obama puts the heat on mcpain

[Kenso]

I agree, I don't believe I was clear in that I was iffy on the late term stuff, not the early ones.

just to clear it up i wasnt trying to contrast your post but just reflect my own perspective while making it clear what the topic was by quoting you.

 

[Bryant]

I don't dslike Obama, but I could have beat McCain for POTUS.

As poor of a job as "W" has done, I can understand America wanting a change, but people should be careful what they wish for. "W" has already ran the deficit up to astronomical proportions due to two wars etc. However, I have a bad feeling the Obama Presidency will be a big "tax and spend" administration and things will not improve. I hope I am wrong about this, but my gut feeling says that Obama will be rough on the economy growing. WIll the economy stop the downward spiral ? Yes, but I think that wil be simply market corrections due to lower fuel prices and the housing market working its way back upward. I don't think Obama has sound economic policies....... but then again, that is what advisors are for.


Bryant

 

[nailz]

I don't see really any reason for abortion. Even in a case of rape, can't that woman just give the child up for adoption? How typical of the way we think in America. The innocent always seem to pay for the sins of the guilty. How many people are dying to have children that aren't able and we have thousands of babies murdered by abortion every year. Murder is murder no matter what the pro-choice people say. Besides, everyone knows that Planned Parenthood is the Democratic Party's cash cow.

According to the law in Arkansas, unmarried couples who want to adopt are not legally allowed. Hetero or Homo. With so many children already up for adoption, including the hefty price tag associated, how can that be a law?

Also, how many children have you adopted?

ALSO, have you even remotely considered the psychological effect on a woman who is carrying the child of a man who RAPED her? That alone has got to be a huge mindfuck. It'd be like having to relive the experience every day for 9 months. I'm sorry, I don't consider stem cells to be a human being.

 

[No-Mercy]

why are Americans flying 6000 miles to adopt?

strange isnt it? i dont know why either, i was just offering up some food for thought on the issue.

i personally believe in a womans right to choose and that abortion should remain legalized in, (this being my own number), the first 13 weeks of pregnancy....which is the end of the first trimester. by then i believe the woman should know and have been able to decide her course of action.

i think late-term are horrible. the only reason for that i could understand would be if there was some sort of complication and the woman faced serious health risks if she continued the pregnancy. other than that, i think it should be done within 13 weeks.

further, and this may be a ridiculous request, i think there should be a monitor system. so if a woman has 3 abortions in a year, that is documented and there might be some action taken to ensure she is not just using it for birth control. this way you could tell if a woman was using it for a just reason, an accident that happened (or rape), rather than a last-resort measure because she just loves sex.
probably alot of problems that may prevent that from happening, legally anyway.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

and by innocent, you wouldnt include that victim of rape? unless you are applying that "those women who wont just give the child to adoption" are the guilty that are making the innocent pay.

unless these few sentences of yours have nothing to do with each other and are just terrible placed next to each other.

-btw im not hardcore one way or another on this issue, i fall somewhere in the middle and leave the majority of the decision making to women...not implying im pro-choice, but i feel if anyone knows the morality of it, it would be the person carrying the child.

so on that note, im curious about the adoption argument im seeing. because, to my knowledge, it is not hard to find foster kids who need a permanent residency and family. i mean...i havent known anyone who has wanted to adopt and hasnt been able to find a child. for that reason, i might suggest that we already have a "backlog" (terrible term i know but it fits) of children waiting for adoption...so im not sure adoption is really a solid option unless those arguing for adoption are willing to admit the % of kids actually adopted vs. those eligible for adoption. think many would be surprised how many are never adopted

I, by no means would ever insinuate a woman is guilty in rape. And, I resent you implicating that. The douche bag who does the crime is who I meant. That is the sin by which an innocent unborn child has to die to pay. But, for the amount of people who wish for children and can't have them, out of evil can come some good by giving the child up for adoption.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

According to the law in Arkansas, unmarried couples who want to adopt are not legally allowed. Hetero or Homo. With so many children already up for adoption, including the hefty price tag associated, how can that be a law?

Also, how many children have you adopted?

ALSO, have you even remotely considered the psychological effect on a woman who is carrying the child of a man who RAPED her? That alone has got to be a huge mindfuck. It'd be like having to relive the experience every day for 9 months. I'm sorry, I don't consider stem cells to be a human being.

I was lucky enough to able to conceive a daughter with my wife. BTW, what kind of a mindfuck would it be to know you were about to be killed? Watch an abortion be performed as I have in a film when I was in high school as a junior through an x-ray and see the child move to farthest area of the womb before the blades chop this poor child to pieces. Then they showed the drum where body pieces were thrown away like trash.

 

[No-Mercy]

I, by no means would ever insinuate a woman is guilty in rape. And, I resent you implicating that. The douche bag who does the crime is who I meant. That is the sin by which an innocent unborn child has to die to pay. But, for the amount of people who wish for children and can't have them, out of evil can come some good by giving the child up for adoption.

which is always why i asked, right after, whether those 2 sentences were just oddly placed next to each other. some people do actually feel the woman holds some responsibility for it, no matter how wrong that can be.

i personally feel that thewoman is the innocence, the rapist is the guilty, and the pregnancy is the creation of those two...therefore leaving the ultimate decision with the woman.

just a thought, sorry to offend...you understand because of the proximity if your points that i misread it into that implication.

