Nwobhm

[Wyvern]

On TMG I started a discussion about this and I want it here too. Is an itch I wanted to scartch long ago.

We all know what NWOBHM stands for but what about it as a sound? The case in discussion was Def Leppard (first three albums) but I want to start from this point (and we can extend it further of course):

Venom
Def Leppard
Iron Maiden

Do these bands sound alike? IMO they don't, so we can't classify NWOBHM as sound but as chronological movement.

Fire at will

 

[Jean-Pierre]

Whatever you like, but I must say - NWOBHM is the greatest "scene" of all time. Easily. Almost all material that came out in that era was top quality, all great stuff.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

AngelWitch, Tygers of Pan Tang (or whatever lol )etc... alot of obscure bands that mostly thrash fans know because of Metallica and other Thrash bands from the 80's mentioning in interviews... would Motorhead be in that category?

 

[Greeno]

I don't think the NWOBHM was a "sound", it was a movement or a scene. Just like 70's punk, a bunch of bands comming along at the same time feeding off of eachother and trying to be different than the music of that time. I think any good scene is like that, bands that are similar but not alike.

 

[delize]

I think Greeno's explanation is pretty correct. The same sound does apply to most of the NWOBHM bands, but I would say it's a chronological movement rather than just based on sound alone.

 

[Wicked Child]

Never thought of it as a "sound",really. More as a "scene". If anything about the sound, most of the bands sounded very raw and rough around the edges and quite to the point at the beginning, but that's mostly because of tight budget. Afterall, these were mostly teenagers and their little garage bands.

 

[Hawk]

It was a scene! But it is important to remember it was also a scene defined by geography. It was the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.

That an Swedish band like the EF. band was labeled as a NWOBHM band had to do with the fact that they had become part of the UK scene.

As for the sound of the NWOBHM; yes, Def Leppard, Venom and Iron Maiden don't sound alike. But I would say thats selective sampling. Def Leppart was one of the most, if not the most, commercial sounding bands in the scene. And citing their second and even third album as a possible example of the NWOBHM sound is just rubbish. By that time they were oriented to the American market and had nothing to do with the UK anymore. Neither sound wise nor fan base.

Venom at the time was the most extreme band in the UK and perhaps the world! Thus although both bands were geographically part of the NWOBHM, they did not have the NWOBHM signature sound.

However, when you compare bands like Weapon, Blitzkrieg, The Handsome Beast, Fist, A II Z, Aragorn, Sledgehammer and Holocaust, then you will hear a likeness in sound across the board. And 90% of the 79/80/81 NWOBHM bands would have a sound close to this. It was as sound with new energy and more speed, inspired by the 70s punk scene. When you compare the sound of the first, white label, album from Diamond Head with the singles from the bands mentioned above you will hear a definite closeness in sound.

This was also true for Angel Witch who sounded a lot more polished on their debut album. However when you hear their singles, EP and sampler album tracks you will hear a much rawer heavier sound.

The same goes for Hellenbach, on their album they sounded like a Van Halen clone. But their single "Out To Get You" is in sound closer to Sledgehammer than Van Halen.

So in short I am saying that there indeed was a signature sound in the NWOBHM but it existed for most bands for a short time. In the early beginnings when you hear the first single or EP of a band you can hear it.

Later some bands moved away from that sound. Another good example is Vardis. Their debut [live!] album "100MPH" is raw and fast. Then later they [or rather singer/guitarist Steve Zodiac] went for a more bluesy sound.

And then there's the DIY mentality these bands had. For instance; In their early beginning Angel Witch used to gig for free and build up a following that way.

So in short I define a NWOBHM band by the following characteristic

1) Part of the UK scene in the 1979/80/81s
2) The DIY mentality
3) A signature sound defined by a lot more energy and speed than people
were used to from a heavy metal band at the time.

For 3) it is important to remember to put things in a historical perspective. If a trOO black metal kid would hear say, the Holocaust album, he would whine that there are no fast songs on the album.

But I remember being blown away by the speed of Weapon's "Set the Stage Alight" single in 1980! The rawness, speed and energy of that song was unheard of in the 70s. Thus for me the NWOBHM took place in a short timespan of barely 3 years. 1979, 1980 and the earlier part of 1981. After 1981 the scene fell apart.

He he. Those were the days man! Going to the UK to get yourself some good singles! When I think of all the gigs I could have seen!

