Official Off Topic Thread
- Thread starter theodyssey
- Start date
Iced Dog
The Stormrider's Pooch
Yeah, but you need more than a keen business sense to successfully run this country...otherwise I would've voted for Ross Perot!
I think we're staying fairly civilized thus far...props to everyone
Personally, I prefer Obama, and not just because he's the "lesser of evils", I actually like the guy. McCain is cool too because he's not a party slave, though his foreign policy scares me. Hillary...she gets a bad rap and I think she'd be a capable president, but I'd like to see some new blood in the oval office and Obama has impressed me thus far.
noble savage
Member
I'm a registered democrat however, I'm currently disgusted by how they have handled things so far in congress. I would have really liked to have seen some sort plan to resolve some of our problems. Like the huge ass debt, war(s!) , stem cells etc but nothing as of yet. I think McCain is a more than competent guy who has really shown he knows what he is doing. Because of his soon to be affiliation with Huckabee I will thus be forced to vote for Obama. Who, from what I have seen, is not that bad either.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
Apparently the Democrats had fourteen million voters show up on Super Tuesday as compared to eight million for the Republicans, if anyone cares.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Yeah, but you need more than a keen business sense to successfully run this country...otherwise I would've voted for Ross Perot!
I think we're staying fairly civilized thus far...props to everyone
I don't know if Obama is the ideal person for the job, but out of the choices i think he'll work to bring about the most positive change. We'll see. I pretty much agree with Ken though... if Obama's in the running he will get my vote. If it's Hillary and McCain, i'm going with the old man.
I would like to hear more about Mark's opinion since he's the one who's said he wouldn't vote Demo... curious as to which candidate appeals to him and why (if he's cool talking about it of course). I'm sure i'll disagree, but I would love to hear from some Republican supporters to find out their side.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
If Huckabee were to be included as vice on the ticket with McCain, I'll be voting democrat regardless of who gets the nomination.
SilentRealm
Member
I know I'm aussie and I don't count.. I've never minded McCain as a Republican though.. I was devastated when Bush Jr. beat him out (I was more involved back in those days coz I was married to an American), however, I would love to see Obama as President!! He seems really great, he comes from hardship so he should understand the plight of the 'little people' alot better than any of those other rich bastards that come from privilege, and it's about time the U.S got their first Black President.. if Hilary wins however, please please please vote for McCain!!
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
Sorry, but if Huckabee picks up enough steam to make it on to the Republican ticket as VP I would vote for Hillary over McCain.
uke:Sorry, but if Huckabee picks up enough steam to make it on to the Republican ticket as VP I would vote for Hillary over McCain.
Agreed 100%. These cookie-cutter Republicans have lost sight of the whole concept of separation of Church and State. Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance, which really sucks because I would prefer him over Obama.
Eternal Dragon
1337AD
I guess people know what they will get with hilary. She will be a proxy for bill, and since he has already been in power everyone knows what she will do. I'm not saying she won't make her own choices, but rather she will be influenced by bill in a rather substantial way.
My vote would be with obama. He seems really sincere and I would trust him over any of the others.
My vote would be with obama. He seems really sincere and I would trust him over any of the others.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
That shocks me. Ron Paul is not someone I would ever support. His proposal overturn roe v. wade and make it up to state government is insulting, not to mention it would be a HUGE step back and would just open the door for all kinds of regression. He tries to portray himself on this platform that would appeal to liberals, but when you really look at his politics they're quite scary.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
I really wasn't at all impressed with the bulk of that guy's platform in the least. I really hope Obama gets the nomination, I think he can actually beat McCain.
noble savage
Member
If Huckabee is involved, I hope so!
I have been thinking about this the past few days nonstop for some reason... The job of the president is to uphold the constitution and maintain the freedoms given to us. Why is a man such as Huckabee who has stated, on many occasions that he will change the constitution to fit Christians, even allowed to be considered for president?
I have been stewing in this for a few days now and it's starting to drive me fucking mad. Not a single person of influence in our country has spoken out against this nut case. The man wants to take away our basic freedoms and droves of people are lining up to vote for him. This man should be out on a street corner selling pencils from a cup and screaming about the end of days not running this country.
Sorry, end of rant.
ABQShredHead
©1970
Zach, since you asked so nicely, I'll write a bit.
I don't agree with the Democratic party's programs, for the most part. I am one who firmly believes that too many Americans sit on their asses looking for hand-outs from the US government, and many Democratic programs are aimed to "improve" life for those less fortunate and who cannot get by on their own. I feel for those who truly cannot get by on their own; but, on the other hand, there are far too many people looking to take advantage of the programs and use the money when they are completely capable of getting by on their own (particularly through improving their education and thereby improving their standing). Democrats preach they stand for middle-class America, which I have yet to see in my years. Taxes must be raised to pay for their programs, and that includes the middle class' share of taxes.
