1:0 modern In Flames

My brother loves Health, so I’ll be sure to ask him how the new album is if it dropped today. Good shit.

 

[galvanized]

Dragonforce x Amaranthe

This song is actually a banger. Good job

 

[DE4life]

Well... it's certainly something fun song, although it seems like Dragonforce are a full-on parody band these days. Not that they've ever been especially serious, but I actually really liked the first album they did with Marc Hudson - The Power Within. That has some really good songs on it. In fact, looking at the tracklist I like all of them a lot. It's probably my favourite album after Valley of the Damned, which is an OG PM classic. Sonic Firestorm is good too but a lot of the songs are long just for the sake of having unnecessarily long guitar solos, which gets annoying after the first two times. It was basically their gimmick at that point but it hurts the album retrospectively. TPW is much tighter, with all songs clocking in at around or under 5 minutes.

 

[drawntoblack]

Dragonforce is just not for me. It's interesting how you can tell that this metal/eurodance mashup is slowly becoming the next trendy thing with bands like Electric Callboy.

To piggy-back on the Health convo from a few weeks ago, It's pretty rad how they got to use the old Command and Conquer footage for that new song, wonder how that came to be since Westwood is now EA property.
I remember really loving the Max Payne 3 soundtrack. On topic of video games and Max Payne, his voice actor James McCaffrey died a month ago.

Anyway, the track from the Max Payne 3 finale, the airport shoot-out slaps hard:

 

[DE4life]

I mean, Amaranthe have been doing the metal/eurodance thing since they began in 2011 and they were called sellouts/posers back then. Maybe they were just ahead of the curve. Electroheart came out in 2013, and is (imo anyway) much better than the Dragonforce track:



On the other hand I genuinely think The Nexus is a fantastic album, so maybe it's just my bias coming through.

As far as Dragonforce are concerned - love the first album (VOTD), like the second and third albums (Sonic Firestorm, Inhuman Rampage), indifferent to the forth (Ultra Beatdown), love the fifth (The Power Within) then... didn't really get into anything they've done past that point. The first three singles from the latest album are very catchy, but I don't think they have any real longevity and the descent to total parody band is a bit sad.

 

[drawntoblack]

I know about Amaranthe but they come off as genuinely serious about music whereas the upcoming trend I'm talking about is more of self-aware cheese. Power metal is likely at an all-time low in terms of popularity, especially serious power metal. 15 years ago you had bands like Kamelot, Blind Guardian and Sonata Arctica that were ultra popular with big european tours all the time. Nowadays the only power metal band that seems to be doing well is Sabaton and even they have to rely on the cheesy shtick of camo pants and military vests since their image carries the brand, the music is quite one-dimensional to stand on its own.

As far as pop metal stuff goes, Amaranthe is alright but their songs are all quite short and formulaic. You can switch choruses between the songs and it would be difficult to tell the difference.

 

[DE4life]

I know about Amaranthe but they come off as genuinely serious about music whereas the upcoming trend I'm talking about is more of self-aware cheese. Power metal is likely at an all-time low in terms of popularity, especially serious power metal. 15 years ago you had bands like Kamelot, Blind Guardian and Sonata Arctica that were ultra popular with big european tours all the time. Nowadays the only power metal band that seems to be doing well is Sabaton and even they have to rely on the cheesy shtick of camo pants and military vests since their image carries the brand, the music is quite one-dimensional to stand on its own.

As far as pop metal stuff goes, Amaranthe is alright but their songs are all quite short and formulaic. You can switch choruses between the songs and it would be difficult to tell the difference.

I tend to agree on Amaranthe, probably why I lost interest after their first two albums. I think those two are great - The Nexus especially has a very streamlined and focused dystopian/cyberpunk soundscape which is crafted extremely well - but everything afterwards just sounds too samey. There are still some tracks I enjoy afterwards, but generally 2-3 tracks per album rather than the entire thing.

In terms of traditional PM, yeah, you don't see much of it in the current metal landscape. That's why for me it's pleasant to hear bands like Fellowship and Final Strike putting out genuinely excellent classic sounding PM albums as of late - you don't hear that sound very often these days. Those two bands both show it can still be done and done well, although truthfully both will likely have a limited ceiling if they stick to the traditional part of the genre for too long.

Typically when I speak to people and Dragonforce comes up, they either think of Guitar Hero or that they're a pop-metal parody style band. Nobody has ever listened to anything from Valley of the Damned. Kind of a shame as VOTD is a genuinely great album with a lot of very cool musical variations across the tracks. There's even a jazz-like section in Disciples of Babylon. The album is raw as debut albums from young bands generally are, but I like that unpredictability.