It was the second coming of the UK in the Hard Rock/Heavy Metal scene. After the first explosion with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Budgie and Led Zeppelin. I am still waiting for the third explosion a sort of NWOBHM part II

I don't think I manifest itself in my lifetime

 

[Wyvern]

Hawk's answer goes pretty much accordingly with Brits posted in this thread on TMG.

Also it confirms that is not a sound per se even if today we like a band like Wolf because it does sound like a NWOBHM band

@ UM: I will not consider Motorhead a NWOBHM because they started in 1976 so they were forerunners or inspiration. Easily found in bands like Tank, Venom, Warfare. Same goes for Judas Priest (obviously for Thin Lizzy and Black Sabbath).
It is also true that some older bands change their sound a bit towards 1982 to cope with the "invasion".

 

[Hawk]

Hawk's answer goes pretty much accordingly with Brits posted in this thread on TMG.

Hmm thats nice to hear. It might be due to the fact that I lived and breathed the NWOBHM when it happened. Btw, I hate to sound like a fucking nOOb but what the hell is TMG???

Also it confirms that is not a sound per se even if today we like a band like Wolf because it does sound like a NWOBHM band

Right! The NWOBHM sound was the way some bands sounded at a certain time in their career. Perhaps it had something to do with the shitty production they got!

To say it otherwise: The signature NWOBHM sound is mostly the result of historic determined circumstances

 

[Ayeka]

Wyvern's first impression was spot on, and Hawk nailed the rest of it. Well done chaps

It's an interesting scence to look back on after all this time, especially for someone like me who wasn't even born when it was happening. For starters, it's been horrifically exploited. How many NWOBHM compilations are out there? How many bands get lumped into the category even though they started years before or after the period? How many bands do you think got lumped in afterwards because somebody noticed "Christ, this band started in 1980, better call 'em NWOBHM!" even though they might've just been farting in their garage at the time? How many of the bands seem to be able to reform and get peoples' interest for no reason other than that they were part of the NWOBHM?

I'd've loved to have been knocking around at the time to be a part of what was evidentally a very exciting time. But this exploitation causes it to lose some of its dignity in my eyes

 

[SickBoy]

Btw, I hate to sound like a fucking nOOb but what the hell is TMG???

I think Wyv refers to The Metal Gospel board.
Nothing nOObish 'bout it...

 

[Hawk]

I think Wyv refers to The Metal Gospel board.
Nothing nOObish 'bout it...

Checking it out...

 

[Wyvern]

I think Wyv refers to The Metal Gospel board.
Nothing nOObish 'bout it...

Indeed, is Angelwitch73 forum kinda of homebase for me since I signed there before UMOS. Is also very cozy and they trust me enough to set me as a mod there

Check it Hawk you'll like it.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Hawk's answer goes pretty much accordingly with Brits posted in this thread on TMG.

Also it confirms that is not a sound per se even if today we like a band like Wolf because it does sound like a NWOBHM band

@ UM: I will not consider Motorhead a NWOBHM because they started in 1976 so they were forerunners or inspiration. Easily found in bands like Tank, Venom, Warfare. Same goes for Judas Priest (obviously for Thin Lizzy and Black Sabbath).
It is also true that some older bands change their sound a bit towards 1982 to cope with the "invasion".

So in other words they are considered the grandaddies of Thrash and NWOBHM? ... also back in the 80's when i used to read magazines like Circus and Hit Parader they always seemed to describe Judas Priest as a NWOBHM band...

 

[Greeno]

It was a scene! But it is important to remember it was also a scene defined by geography. It was the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.

Not trying to be a smartass in any way but aren't scenes always defined by geography? Isn't that what makes a scene a scene? When it's not defined by geography it's then a genre right? Genre's are born out of scenes... like:

the Bay area thrash scene
the Seattle scene
the LA glam metal scene
the NY punk scene


A few bands in the same area start feeding off eachother... a bit of a similar sound, style, look... whatever. And then that style spreads around a country (or the world) and it's then a genre.

This is how I've always thought it worked. Does that sound right to everyone?

 

[Hawk]

Not trying to be a smartass in any way but aren't scenes always defined by geography? Isn't that what makes a scene a scene? When it's not defined by geography it's then a genre right? Genre's are born out of scenes... like:

the Bay area thrash scene
the Seattle scene
the LA glam metal scene
the NY punk scene


A few bands in the same area start feeding off eachother... a bit of a similar sound, style, look... whatever. And then that style spreads around a country (or the world) and it's then a genre.