As for Roe v. Wade, Zach, I used to be all in favor of giving a woman the choice to do with what is growing in her body as she will. Then, as I aged, I saw that abortions are, in the majority of instances, a cop out for a couple who have made a mistake. And, more often than not, it's not even a couple. Abortions provide an easy out for casual sex. If people are not willing to live with the ultimate consequence of having sex, they should not be having sex in the first place. Abortion removes accountability, and that is what has turned my opinion on abortion. And add to that stance that I've had two of my own kids - well, if you have not held your own baby right after he/she is birthed, you would not understand. Yeah, that used to be about as Democratic as I got, but that is pretty much erased as well.
As for Separation of Church and State, the President of the United States has no authority to change the Constitution. Only the Legislature can do that. Regardless of which person is elected President, I think there is a good chance Roe v. Wade will be overturned by the now Conservative Supreme Court. Even Ms. Roe has come out as an opponent of her own case outcome. If Huckabee became President, you wouldn't have to worry about the Constitution being changed in accordance with the Bible, folks. His Christian principles would, no doubt, guide many of his decisions though; and, quite frankly, our society is largely built on Christian principles as it is. I know that saddens many people and many people have a guttural dislike of Christianity, but that's where we come from. And, back to Separation of Church and State, to my knowledge the gist of it is no person is to be persecuted by the government for their choice in religion and all people are granted the freedom to choose their own religion. It does not say anything to the effect of Thou Shalt Not Practice Christianity.
Yeah, tear me apart however you wish. Those are my views though. I have a huge design review tomorrow and I must get back to my presentation.
I don't agree with the Democratic party's programs, for the most part. I am one who firmly believes that too many Americans sit on their asses looking for hand-outs from the US government, and many Democratic programs are aimed to "improve" life for those less fortunate and who cannot get by on their own. I feel for those who truly cannot get by on their own; but, on the other hand, there are far too many people looking to take advantage of the programs and use the money when they are completely capable of getting by on their own (particularly through improving their education and thereby improving their standing). Democrats preach they stand for middle-class America, which I have yet to see in my years. Taxes must be raised to pay for their programs, and that includes the middle class' share of taxes.
As for Roe v. Wade, Zach, I used to be all in favor of giving a woman the choice to do with what is growing in her body as she will. Then, as I aged, I saw that abortions are, in the majority of instances, a cop out for a couple who have made a mistake. And, more often than not, it's not even a couple. Abortions provide an easy out for casual sex. If people are not willing to live with the ultimate consequence of having sex, they should not be having sex in the first place. Abortion removes accountability, and that is what has turned my opinion on abortion. And add to that stance that I've had two of my own kids - well, if you have not held your own baby right after he/she is birthed, you would not understand. Yeah, that used to be about as Democratic as I got, but that is pretty much erased as well.
As for Separation of Church and State, the President of the United States has no authority to change the Constitution. Only the Legislature can do that. Regardless of which person is elected President, I think there is a good chance Roe v. Wade will be overturned by the now Conservative Supreme Court. Even Ms. Roe has come out as an opponent of her own case outcome. If Huckabee became President, you wouldn't have to worry about the Constitution being changed in accordance with the Bible, folks. His Christian principles would, no doubt, guide many of his decisions though; and, quite frankly, our society is largely built on Christian principles as it is. I know that saddens many people and many people have a guttural dislike of Christianity, but that's where we come from. And, back to Separation of Church and State, to my knowledge the gist of it is no person is to be persecuted by the government for their choice in religion and all people are granted the freedom to choose their own religion. It does not say anything to the effect of Thou Shalt Not Practice Christianity.
Yeah, tear me apart however you wish. Those are my views though. I have a huge design review tomorrow and I must get back to my presentation.
SilentRealm
Member
I'm not interested in flaming or starting a debate, or putting down anyone elses views, but i would like to respond with my thoughts on what ABQ said:
about the handouts thing - sure there would always be people who wrought the system, but making it harder for every day folks isnt the solution to it in my opinion. The easy answer to everything is 'get a job' but it's not always that easy.. my mother-in-law (ex) tells me her husband lost his job and it's been almost a year now and still hasn't had luck finding another.. it's not that he doesn't look, there's just nothing around. He isn't a bum, but without her wage to support him he would have become another homeless statistic ages ago. Once people become homeless things only get harder. Plus minimum wage is appalling. How is a single mother supposed to work 3 jobs just to put food on her kids' table? I just think people should step into someone elses' shoes and see what life is like when your luck really does run bad.