Where Dragons Rule was at one time probably my favourite song. I listened to it countless times and was lucky enough to see it live on the one tour in 2009 where they actually played it - it had only been played a handful of times before and, according to setlist.fm at least, never afterwards. At the time I wasn't checking setlists online before shows, so I was absolutely stunned to hear the opening keyboard. Even though it was by far my favourite Dragonforce track, and probably a top 5 across my entire playlist, I never for a second thought they'd play an obscure bonus song written by somebody who had departed the band before VOTD even came out.

Well anyway, for them to have gone from that to stuff like Power of the Triforce and Doomsday Party... eh. It's not quite as bad as In Flames going from TJR to the crap they produce these days, but it gives me similar vibes. The DF stuff is still okay, but it feels pretty hollow.

 

[Cronopio]

Interesting discussions here. I agree with the appeal of Amaranthe, especially their first albums. The Nexus - the title song - is so damn catchy you can sing it by heart the FIRST time you hear it and before the songs is even over too. That's some serious songwriting chops right there. Olof Mörck is really talented, but I think he's at his best in Dragonland, and they were around long before Amaranthe.

When it comes to Dragonforce, I agree they've kind of been on a backslide for a while now. Their last album, Extreme Power Metal, was really solid, not to mention having one of the most honest album titles ever, but the singles released for the upcoming album have been lackluster. I have no problem with 8+ minute power metal songs, as long as they're catchy. The 2nd and 3d DF albums excelled in that. As for Where Dragons Rule, it was written by a man who went on to form one of the greatest PM bands of the 2000's - Power Quest. Those dudes released some of the most high quality PM of the time, and Steve Williams was the main songwriter.

Back to Dragonforce: I still have a soft spot for their earlier stuff, in particular the song Lost Souls In Endless Time (also a bonus track), one of the greatest power metal songs ever, if you ask me. Written by the since departed Vadim Pruzhanov, who played the keyboard, as did Steve Williams. Do I see a pattern here?

 

[Xpyro125]

Dragonforce x Amaranthe

This song is actually a banger. Good job

I love the guitar solos, but the song surrounding it is so lackluster and just diet Amaranthe, who I’ve already lost my love for over the years. I like that they’re dabbling in other sounds, but this is just a vapid, nothing attempt to explore this one.

 

[Xpyro125]

I tend to agree on Amaranthe, probably why I lost interest after their first two albums. I think those two are great - The Nexus especially has a very streamlined and focused dystopian/cyberpunk soundscape which is crafted extremely well - but everything afterwards just sounds too samey. There are still some tracks I enjoy afterwards, but generally 2-3 tracks per album rather than the entire thing.

I like their first two albums, but they’re seriously flawed (I think Andreas gets like two minutes or so of total screaming time on The Nexus with the bonus tracks?)

I think Massive Addictive has the best songwriting and is still fun and them while being something that one can take seriously musically. I’ve always loved Jake’s vision of having the lyrics be Hollywood b-movie type stuff, and I think it worked as it really showed that the band was in on the joke too. Massive Addictive is like the “big budget b-movie” version of their earlier stuff, if you will. It doesn’t have much of Jake’s vocals, but his overall songwriting is much sharper here.

Maximalism may not have been written by Jake (Save for two songs), but it is a really fun album with a bunch of different stuff. It’s dumb— Incredibly fucking dumb, but that sort of becomes the appeal if you can just enjoy it for what it is. I hated it back in the day for that very reason, but I’ve come around on it a lot since I suffered through Amaranthe wanting to be taken seriously as an actual metal band. It also has the best distribution of the three vocalists out of the first four albums, which helps a ton especially with how their parts in the structures did have quite a bit of variety. It’s also the last album of theirs with good electronics, as Helix would for some fucking reason go with far more awful sounding synths when Maximalism arguably had their best ones. Doesn’t help that this is their last fun album, with the soul of that being sucked out since they realized that they would have better success shedding basically every niche and just making stuff for arenas and “hey, metal”. The Nexus was incredible at having metal sprinkled throughout the pop, and that’s incredibly refreshing compared to especially Manifest and onward. I don’t think Helix is the worst, as it has quite a bit of variety and good stuff here and there, but it was the beginning of the end.

I will say that Nils is a good replacement for Jake, especially with their voices and vocal roles being so different.

 

[DE4life]

Interesting discussions here. I agree with the appeal of Amaranthe, especially their first albums. The Nexus - the title song - is so damn catchy you can sing it by heart the FIRST time you hear it and before the songs is even over too. That's some serious songwriting chops right there. Olof Mörck is really talented, but I think he's at his best in Dragonland, and they were around long before Amaranthe.