 

[freakchylde]

Anyway...my first thought was...why are Americans flying 6000 miles to adopt?

Simple answer...less bureaucracy in other countries in regards to adoption. The red tape here makes it less desirable to adopt an American child because of the difficulty in doing so.

 

[kittybeast]

Watch an abortion be performed as I have in a film when I was in high school as a junior through an x-ray

How old are you? and where did you go to school? It seems that we cannot even get schools to teach kids about safe sex, let alone get them condoms....and yet you've watched a video in high school???

I have a coworker who is 37- she has 3 kids w/ 3 diff. fathers. Oldest is now 21. Her youngest 16, is sexually active. The mother is hispanic and Catholic and says she will not allow her daughter to go on birth control because SHE SHOULDN'T BE SEXUALLY ACTIVE. Well imo the argument isn't whether or not she SHOULD be .... the fact is that she is. Here we are 7 months later after having this conversation and guess what..... yep, she's pregnant. This seemed totally strange to me considering the mother had her first child around the same age.....wouldn't you want your children to "not make the same mistakes you did"?!?!!?


*I should add that I think the girl chose to get pregnant as a way out of her house and that a baby will miraculously bring her life in order.

 

[No-Mercy]

im still in high school, and our teachers are not even supposed to be able to talk to us about abortion, even our health teachers.
they can talk about safe sex, but cant give us tips on that regard because it is considering promoting sex...

not everyone is going to agree on abortion, but we can all agree that there needs to be better instruction from both teachers and parents as well as more opportunistic safety measures to try and decrease the number of situations where abortion may need to be or is a consideration

 

[Pellaz]

Citation on sanctions requested.

Community Reinvestment Act, as amended.

I don't buy it. Not with the proposition. I'd like to know how the Senates health care works before I jumped to this conclusion. I am, admittedly, uneducated on that. Does the government pay doctors or does a private company provide senators with insurance?

It depends.

The Federal workforce, for the most part, has the option of choosing fee-for-service plans, HMOs, or plans like Blue Cross/Blue Shield. We're given a brochure to compare rates and coverage availability for our area, and then make our choice based on those competitive rates.

I mentioned the value of being able to competitively shop for healthcare earlier and the usefulness of the free market, but it got lost somewhere in the thread. (Or maybe another thread?)

So, in essence, the "gouging" everyone keeps referring to is nothing more than repealing the Bush tax cuts. Which, really as far as I'm concerned, is a great idea. Trickle down doesn't work. Rich people are Rich because they tend not to spend money.

Umm, actually, Federal revenue increased after the Bush tax cuts were emplaced, even allowing for population growth.

Also:

The Obama plan pays for these tax cuts by:
cutting spending overall. Obama’s spending cuts include responsibly ending the war in Iraq, limiting payments to high income farmers, cutting subsidies for private plans in Medicare, reforming student loans, cutting earmarks to at least the level they were in 1994, ending no-bid contracting **(my god, how much money would this save, seriously?)**, and phasing out unnecessary and duplicative programs. He will also support pay-as-you-go budget rules and a constitutionally acceptable line-item veto to cut pork-barrel spending.

Many of these are fine ideas...which haven't a prayer of being adopted in a Democratically-controlled Congress.

Again, much will come down to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

He's eating DONUTS with an OLD GUY. Your argument clearly fails.

--And this is germane..................how?

[15% one-time levy on every IRA]
This would be political suicide for anyone right now. Or ever.

Sure it would. But it's been seriously discussed by Democratic leaders.

Note that Argentina has recently taken over ALL retirement plan funds in that country. That was 'only' 30 billion dollars; there's a lot more money in IRAs here, and levying even a small percentage of the total value would net a lot of dough.

% Don't cry for meeeeee, Argentinaa.... %

I have a question for you, as a clear republican. The country suffers from a massive.. nay.. near insurmountable debt created by Bush(es), even after a hefty surplus during the Clinton years. (I'm sure you've seen the graphs ) .. that's hardly a partisan statement ... how do you propose we turn that around without raising taxes?

Implement the 'Fair' Tax as soon as possible.

Okay, I used shorthand there.

Immediately terminate Federal income and employment taxes, amend the US Constitution as needed, and implement a nationwide consumption tax to replace it, along with the prebate sent to every household, etc.

At first, it would be revenue-neutral (meaning the intake would equal the current intake from income taxes). Economic activity would increase sharply for several reasons afterwards, though, including:

• Reduced tax-compliance costs for businesses and individuals
• Elimination of corporate income taxes

That last point is interesting; I see that, as of November 7th, the Democrats are considering lowering the US corporate tax rate from 35% to 30.5%, possibly lower. Since the US has the second-highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, this is encouraging news.

I'm a libertarian, not a Republican, BTW.

 

[nailz]

I was lucky enough to able to conceive a daughter with my wife.

