Official Off Topic Thread

[theVikingR]

Why? There are plenty of non-academic jobs that aren't McDonalds.

Too much emphasis is put on academic qualifications when more should be encouraged to pursue other vocational avenues, if for no other reason than that not every person is suited to work a 9-5 in an office for the rest of their life. Even if they are, some of the greatest entrepreneurs do not have any sort of qualifications to take credit for their abundant success.

In addition, you can't have an economy based solely on tertiary industry and service providing. If you outsource all production, you are at the mercy of those who mine and manufacture for you.

 

[Taliwakker]

ABQ wrote

Why do I know that? Because I am now a hiring manager, and when I see a shit GPA come across my desk, regardless of any projects that person may have worked on, the resume goes to the bottom of the stack.

You have the power to change the system from the inside man...but you don't do you? Shame on you......suppose people over the age of 50 go to the bottom of your "stack" too. Keep oiling that big wheel why don't ya?

 

[ABQShredHead]

That's fine if that is the avenue one wishes to follow. I doubt many people know they want to go that direction in high school though. Say they do; however, do they know what is required to make a go of it in the entrepreneurial world? That's a ton of hard work - self marketing, business knowledge, etc. So they goof of in high school, skip college, and work their business. Then they find out how much work is involved, goof off more, and go nowhere. What's their next step?

Now, some are just natural entrepreneurs and will succeed. Many others think they can have their own business and life will be a cakewalk, much like they treated high school. They will most likely fail.

Now, if a person learns hard work ethics, studying skills, pride of grades, etc., during high school, they can write a free check into college and get the degree of their choice. The study skills they've learned in high school carry through to college (once they get over the partying phase resulting from being on their own for most likely the first time in their life). Get good grades in college, and you're that much more likely to get a foot in the door during your applications for employment.

Here's a case in point: I put out several job ads for a position for a junior engineer. Let's say 90% of the applicants I receive are graduating from their college this spring. Few have "real world" knowledge garnered from internships and co-ops. Others have only their transcripts and non-field-related job experience to offer for me to judge them by. How am I going to rank these resumes? I will first put those with previous field experience in one pile, and those without experience into another. In each stack, I will then rank the applicants. My bases for ranking will be project experience and grades, since that is what I am offered through the resumes. I can tell you right now that those with good grades will be considered for interviews first. Why? Right away, the grades tell me these people are able to dedicate themselves to the task at hand and do the work required to complete a project (or study session).

Does that necessarily tell the whole story? No. It is then my job to get the whole story during the behavior-based interviews. Maybe I'll eventually get down to the 2.3 GPA and schedule an interview. Fact of the matter is, that 2.3 GPA will be on the wrong end of a rather tall stack of papers.

 

[ABQShredHead]

ABQ wrote

You have the power to change the system from the inside man...but you don't do you? Shame on you......suppose people over the age of 50 go to the bottom of your "stack" too. Keep oiling that big wheel why don't ya?

Ha! Anybody who writes their age on a resume needs to buy a book on how to write a resume.

Shame on me for considering a person smart enough to toil their way to good grades? See my example in my last post. I'm going to hire the person I feel shows they can do the job the best. That's what I'm paying them for, in the end. I'm not paying them to slack off and spend their time writing an epic album or operating a side business internet porn site - I'm paying them to engineer my cellular network. Good grades show to me an ability to learn and an ability to apply themselves. Behavioral interviews then help ensure the learning ability is paired with the right attitudes and abilities. Those with higher GPAs, when transcripts are all I have to work with, get the interviews faster than those with lower GPAs.

I take no shame in my practices. They've worked very well for me.

 

[Matt]

Why? There are plenty of non-academic jobs that aren't McDonalds.

.

Labor? No thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't believe how cool Mike LePond looks with his Zappa-esque facial hair

 

[theVikingR]

@ABQShredHead:
We're focusing on different points. I agree of course that when looking at candidates for a job, you want the best qualified to do that job.

My point was that your immediate reaction to someone getting bad grades was that they should be disappointed, which relies on the rather drastic assumption that if you don't get good grades, you are somehow worse off than those who get better grades. This is only really (but not solely) true if you are driven by money/success, or have particular love for a certain academic subject.

You are talking only of material success. I am not an idealistic simpleton who has daft notions that you can live without money, however going to college does not equate to happiness and there is not even a vague correlation to suggest this.

Labor? No thanks.

Yes, when I said "plenty" I of course meant "specifically labor". Interpreting what I wrote as the opposite of what I clearly meant might be an indication you aren't suited for academic activity. Either that or you're a smartass, and no one likes a smartass.

