Notable Release to Come 2013

the true queensryche - some kind of album

fakeryche - F U
Just out of curiosity... in your mind, which version is the true version and which is the fake?

Greg, you need to post up some good prog recos brother. I like this sub-genre, but not enough to actively seek out and vet the gold from the mold. :loco:
Happily. I'll create a thread sometime tonight or tomorrow, with some recommendations for both Prog and Power.
 
Actually, I think Geoff's new songs is every bit as good... which is to say, they're both average at best.

To me, Geoff Tate is Queensryche. For me, it was always about his voice. Even if DeGarmo was still around, I wouldn't view a non-Tate Queensryche as the true Queensryche. However, to remove the two primary songwriters, who were also the two lead players, and leave behind three guys who were mostly only complimentary to what Queensryche was and call that the true Queensryche is something I couldn't disagree more with. I get that Tate comes off as douche and most fans can't stand the guy anymore... but he is Queensryche. Regardless, I think we both agree this argument is pointless, as none of these guys, collectively or individually, has recorded an ounce of music in twenty years fit for human consumption.
 
As big of a waste of time listening to recent Queensryche albums is, discussing the state of the band on the internet is an even bigger waste.
 
I honestly can't believe that anyone likes Queensrÿche.

Literally, I do not hold belief in this particular concept.
 
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Actually, I think Geoff's new songs is every bit as good... which is to say, they're both average at best.

To me, Geoff Tate is Queensryche. For me, it was always about his voice. Even if DeGarmo was still around, I wouldn't view a non-Tate Queensryche as the true Queensryche. However, to remove the two primary songwriters, who were also the two lead players, and leave behind three guys who were mostly only complimentary to what Queensryche was and call that the true Queensryche is something I couldn't disagree more with. I get that Tate comes off as douche and most fans can't stand the guy anymore... but he is Queensryche. Regardless, I think we both agree this argument is pointless, as none of these guys, collectively or individually, has recorded an ounce of music in twenty years fit for human consumption.
well ok

there are imo a couple of problems with saying that geoff tate "is" queensryche because of his voice:

1) rockenfield, wilton and jackson are all founding members of queensryche, tate is not. this is kind of like if bruce dickinson would have quit and started his own iron maiden back in 1993 -- totally absurd. sure maiden didn't do so well without bruce but that doesn't change the fact he's not a founding member and isn't the band by himself -- he was just a really good singer and writer.

2) he's lost like 95% of his voice and can barely even fake it anymore, so who really cares if "his voice" is the signature of queensryche when he can't even approximate it anymore?

also, to me it is irrelevant whether tate's new songs are good or not because they were all written and played by outside writers. they could be the best god damn songs in the world but they will never ever be queensryche, because they are not written by members of queensryche. i think they are shit; sometimes catchy shit, but it is still faceless radio-rock, really poorly performed and recorded (that guitar sound makes me cringe and why are all the guitars so sloppily played? oh wait, they've got kelly "oven mitts" grey, never mind)

i mean, honestly, are you telling me that something written by jason slater and a random argentinian guy (with lyrics by tate) and recorded by random members of QUIET RIOT and FORBIDDEN is more queensryche than an album where rockenfield, jackson and wilton sat down as a band and collectively wrote and recorded? because that's some pretty wack logic if you ask me


the deciding factor though is that it's obvious that tate doesn't care. tate wants to be queensryche for one reason only and that is money. he very obviously has no regard for art, class, honesty or anything anymore. have you HEARD the bonus track re-recordings from "F U" (real classy again there, geoff)? drum machine, no-effort POD guitar tone, some of the most laughable vocals ever -- with the original vocal tracks spliced in to save face where he couldn't even fake it. i'd be so fucking ashamed if i had anything to do with this hollow wreck of a man

i will take a bunch of guys trying to write something honest and relevant any day over a rush-job mess of studio musicians led by a washed up wife-beating alcoholic whose only claim to fame is having been able to hit a fuckload of notes in the 80's.

 
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1) rockenfield, wilton and jackson are all founding members of queensryche, tate is not. this is kind of like if bruce dickinson would have quit and started his own iron maiden back in 1993 -- totally absurd. sure maiden didn't do so well without bruce but that doesn't change the fact he's not a founding member and isn't the band by himself -- he was just a really good singer and writer.
Tate is not only an original member (unlike Dickinson), but he's the most defining aspect of their sound. He is likely the reason we even know of Queensryche.

2) he's lost like 95% of his voice and can barely even fake it anymore, so who really cares if "his voice" is the signature of queensryche when he can't even approximate it anymore?
I saw them three years ago. They did a special one off where they played all of Rage for Order. I'd say he was at 70% that night. And 70% of Tate is still better than 99% of all other vocalists. That said, I understand... he will never do anything again vocally worth hearing.

also, to me it is irrelevant whether tate's new songs are good or not because they were all written and played by outside writers. they could be the best god damn songs in the world but they will never ever be queensryche, because they are not written by members of queensryche. i think they are shit; sometimes catchy shit, but it is still faceless radio-rock, really poorly performed and recorded (that guitar sound makes me cringe and why are all the guitars so sloppily played? oh wait, they've got kelly "oven mitts" grey, never mind)
Those songs can still contain the voice, melodies and lyrics of Queensryche.

