Official Off Topic Thread

[1by4by9]

 

[MetalstormV3.0b]

Man, we suck as life forms.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

You know, no man is an island ABQ. No matter how you want to put the responsibility on the shooter themselves (which you rightly should) there is also the factor of that person being brought up in a way that allowed this to happen. they weren't cared for. they weren't watched out for. they might have been treated poorly. maybe they were ostracized or just never taught morality. who can say at this point. i guarantee it will come up as the investigation proceeds. you can't have everyone wash their hands of blood just because we didn't pull the trigger. we let him do it.

at this point, my guess is it went down like this: the guy gets shafted by the girlfriend. he's feeling really fucked up, he has no one to turn to. he has no one to talk about it with, and doesn't know how to deal with his emotions of loss and rage. he decides to get revenge and make the cause of those feelings go away. he goes and gets a gun. maybe he has it already. this is how they do it on tv afterall, right? he goes and confronts the girl, probably says something like "this is what you get bitch, see what you made me do!?" and kills her. the RA comes down the hall because of the commotion, all "WTF just happened". the shooter turns and sees a witness. bam. he's dead. the shooter has to make his escape so he leaves the building quickly. but he's not satisfied. his crime hasn't erased his pain. he needs to make more people pay. he still has no one to talk about his thoughts with, or about what he's done. he goes to the classroom where maybe her new boyfriend is. he doesn't know who the guy is. maybe he does and he can't have them all watching him kill the kid. so he tries to kill them all. but even now, with blood and death his reality, he's not sated. his pain is too intense, so he kills himself.

think of just how many different times in this idiot's life he could have turned from this path if only people gave him the time of day. we're a bunch of sick fucks really. we don't talk to each other, us humans. we just sit next to each other on the bus, everybody with their ipods blasting, heads down, thinking inwardly. we don't share things because that's perceived as weakness. we isolate ourselves more and more. television reinforces this "we don't talk, we just watch" behavior. we learn to criticize and ridicule others. we take joy in it. american idol. we sensationalize and dramatize the failed relationships of others and of celebrities. we glory in it. britney spears. we are disturbed beyond words, and yet there are humans who indifferently claim no responsibility for the degeneracy they help foster. we as humans create monsters, and then take no responsibility for their actions. Mary Shelley knew exactly what the problem was.

Okay, I have to jump in. Yes, society messes people up. We've somehow managed to build a world that's pretty psychologically damaging to ourselves. But this... come on, man. People get dumped by girlfriends every day. Billions of people go through life with no one to talk to. I'm sure there are people right on this forum who could relate. This guy, or anyone who pulls a stunt like that, obviously has way bigger issues than loneliness and rejection, and no friends to talk to about it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

There's a connection. I've been dumped. It sucks. But i'm not a homicidal maniac. I'm saying there are INTERNAL factors, and there are EXTERNAL factors, and deniers of either one are just that - in denial.

It's so easy to just dismiss that what we do and don't do affects other people. It's really easy, and really destructive. Oh yeah, and convenient. And we love convenient.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Pretty much exactly what I was saying. I call it information overload from our current Information Age we are going through. We have senseless violence shown to us on TV everyday. We do duck our heads down into our iPods. PCs are making personal communication a thing of the past. Everything we do these days is through electronic communication. We are beginning to lose personal touch with our surroundings and falling deeper into our mental spheres. And yet mental health is taboo and being "crazy" is worse than being a leper. So, where do we exit the spiral?

True, Kenneth, no man is an island; however, as we proceed deeper into the Information Age, we begin to become more isolated from those around us. Crying out for help becomes much more difficult as we sink into ourselves.

I look at my office and am appalled that people who sit one cubicle apart would rather send each other e-mails than pop their heads over the Hayworth and talk.