When it comes to Dragonforce, I agree they've kind of been on a backslide for a while now. Their last album, Extreme Power Metal, was really solid, not to mention having one of the most honest album titles ever, but the singles released for the upcoming album have been lackluster. I have no problem with 8+ minute power metal songs, as long as they're catchy. The 2nd and 3d DF albums excelled in that. As for Where Dragons Rule, it was written by a man who went on to form one of the greatest PM bands of the 2000's - Power Quest. Those dudes released some of the most high quality PM of the time, and Steve Williams was the main songwriter.

Back to Dragonforce: I still have a soft spot for their earlier stuff, in particular the song Lost Souls In Endless Time (also a bonus track), one of the greatest power metal songs ever, if you ask me. Written by the since departed Vadim Pruzhanov, who played the keyboard, as did Steve Williams. Do I see a pattern here?

I get people not liking Amaranthe, but at the same time I find it hard to accept people saying albums like The Nexus are bad. They may not be to some people's taste, but it's clearly not a bad album. Production is excellent, music is tight throughout, the album has a genuine identity and vocally all three are in good form. I can't help but think if 'Mechanical Illusion' was released by Scar Symmetry or In Flames people would go crazy over it, as it's a really cool track. I heard Nexus for the first time in 2017, so some years after it came out, and I didn't even know who Amaranthe were at that point so I went into the album with no preconceptions. All I knew was that Jake had been a member, as I pivoted to Amaranthe from here when we were discussing the upcoming Cyhra debut album. I was genuinely blown away by Nexus, the first album in a really long time that I absolutely loved from start to finish. I never got into subsequent albums in the same way, but that's not uncommon for me. Typically I only tend to really like two or maybe three albums from any one band, with the rest being OK or not interesting me a huge amount.

I actually listened to tracks from Sonic Firestorm this afternoon and I remembered how much I like that album too. The only song that is a bit too long is Soldiers of the Wasteland which is good but doesn't need to be 10 minutes long. Way too much guitar wankery going on which really hurts replay value. Most of the other tracks are solid though. I had forgotten how awesome the end of 'Prepare for War' is. It's fantastic how they change up the chorus and make an already soaring chorus even more epic, especially those ending lines:

"We'll show no mercy as they all
We'll show no mercy, slay them all
Til' death becomes us, we won't fall
The fire burns inside, now prepare for war"

Just brings the song to a really powerful crescendo.

I often wonder how much influence Steve Williams had on other VOTD tracks too. I know he penned WDR, but it feels like a lot of the keyboards on that album have his touch - the opening to Starfire and Evening Star, parts of Disciples of Babylon too. I was also reminded how incredible Revelations is - it kind of gets lost in their back catalogue and hasn't been played much live, but it's one of the best choruses they've ever done.

I really enjoyed Power Quest up until and including Master of Illusion, which is still my favourite album overall from them. Most people prefer Wings of Forever or Neverworld, but Master of Illusion just clicked with me in a unique way. I listened to it an absolute ton between 2008 and 2009 especially. The band was never quite the same for me after Alessio Garavello left, and I didn't really get into any of the albums after that. With that said, I really liked 'Bound for Glory' and was gutted that there wasn't a final album that came out of it, as I would have loved an album based on that sound.

 

[DE4life]

I like their first two albums, but they’re seriously flawed (I think Andreas gets like two minutes or so of total screaming time on The Nexus with the bonus tracks?)

I think Massive Addictive has the best songwriting and is still fun and them while being something that one can take seriously musically. I’ve always loved Jake’s vision of having the lyrics be Hollywood b-movie type stuff, and I think it worked as it really showed that the band was in on the joke too. Massive Addictive is like the “big budget b-movie” version of their earlier stuff, if you will. It doesn’t have much of Jake’s vocals, but his overall songwriting is much sharper here.

Maximalism may not have been written by Jake (Save for two songs), but it is a really fun album with a bunch of different stuff. It’s dumb— Incredibly fucking dumb, but that sort of becomes the appeal if you can just enjoy it for what it is. I hated it back in the day for that very reason, but I’ve come around on it a lot since I suffered through Amaranthe wanting to be taken seriously as an actual metal band. It also has the best distribution of the three vocalists out of the first four albums, which helps a ton especially with how their parts in the structures did have quite a bit of variety. It’s also the last album of theirs with good electronics, as Helix would for some fucking reason go with far more awful sounding synths when Maximalism arguably had their best ones. Doesn’t help that this is their last fun album, with the soul of that being sucked out since they realized that they would have better success shedding basically every niche and just making stuff for arenas and “hey, metal”. The Nexus was incredible at having metal sprinkled throughout the pop, and that’s incredibly refreshing compared to especially Manifest and onward. I don’t think Helix is the worst, as it has quite a bit of variety and good stuff here and there, but it was the beginning of the end.

