Obama's Inauguration /Good Riddance "W"

I get really annoyed when you hear on the news that somebody has got 10 years for shooting a robber thats broke into his house! I mean com'on talk about self defence + family defence thats just plain stupid. As Davis said, defend accordingly.
 
James, reading that was certainly interesting and very applicable. To some extent you have actually changed my mind, believe it or not, although the current situation with guns is not a good one in my opinion. I can see that gun ownership in the right hands can save lives, but I still think they can sometimes be taken away unncecessarily.

Another thing I need to ask regarding the constitution. It states that everyone has the right to bare arms, but in what context? If memory serves me right then it is not as straight forward as that. Anyone care to elabourate?

Joe
 
FWIW, I get rid of the middle ground. I suppose the reason for that is I don't get in many fights. The manner in which I conduct myself in one of these scenarios is thus:

If something is worth fighting for, it is worth dying for, it is worth killing for. If some punk decide to take a swing at me at random, it's not worth killing him. It's not worth killing me. He's made his point and I am in no judgement. However, should a struggle reach a point where it clearly fighting for my life, I will not stop until one of us is dead or until someone stronger than both parties ends it.

abyssofdreams said:
How the hell can somebody think guns have a right to exist in the first place? I don't even get that.

John R. W. Stott, "Many of the happenings of civilized society would not exist if it were not for human sin. A promise is not enough, we need a contract. Doors are not enough, we have to lock and bolt them. The payment of fairs is not enough, we have to be issued the tickets which are punched, inspected and collected. Law and order are not enough, we need the Police to enforce them. All these things and many others to which we have grown accustomed that we have taken them for granted, are due to our sin. We cannot trust each other, we need protection from one another; it is a sorry state of affairs."

Not to go head long in a morality debate about the human condition, but none of us can deny the immorality of the criminal, justified or not. Firearms are a means of protection because of a less than perfect society.

Our end want is the same, a society in which none of these things are needed. But until we reach that day my firearms are staying where they are.
 
Simply by owning a gun and others being aware of this you spread fear and respect that you do not deserve just because of the fact that you own a gun

And you let yourself be controlled by fear to some extent and I understand that americans have been formed that way.

I think it is of no use to debate this any further. If you want to stand on the side that guns serve a purpose and want to defend their existence then there will be always people like me standing on the other side, fighting for a peaceful world. Nobody should need a gun for whatever reason.

How the hell can somebody think guns have a right to exist in the first place? I don't even get that. That's brainwashing your own mind. It seems to be as influencial as religion is. Just because there are some cases where gun-use lead to good things doesn't justify their existance. It is the same with religion. For me guns (or any other weapon) and religion are completely useless and superfluos. As long as this shit dominates hand-in-hand with a capitalistic, egoistic society we live in a sad place to be.

There's people who have arguments supporting death penalty. There's people who have arguments supporting childporn. There's people who have arguments supporting gun ownership. People who support drug use. People who support religion... I could go on and on... I simply don't get it. For me all these people have some sort of brain damage. Maybe it is curable in all cases but that is to find out.

I am idealistic, I am a pacifist and I think liberal. Guns are not peaceful, certainly not an ideal solution for anything and it is not liberal to own one.

On that note I cannot respect people who think that guns should exist.

It has much more to do with preparedness than fear. We have to be prepared to defend ourselves, like it or not - our police aren't required to defend us in our own homes, so who's left? It's not brain damage any more than keeping emergency supplies is paranoia.

Why shouldn't something have a 'right' to exist? On top of their practical uses, guns are damn fun to play with.

I cannot respect people who want to take away my rights and who would rather have me vulnerable under some 'idealistic' nonsense. I would much rather be responsible for myself because I can't count on anyone else to cover my ass. Thinking that gun control can work over here, ignoring all of the failed attempts and the damage they've done, is closer to brain damage - it hasn't worked yet and it's a failed attempt at a solution to a problem that really has less to do with guns than fucked-up people.

Joe, there were many reasons behind preserving the right to bear arms - apart from defense and hunting (the usual self-preservation) they are our last line against tyranny.