I am in no way arguing a point, but rather offering my observations in life. I recall the times before such accessible communication reduced the need for personal contact. I remember when a "conference call" meant getting on a plane to meet your team in a central location. Nowadays its all electronic mail or phone communications and the personal element is removed. I think that can desensitize individuals to others in their immediate spheres. Coupled with fear of mental issues and the onslaught of various media showing glorified violence (which I'm not condemning - I like to watch Action flicks as much as anybody else), I see where we may be faltering as a society and from where increased violent acts may be stemming.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I agree dude... I'm just saying that this headlong rush into the cyber-future and the way we isolate ourselves from each other is one of the contributing factors for nutcase-creation. when nobody's looking, when nobody's around, people start getting crazy ideas. i mean, if you just look at stuff like Castaway. Sure it's a movie, but it makes a great point- if Tom didn't have that stupid volleyball, he'd have gone insane and killed himself. Or Lord of the Flies. or any other number of conceptual situations in which external contact is severed. I see that as becoming more and more of a problem.

By the way, in case you guys are tired of talking about school shootings, some guy just shot and killed the Mayor of Nagasaki. Japan has banned guns since WW2. Go figure.

 

[ABQShredHead]

I think I shall have an Avery IPA when I get home. And then take the daughter out for a bike ride since the wind isn't too bad.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I'm painting. just some fyi: I fingerpaint with my left hand. basically i glop some acrylic paints on a palatte (i don't actually have one right now, just a cheez-its box) and dip my finger tips in the paint, and then attack the canvas... i'm no pro but i really enjoy it.

in progress:

oh, and it's on the wall because i'm letting it dry for a bit before continuing. also so i can look at it and see where i need to make changes.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

I agree dude... I'm just saying that this headlong rush into the cyber-future and the way we isolate ourselves from each other is one of the contributing factors for nutcase-creation. when nobody's looking, when nobody's around, people start getting crazy ideas. i mean, if you just look at stuff like Castaway. Sure it's a movie, but it makes a great point- if Tom didn't have that stupid volleyball, he'd have gone insane and killed himself. Or Lord of the Flies. or any other number of conceptual situations in which external contact is severed. I see that as becoming more and more of a problem.

By the way, in case you guys are tired of talking about school shootings, some guy just shot and killed the Mayor of Nagasaki. Japan has banned guns since WW2. Go figure.

You both are correct. People don't mingle that much anymore. I see it at the bars, and at other social "events". Used to be everyone talked to everyone, now it's as if you speak to someone outside your table, your carload, whatever, it's a mortal sin. People were a lot friendlier prior to the 90's.

I completely agree with ABQ too, I can't stand it when I get an e-mail from someone who's walking or talking distance away.

I didn't hear about the Mayor of Nagasaki yet. That sucks, but also proves a point that the anti-gunners just don't get. You can make all the laws you want about firearms, but if you think for one second that a thug, gangbanger or assassin is going to use a registered firearm to commit a crime, you're VERY wrong. You're even more wrong if you think that tough anti-weapon laws are going to make jack shit bit of difference here when it comes committing crimes. I'm on the fence with a lot of the gun laws, while I DEMAND the right to keep a weapon in my home, I don't think a deer hunter needs an AR-10 that does full automatic. The NRA doesn't know whether to love me or hate me, and that's why I'm NOT a member.

As for the shooter in VA, some people are just born fucked up. Coupled with "bad" upbringing, and lacking social skills, this is bound to happen again & again. Is it society's fault for not coddling everyone to make sure they're happy and loved? Is it the parents fault for not raising their spawn right? Maybe this guy was bullied a lot? It's hard to tell, and we probably won't ever know. But it'll be the blame game once more info comes out. I think everyone gets dumped at some point in their life, or has some kind of domestic squabble, or hardship. Not everyone is going to handle it the same way.One thing is for sure, it'll sure give the news channels plenty of fodder for a long time to come.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Well said. I don't want to come off like I'm putting no blame on the 'internal' factors. the guy was clearly fucked up and made some really stupid choices.

And yeah, the people calling for strict gun laws are missing the point. they need to address the issue of people wanting to use guns on others rather than how hard it is to obtain one, cause clearly that doesn't even make a difference. if theoretically they could eradicate the presence of guns, i could still kill lots of people. i'd just have to think of a different method. and that's the real, deeper problem. methods of causing harm are far more numerous than legislation can handle.

 

[Phanto]

well thing is, that college kid just bought the gun over the desk, no question asked. guy who sold it thought he had an honest face and that was it. doubt the person killing a mayor in japan had as easy getting his firearm.
but yeah, if someone truly wants to commit something like this I doubt any laws will change their mind.

having guns on the school where the shooting was is prohibited by the way. imagine if someone with a gun could have stopped this tradegy after just a few deaths.