And that's wonderful and I am very happy this is the case. Congratulations, though how late it comes is unknown to me! But as far as I'm concerned, until you walk the walk, you don't get to talk the talk. If you're so concerned with abortion "victims" - I would have thought you would have adopted at least one of those poor innocent unwanted gifts from god.

BTW, what kind of a mindfuck would it be to know you were about to be killed? *gruesome stuff scare tactics*

I wouldn't allow MY child to be aborted by any means, you can be sure of that, nor do I believe that when cells become something, abortion should be legal. However, within the first 2 months, (or round about.. I'd have to look it up), I think multiplying cells are just that, a zygote, not a fetus. I abhor and think all partial birth abortions should be illegal except in life threatening cases. A woman should have the right to choose, but she should be forced to make up her mind before a certain time.

Again, like it or not, outlawing abortion is only going to deny the correct medical procedure to have it done, and increase the sale of metal wire coat hangers, or bottles of champaign and hot tubs.

 

[nailz]

--And this is germane..................how?

I'm a libertarian, not a Republican, BTW.

I don't know much about the guy ... but I found that picture. It was the best I felt like doing for an internet discussion.

Same difference.

I'm somewhat intrigued by the flat tax idea, vs. the "fair" tax idea.

Immediately terminate Federal income and employment taxes, amend the US Constitution as needed, and implement a nationwide consumption tax to replace it, along with the prebate sent to every household, etc.

I, frankly, am ALL about this. I find it grossly appalling that the government takes 33% of my income every year, and no one really complains. This is one place that I am in direct conflict with my party. Though I would shudder to think what the consumption tax would include or how high it would be.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

How old are you? and where did you go to school? It seems that we cannot even get schools to teach kids about safe sex, let alone get them condoms....and yet you've watched a video in high school???

I have a coworker who is 37- she has 3 kids w/ 3 diff. fathers. Oldest is now 21. Her youngest 16, is sexually active. The mother is hispanic and Catholic and says she will not allow her daughter to go on birth control because SHE SHOULDN'T BE SEXUALLY ACTIVE. Well imo the argument isn't whether or not she SHOULD be .... the fact is that she is. Here we are 7 months later after having this conversation and guess what..... yep, she's pregnant. This seemed totally strange to me considering the mother had her first child around the same age.....wouldn't you want your children to "not make the same mistakes you did"?!?!!?


*I should add that I think the girl chose to get pregnant as a way out of her house and that a baby will miraculously bring her life in order.

I'm 39 and I went to Bishop O'Reilly High School in Kingston, PA. It is now no longer a high school as of last year. They showed the 7th through 12 graders when I was there the evil of this procedure. But, I didn't need to be Catholic, which I am, or shown this film to be convinced of my hate for this scourge on mankind. That's for damn sure.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

And that's wonderful and I am very happy this is the case. Congratulations, though how late it comes is unknown to me! But as far as I'm concerned, until you walk the walk, you don't get to talk the talk. If you're so concerned with abortion "victims" - I would have thought you would have adopted at least one of those poor innocent unwanted gifts from god.




I wouldn't allow MY child to be aborted by any means, you can be sure of that, nor do I believe that when cells become something, abortion should be legal. However, within the first 2 months, (or round about.. I'd have to look it up), I think multiplying cells are just that, a zygote, not a fetus. I abhor and think all partial birth abortions should be illegal except in life threatening cases. A woman should have the right to choose, but she should be forced to make up her mind before a certain time.

Again, like it or not, outlawing abortion is only going to deny the correct medical procedure to have it done, and increase the sale of metal wire coat hangers, or bottles of champaign and hot tubs.

Quite the smartass answer from you. BTW, God is spelled with a capital G.

 

[kittybeast]

Wow. PA? Was it a Catholic school? I grew up in CA and we had no such videos or classes. But then again when I was in 7th grade 1977, I wasn't even interested in boys I was more interested in skateboarding and motorcross.... my how times have changed. Now we have 12yr olds having babies.....

 

[Ascension]

Now we have 12yr olds having babies.....

You know there's this big misconception about fear...that you shouldn't have to ever fear anything & be able to live your own life and make decisions without fearing someone telling you it may be wrong. When in actuality fear teaches discipline. Much can be learned from fear.

When God was taken out of our schools & people who brought children into this world started becoming friends instead of parents...what else is there to fear? Where did the discipline go?

 

[Burnout]

When God was taken out of our schools & people who brought children into this world started becoming friends instead of parents...what else is there to fear? Where did the discipline go?

God has no place in schools; if parents want to instill religious values in their children, that's their responsibility not that of the public school system.

 

[No-Mercy]

When God was taken out of our schools & people who brought children into this world started becoming friends instead of parents...what else is there to fear? Where did the discipline go?

are you implying that the absence of religious upbringings and teachings is the the cause for parents taking on a friend-role and the lack of discipline in today's youth?

if so, as one of them, i would strongly disagree.

 

[Kenso]

religion is not needed to instill some moral value in children, and religion has no place in schools because it would go directly against the constitution. i heard sarah palin wanted to teach creationism in schools, which is bs IMO.