 

[Taliwakker]

ABQ wrote

Behavioral interviews

Maybe its a yank thing...but wtf is a behavioral interview?
Do you put the candidate in a room with non compatible people and observe them over a 24 hr period?
Do you sit down and interview them whilst a work colleague continually turns the heat up every 5 mins....all the time you are playing good cop/bad cop interview style with another co-worker.

I take no shame in my practices. They've worked very well for me.

You do realise iam only extracting the piss....

 

[ABQShredHead]

hahaha. Those are good ideas for "behavioral interviews". I'll have to give them a try on my next round of hiring.

Nah, it's just a bunch of fancy questions you ask the applicants and you dig for real answers that show a clear situation, the actions taken by the person, and the outcome of those actions. More than just asking somebody how many digits of pi they can recite or what book knowledge they may have or what they "may" do in a given situation, it looks into the behaviors a person shows at different times. Like, "tell me about a time you worked on a project where one team member didn't hold up to their commitments" kinds of things. Or "tell me about a time when you had to go against a popular decision"... Psychobabble BS stuff. But it works, for the most part.

 

[Horus]

I can't believe how cool Mike LePond looks with his Zappa-esque facial hair

If I was actually able to pay for stuff I order off ebay, then I'd try my best to get that bass.

Jax, you think Lepond would consider just giving me the bass if I promise to be his best friend?

 

[progmetaldan]

^ I don't know how he could refuse! I can't give you a bass, but will you be my best friend???

 

[Anonymous]

Hell, I'd give LePond a bass if it meant being his best friend.

 

[SilentRealm]

@ your new sig pic mrfast

about that bass.. my god i wish i could afford even the starting price of $500 u.s. to get it.. and that i was a bass player.. that is one beautiful piece of equipment..

about GPA's in the US, what is the highest one can get? for Aus its 7.0 - my GPA atm is 6.0 ( it was 6.5 but I had to put a couple of subjects on the backburner last semester due to some dramas occuring which put my grades down a little bit )

 

[Taliwakker]

when did we start getting GPA's in Aus?

 

[Matt]

about GPA's in the US, what is the highest one can get? for Aus its 7.0 - my GPA atm is 6.0 ( it was 6.5 but I had to put a couple of subjects on the backburner last semester due to some dramas occuring which put my grades down a little bit )

4.0 is the highest but you can have over 4.0 with extra credit and the like.

 

[Fakerofdeath]

4.0 is the highest but you can have over 4.0 with extra credit and the like.

In my High school you can get a 5.00, since Honors and A.P classes count as a 5.00, not a 4.00. It'd be almost impossible though.

 

[HackerX]

when did we start getting GPA's in Aus?

It's a uni thing.

Over here, you can't really match GPA's across subjects/degrees. E.g. a 5 in one degree may be normal, where as say a 5 in engineering makes you a freak (or so say my engineering friends).

Mine has probably dropped below 5 considering I got a 3 for the last subject I did. Just checked, 4.905, damn

More importantly though, I just found out that Arcturus is playing a few shows in Australia, including a show in Brisbane. I am soooooo there! Why didn't anybody tell me this earlier???

 

[SilentRealm]

when did we start getting GPA's in Aus?

^ what Ben said..

true you can't match them across degrees, the point I think is just competing with people in your own area for things like qualifying for a post-grad.

On another topic altogether.. lately I've realised I'm getting old.. I know I'm only 26 (well 27 in a month - there's a scary thought in itself), but for example, carrying bags of groceries up my drive.. today the plastic caused my skin to pinch together and now I have this nasty looking bruise where the capillaries have broken.. I've carried much heavier, much further beforehand and nothing like this has happened..I get cuts and bruises way more easily now than even a year ago.. I dunno what's up with that, but it aint right damnit! For the little bit older forum members, have you had moments where you realise your body is ageing? ( aside from the constant mental reminders we get everyday dealing with teens )

 

[progmetaldan]

More importantly though, I just found out that Arcturus is playing a few shows in Australia, including a show in Brisbane. I am soooooo there! Why didn't anybody tell me this earlier???

If they're coming to Adelaide, I might go check 'em out.

I was heaps annoyed, cos Satyricon recently came through, and even though I don't really like them, Lars K Norberg and Steinar Gundersen from Spiral Architect were playing Bass and Lead Guitar respectively and I wouldve gone just to see them... I didn't even think of it, and then when Lars told me on the SA forum that they were there...

 

[HackerX]

27.03.2007 Adelaide- HQ Complex
29.03.2007 Brisbane- Club Phoenix
30.03.2007 Sydney- Gaelic Club
31.03.2007 Melbourne- The Espy

4 days after my birthday, awesome birthday present