i mean, honestly, are you telling me that something written by jason slater and a random argentinian guy (with lyrics by tate) and recorded by random members of QUIET RIOT and FORBIDDEN is more queensryche than an album where rockenfield, jackson and wilton sat down as a band and collectively wrote and recorded? because that's some pretty wack logic if you ask me
Let's be fair, Rockenfeld and Jackson are completely interchangeable. If either of those guys were swapped out, no one would even notice. They don't write and they don't have distinctive playing styles that are components of the QR sound. So what we're really talking about is Wilton; Queensryche's 3rd most important member, composing with Parker Lundgren and Todd La Torre. To my mind, arguing that the Wilton, Lungren and La Torre have any claim to the be the "true QR", is equally as preposterous. Regardless, such a title is dubious at best. We're talking about a band who hasn't released a song worth hearing in 20 years.

the deciding factor though is that it's obvious that tate doesn't care. tate wants to be queensryche for one reason only and that is money.
This makes Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield different how? If all they cared about was the music, they could have easily carried on as Rising West. They too realized that without the name, without the singer, and without the lead guitar player, no one would give a shit.

If Heavy Metal had a Commissioner, all these jagoffs would be forbidden to use the name.
 
Tate is not only an original member
that's cool, but he isn't, though. look it up.


I saw them three years ago. They did a special one off where they played all of Rage for Order. I'd say he was at 70% that night.
he was passable then but he's decayed so, so quickly since. so very quickly. listen to that, i dare you


Let's be fair, Rockenfeld and Jackson are completely interchangeable. If either of those guys were swapped out, no one would even notice. They don't write and they don't have distinctive playing styles that are components of the QR sound. So what we're really talking about is Wilton; Queensryche's 3rd most important member, composing with Parker Lundgren and Todd La Torre. To my mind, arguing that the Wilton, Lungren and La Torre have any claim to the be the "true QR", is equally as preposterous. Regardless, such a title is dubious at best. We're talking about a band who hasn't released a song worth hearing in 20 years.
i disagree, i really think rockenfield has a highly distinctive style. jackson i don't have a lot of opinions about tbh.

but it doesn't even matter whether they've ever written songs, because the fact of the matter is in 1981 or whenever, four guys named rockenfield, jackson, degarmo and wilton formed a band, and therefore it is and will remain their band

taking rockenfield as an example again, if you've been the drummer of the band since the literal high school beginnings thirty-odd years ago then you are not "interchangeable", THAT is a preposterous claim if i've ever seen one

sure rockenfield doesn't have writing credits for anything important but that doesn't mean he hasn't written the drum arrangements for every queensryche song ever. you don't generally get writing credits for stuff like that in the Music Business -- that doesn't mean it isn't meaningful. it's an important aspect of "the sound".


EDIT: also, jackson and rockenfield do have writing credits on the new album, as well as wilton. is it queensryche now that 75% of the original members are writing?
 
that's cool, but he isn't, though. look it up.
I just did. While he may have been the final member to officially join, he is the only singer Queensryche has ever had. By any reasonable standard, the first singer to join the band is an original member. Hell, he was performing with them before they were even known as Queensryche. And it was the demo with his vocals that got them signed.

he was passable then but he's decayed so, so quickly since. so very quickly. listen to that, i dare you
I do not accept this dare. I completely acknowledge that he is way past his sell by date.

i disagree, i really think rockenfield has a highly distinctive style.
I don't, and I don't think many drummers do. If Scott Rockenfield joined Judas Priest and someone played you the new Priest album, you wouldn't think to yourself, "Hey, is that Rockenfield on drums?" More to the point, if QR replaced Rockenfield with someone comparable without you knowing, you likely wouldn't listen to the new QR disc and think to yourself, "Did QR switch drummers?" And even if you might, 95% of fans would not.

but it doesn't even matter whether they've ever written songs, because the fact of the matter is in 1981 or whenever, four guys named rockenfield, jackson, degarmo and wilton formed a band, and therefore it is and will remain their band
I agree that it is their band, in that it is their legal right to call it QR, but it is not their sound. The two primary ingredients to that sound are gone.

taking rockenfield as an example again, if you've been the drummer of the band since the literal high school beginnings thirty-odd years ago then you are not "interchangeable", THAT is a preposterous claim if i've ever seen one
I disagree. See above.

EDIT: also, jackson and rockenfield do have writing credits on the new album, as well as wilton. is it queensryche now that 75% of the original members are writing?
At best, it's 60% (3 of 5 original members). Ultimately, I would argue, it's more like 20%, as I would attribute 80% of the QR sound to Tate/DeGarmo. And given that Wilton has aged poorly as a player, it's probably more like 10%. Actually, now that his writing is being influenced by a different singer, it's probably more like 5%. And when you consider the negative toll that being surrounded by partners like Slater, Gray and Lundgren, it's actually more like 2%. Yeah, 2%. That sounds about right.
 
And even if you might, 95% of fans would not.
okay so ask yourself this then: if you played a tape to 95% of fans of the recent tateryche disaster and the latest queensryche concert, do you think most folks would correctly pick out which one is tate?

And given that Wilton has aged poorly as a player
really? have you seen him (and the rest of the band) absolutely nailing everything lately?