I will say that Nils is a good replacement for Jake, especially with their voices and vocal roles being so different.

The first album is for sure quite flawed, but as a debut album it does a good job of showing what the band are about and establishing a sound. I don't really find many flaws with The Nexus honestly, I really enjoy every song on that album. I appreciate opinions can differ on that though.

A few songs on Massive Addictive have grown on me over the years, and also Maximalism, but it's really just a handful of tracks on each album. It's tough to pinpoint why, but the sound just doesn't capture me in the same way the first two albums do. I don't know if it just feels a bit too slick/commercial.

Helix I got nothing out of. I don't like that album at all.

Manifest I thought Viral and Archangel were strong songs, but the rest... I honestly can't even remember them. Except Boom!1 which is just strange.

New album I will listen to, but I'm not expecting much. It's nothing against the people who have come in to replace Jake and Andy, both are quite okay, but only a few songs per album really click for me these days (Helix excepted, where I literally didn't like any of them).

 

[DE4life]

Listening to Revelations again...



I said I think it has the strongest chorus of any DF song, but it isn't just that... it basically has two pre-choruses which build the intensity to the actual chorus. You have what I'd consider the initial pre-chorus starting at 01:02 and going to 01:12, and at that point 01:13 - 01:24 sounds like the chorus, but it's actually more like a second pre-chorus before the actual chorus hits at 01:25. I don't know if I've heard another song that builds up to the chorus in that way. You can't really call 01:02 - 01:25 an extended pre-chorus because the two parts sound different, and 01:13 - 01:24 isn't part of the main chorus is there's a distinctive shift when the chorus actually begins. Just a very cool way of building the intensity across multiple stages, where all parts flow seamlessly together.

 

[Xpyro125]

The first album is for sure quite flawed, but as a debut album it does a good job of showing what the band are about and establishing a sound. I don't really find many flaws with The Nexus honestly, I really enjoy every song on that album. I appreciate opinions can differ on that though.

I don’t have too many complaints personality (Save for Andy’s lack of vocal time, his repeated lyrical motifs which just don’t work for me), but I have to be in the mood for it because of just how sugary sweet it is sonically.

A few songs on Massive Addictive have grown on me over the years, and also Maximalism, but it's really just a handful of tracks on each album. It's tough to pinpoint why, but the sound just doesn't capture me in the same way the first two albums do. I don't know if it just feels a bit too slick/commercial.

Yeah, I definitely think that’s the different feel they have overall compared to the first two— That “bigger budget b-movie” feel. Maximalism is a lot easier to pinpoint why, since it wasn’t written by Jake, the not quite united feel (Maybe that’s just me knowing a lot of the band politics that went down from The Nexus to Jake’s departure), it being more of the party hard album than a b-movie album lyrically, etc.

Helix I got nothing out of. I don't like that album at all.

The singles sucked, but Dream and Unified in particular are pretty nice. The latter has a more power metal feel (Like Nils’ band, Dynazty, rather than something like Sabaton), so you might like that.

Manifest I thought Viral and Archangel were strong songs, but the rest... I honestly can't even remember them. Except Boom!1 which is just strange.

I like Die and Wake Up, but that’s about it. I love the two Henrik-centered songs from Maximalism and Helix, but Boom!1 just fucking sucks. I know it’s absolutely in on the joke, but the joke isn’t funny.

New album I will listen to, but I'm not expecting much. It's nothing against the people who have come in to replace Jake and Andy, both are quite okay, but only a few songs per album really click for me these days (Helix excepted, where I literally didn't like any of them).

I think it might be more of a songwriting thing as a whole. Olof’s guitarwork absolutely changed, and while I’m not really huge on any of it anymore, it just does nothing for me particularly Manifest onward. There’s been a big focus on Elize on Massive Addictive (Which I didn’t mind because of Jake’s writing and ethos still being there) and Helix onward. I quite liked Henrik’s addition to the band, save for his persona on social media which was just bad (Seriously, why the fuck would you lash out at people and basically say ‘nuh uh’ to people who’ll say “I like it, but it’s not great” at best), and I think his vocals worked really well for the pop metal sound. It’s been nice to actually see him be him with his family though, at least. Nils is also pretty great with his power metal vocals contrasting with Elise’s. I’m glad that they knew that much immediately, rather than having him just trying to take Jake’s niche of harmonizing with her perfectly.

I’ll probably add more to this once I’m done with work, my break’s just about up. Either way, The Catalyst has been just as boring as Manifest so far.