This is how I've always thought it worked. Does that sound right to everyone?

In general I would agree with you.

But what about the metal scene in general? Don't bands across the world feed on each other?

I suppose "the metal scene" in general" might be a wordplay on my side. When I think of what I was trying to say was that this was true especially for the NWOBHM. I wanted to delimit the discussion to the UK because the are people that would drag any popular band at the time into the NWOBHM scene. And I wanted to make clear that Def Leppard had lost any contact with their UK roots if they ever had any at all. Hello America!!

So what do you think, is there an international metal scene Greeno? It somehow does not sound right to me.

 

[Greeno]

In general I would agree with you.

But what about the metal scene in general? Don't bands across the world feed on each other?

I suppose "the metal scene" in general" might be a wordplay on my side. When I think of what I was trying to say was that this was true especially for the NWOBHM. I wanted to delimit the discussion to the UK because the are people that would drag any popular band at the time into the NWOBHM scene. And I wanted to make clear that Def Leppard had lost any contact with their UK roots if they ever had any at all. Hello America!!

So what do you think, is there an international metal scene Greeno? It somehow does not sound right to me.

An international metal scene sounds right but that still sound like a genre to me. I tend to think of a scene as being more local and once more bands around the word start to feed off of eachother it's stepped up to a style or genre. Like the American bands that picked up on the NWOBHM sound, I would not consider them part of the NWOBHM scene but part of the genre.

I guess the words can at times be interchangeable.

In you opinion when does a scene become a genre?

 

[Hawk]

An international metal scene sounds right but that still sound like a genre to me. I tend to think of a scene as being more local and once more bands around the word start to feed off of eachother it's stepped up to a style or genre. Like the American bands that picked up on the NWOBHM sound, I would not consider them part of the NWOBHM scene but part of the genre.

I guess the words can at times be interchangeable.

In you opinion when does a scene become a genre?

Mmm... Thats a good one

I would say when there is recognizable signature sound a scene can become a genre. That is, when the audience picks up the albums form the bands in that scene.

When people hear that sound they will say: "Thats sounds like a NWOBHM band" or "That sounds like a Bay Area band" you have a discernible genre.

Mind you, that still would not be enough for me to classify the band as such. Thats why I put so much emphases on the location. A band may sound like a Bay Area thrash band but when it is located in say, The Netherlands it is not a Bay Area band. it will only sound like one.

You see the NWOBHM and Bay Area are family names of the greater family of metal. Genus and differentia! While the individual members of the family can be easy localized [UK or Bay Area] the family as such is international. So I think we have a few very valuable local scenes and the bigger all encompassing international metal scene.

For instance the reverberations of the Dimebag murder were felt in the international scene. Although Dimebag had his roots in Texas he was an international metal star and thus the metal scene as a whole was touched by his death.

Am I making any sense here?

 

[Ayeka]

So in other words they are considered the grandaddies of Thrash and NWOBHM? ... also back in the 80's when i used to read magazines like Circus and Hit Parader they always seemed to describe Judas Priest as a NWOBHM band...

That drives home what idiots they are

 

[ElectricWiz]

The fact that NWOBHM was so broad was part, at least, of what was so cool about it. I was in my early teens at that time and I had a pretty narrow view of metal. It was MY music, but if wasn't Maiden or something archetypically heavy like that, I thought it was poser and all that. I used to read all the foreign mags (when I could find 'em) and I would think, "What the fuck are they putting a story about Tygers of Pan Tang next to Venom for?" I warmed up to most all of it though, and eventually really appreciated all that was happening there at that time, most especially the fact that Europeans seemed to be able to listen to such a wide range of metal without feeling all boxed into a clique, as happens in America I think.

Incidentally, though it is short, on the Early Years DVD is a great little documentary about NWOBHM (focusing on Maiden of course). It gives you a better idea, I think, of what the scene was really like. I had all these almost mystical ideas about what it was like "over there"....but lo and behold, truth be told, it was just a bunch of guys playing air guitar, the fans I mean. If you've watched the doc you know what I'm talking about. Ha. But that makes it even cooler somehow. Fucking metal man, such a large part of my life.....and NWOBHM is a large part of the genre.