 

[SilentRealm]

Talking/possible debate about the shooting? Oh man. I'm just gonna step aside and get out of this thread for like a week.

i dont think theres anything wrong with talking about this stuff..its all civil and its a healthy discussion of some important issues.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

I think jeff's point is these can get out of hand. Usually when i get involved actually....

But i'm staying out. I haven't read anything anyone's said yet because i don't need to get sucked in.

Ken... srsly... awesome pic.

 

[Taliwakker]

So apparently his suicide note blames the "rich kids" and "decietful charlatans"....so there goes the broken heart angle.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

well thing is, that college kid just bought the gun over the desk, no question asked. guy who sold it thought he had an honest face and that was it. doubt the person killing a mayor in japan had as easy getting his firearm.
but yeah, if someone truly wants to commit something like this I doubt any laws will change their mind.

having guns on the school where the shooting was is prohibited by the way. imagine if someone with a gun could have stopped this tradegy after just a few deaths.

It wasn't really no questions asked. The gun dealer by law has to run a background check, and no matter how psycho one might be, if they don't have a record, there's not much in the way of stopping someone from purchasing a gun. This is where the NRA & my paths split. I had to wait 4 days for my background check, and I had ZERO problem with that. For the record, I've been a gun owner since I was 10. I never shot anybody, although I did draw a bead on a snowmobiler who tore up my lawn. Wasn't going to shoot him, but I made my point....

 

[HackerX]

So apparently his suicide note blames the "metal" and "video games"....so there goes the broken heart angle.

Fixed...

At least, I'm sure that's what the media will say it was

 

[MetalstormV3.0b]

I'm painting. just some fyi: I fingerpaint with my left hand. basically i glop some acrylic paints on a palatte (i don't actually have one right now, just a cheez-its box) and dip my finger tips in the paint, and then attack the canvas... i'm no pro but i really enjoy it.

in progress:

oh, and it's on the wall because i'm letting it dry for a bit before continuing. also so i can look at it and see where i need to make changes.

super painting dude, good stuff for kinder garden techniques

 

[ABQShredHead]

Sweet acrylic, Kenneth.

Speak of the "somebody else who could have been allowed to carry a gun on campus could have shot this guy" angle from Phanto, a situation similar to that occurred at a local grocery store here in Albuquerque. A man came upon another man beating his ex in the produce department. The beater had a knife. The onlooker pulled out his gun and shot the guy dead before he could stab the woman. The shooter was not charged with any crime and was portrayed (rightfully so) as a hero.

I don't own a gun. I don't think I ever will. I hope I never have to. I'm not one bit against guns though. If somebody wants to own a gun, they have every right to, in my opinion. I agree with J-Dub though - what deer hunter requires an automatic rifle to hunt game? Well, other than a very bad shot, I guess... Perhaps more time at the shooting range would reduce the feeling he needs to spray rounds at a moving target rather than carefully aiming and firing once.

I heard a tid on the news this morning about the fear other students and even teachers had of this individual well before the attack occurred. His English teacher even asked him to drop the course because his papers were too "disturbing" to the teacher. Would have been nice if some action could have been taken months ago, but I see no means of recourse for the action.

 

[ThornsOfSorrow]

@Kenneth: That painting is gorgeous so far, especially that mountain in the back. It just shows how effective something so simple can be. Also, although you can't actually hold it up like a palette, have you ever tried using freezer paper (even if you just tape some to the Cheez-Its box)? I've been using freezer paper for years, simply because it can be thrown out when I'm done painting for the day.

As far as the shooting, I'm not going to go into it that much, but it all boils down to the age-old debate of nature vs. nurture. There's really no way to determine exactly what made this person so screwed up, but in my opinion, it was probably a mix of both his own personality and the influence of society. I'm guessing that he had some qualities that just made him over-sensitive to everything going on around him, thus making him very easy to influence. As Kenneth basically said, no one is free from the influence of their surroundings, so at least some of that had to be factored into his personality. Either way, it's tragic that anyone could have the mindset to murder that many people.

 

[1by4by9]

That's a cool painting Kenneth!

I recently painted something with oil pastels. I even coloured the canvas with coffee & tee (not accidentally as you might think.