Jeff
 
Simply by owning a gun and others being aware of this you spread fear and respect that you do not deserve just because of the fact that you own a gun

And you let yourself be controlled by fear to some extent and I understand that americans have been formed that way.

I think it is of no use to debate this any further. If you want to stand on the side that guns serve a purpose and want to defend their existence then there will be always people like me standing on the other side, fighting for a peaceful world. Nobody should need a gun for whatever reason.

How the hell can somebody think guns have a right to exist in the first place? I don't even get that. That's brainwashing your own mind. It seems to be as influencial as religion is. Just because there are some cases where gun-use lead to good things doesn't justify their existance. It is the same with religion. For me guns (or any other weapon) and religion are completely useless and superfluos. As long as this shit dominates hand-in-hand with a capitalistic, egoistic society we live in a sad place to be.

There's people who have arguments supporting death penalty. There's people who have arguments supporting childporn. There's people who have arguments supporting gun ownership. People who support drug use. People who support religion... I could go on and on... I simply don't get it. For me all these people have some sort of brain damage. Maybe it is curable in all cases but that is to find out.

I am idealistic, I am a pacifist and I think liberal. Guns are not peaceful, certainly not an ideal solution for anything and it is not liberal to own one.

On that note I cannot respect people who think that guns should exist.
first of all, i never said that i think guns SHOULD exist.. i wish all weapons would disappear (i'd happily give up my target shooting pastime if this could happen) ... not going to happen though, and i live in the real world.

second, equating gun ownership in any context whatsoever, even mentioning it in the same sentence... with the inference being that it is equivalent in any way... with child pornography or drug use is ludicrous, spurious, and disingenuous.

third, by law those carrying weapons under CCL license are NOT allowed to let ANYONE in their environment know that they have it. it is strictly illegal to do so. you may only reveal it when engaged in actual self-defense or the defense of others, so your characterization is way off the mark there. no one with a CCL "spreads fear", you don't even know they are carrying until they are using it to save a life.

fourth, violent crime happens in every type of society, not just "egoistic capitalist" societies... just ask the American wife who's husband was knifed to death by a crazed Chinese assailant while in China to attend the Olympics. there are thousands of examples like this.

fifth, you think Americans have been "formed to be controlled by fear?? where do you get this stuff? have you ever even lived here?

i respect your position and your right to be a pacifist. i'm a pacifist myself really, i hate fighting of any sort. war sickens me. crime sickens me too, making me doubly determined to never be it's helpless victim.
 
I get really annoyed when you hear on the news that somebody has got 10 years for shooting a robber thats broke into his house! I mean com'on talk about self defence + family defence thats just plain stupid. As Davis said, defend accordingly.

that is why anyone involved in the legal end of issues like this (police, etc..) will tell you to shoot to kill
 
It's pretty clear how divided some of us are on this issue. I don't expect to change the mind of a total pacifist liberal, so my commenting is over and done with. No hard feelings...:-P I've pretty much said all I've needed to say. It's cool - I respect most opinions even if I disagree strongly with them. It's all good...more cheap ammo for me. :-)

-Joe
 
yeah, not a good idea... if you take a CCL course, your instructor will clearly tell you, do NOT attempt to shoot to wound... aim for center body mass. otherwise you risk the assailant attacking you anyway, even if you manage to hit the knee, which is far harder to hit in a frightened state than the torso.

Point taken. Shoot to kill. :Saint:
 
I get what you anti-gun people are saying. I wish the same thing. As a matter of fact, I personally avoid even killing an ant. If that ant however stings me, I'm going to kill it. Not try to reason with it.:lol:
 
gonna pick up a good concealed carry revolver next....

SP101.gif


Ruger SP101 .357
 
gonna pick up a good concealed carry revolver next....

SP101.gif


Ruger SP101 .357


Nice.

I'm not going for concealed, but my first handgun will be a Sig P229 .40 S&W. Or an HK P2000. I'm leaning toward the Sig.

Good thing with the Sig is I can interchange the .40 S&W to .357 Sig barrel.

-Joe