As for abortion - I've held my baby in my arms, and I'm still pretty much pro-choice. For me, no I probably couldn't have an abortion, but again, you don't know someone's life situation, and what kind of life is it for a child to be born into a world where it will know nothing but neglect/abuse/hardship? I don't like abortion, but my solution is mandatory birth control until people can prove that they're able to look after a child - and well that ain't never gonna happen unfortunately. I just think it's way too much of a grey area to make proper judgement.. you can't say 'no abortion under any circumstance' but you shouldn't make it socially acceptable either.
Anyway, like I said, I don't want to debate it.. it's just how I feel.
I'm gonna start getting ready for a lovely night of hanging out with friends now.. have a good weekend everyone!
about the handouts thing - sure there would always be people who wrought the system, but making it harder for every day folks isnt the solution to it in my opinion. The easy answer to everything is 'get a job' but it's not always that easy.. my mother-in-law (ex) tells me her husband lost his job and it's been almost a year now and still hasn't had luck finding another.. it's not that he doesn't look, there's just nothing around. He isn't a bum, but without her wage to support him he would have become another homeless statistic ages ago. Once people become homeless things only get harder. Plus minimum wage is appalling. How is a single mother supposed to work 3 jobs just to put food on her kids' table? I just think people should step into someone elses' shoes and see what life is like when your luck really does run bad.
As for abortion - I've held my baby in my arms, and I'm still pretty much pro-choice. For me, no I probably couldn't have an abortion, but again, you don't know someone's life situation, and what kind of life is it for a child to be born into a world where it will know nothing but neglect/abuse/hardship? I don't like abortion, but my solution is mandatory birth control until people can prove that they're able to look after a child - and well that ain't never gonna happen unfortunately. I just think it's way too much of a grey area to make proper judgement.. you can't say 'no abortion under any circumstance' but you shouldn't make it socially acceptable either.
Anyway, like I said, I don't want to debate it.. it's just how I feel.
I'm gonna start getting ready for a lovely night of hanging out with friends now.. have a good weekend everyone!
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
thanks Mark, very interesting stuff. I can see where you're coming from on the assistance thing... those programs are theoretically designed to help people get back on their feet. In theory, great idea. Admittedly, the system is majorly flawed, but to me it is less of a concern given the rest of the issues that are around. I can understand it being a major point for someone, but for myself it is a smaller issue.
As for Roe V. Wade and abortion, i can't say that i am an advocate of using abortion as birth control. However, i have many close friends who have had abortions for any number of reasons, be it they were not careful to getting pregnant from being raped. I've also seen people have kids who simply aren't ready and they are... well, not good parents. Personally, i don't believe abortion is murder because i do not believe a first term fetus is a "person" yet, so that is not a factor in my mind. I would rather people rock the population control if the alternative is tons of teenage and unfit parents. Still, i would rather see kids get educated on safe sex than just being told to "not do it" because uneducation and blatant miseducation is the biggest factor in unwanted pregnancy.
The christianity thing is tough... i know it doesn't sit well with me, but i've got to think this argument out a bit more. I don't think i can do it right now. I'm just too tired heh... cop out i know, but it's the truth.
But yeah, while i disagree with you on those things, I'm glad you have support for your beliefs that is based in some logic.
As for Roe V. Wade and abortion, i can't say that i am an advocate of using abortion as birth control. However, i have many close friends who have had abortions for any number of reasons, be it they were not careful to getting pregnant from being raped. I've also seen people have kids who simply aren't ready and they are... well, not good parents. Personally, i don't believe abortion is murder because i do not believe a first term fetus is a "person" yet, so that is not a factor in my mind. I would rather people rock the population control if the alternative is tons of teenage and unfit parents. Still, i would rather see kids get educated on safe sex than just being told to "not do it" because uneducation and blatant miseducation is the biggest factor in unwanted pregnancy.
The christianity thing is tough... i know it doesn't sit well with me, but i've got to think this argument out a bit more. I don't think i can do it right now. I'm just too tired heh... cop out i know, but it's the truth.
But yeah, while i disagree with you on those things, I'm glad you have support for your beliefs that is based in some logic.
Iced Dog
The Stormrider's Pooch
I'm sure that's true, but let's be honest, not everyone wants kids...and mistakes happen no matter how careful you are.
Yes, but I'd wager our forefathers didn't want our blessed constitution (or any part of our govenment) being manipulated in the name of ANY religion. But regardless, I appreciate your input, it makes a for a good discussion
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
I don't think overturning Roe v. Wade would end the practice of abortion, it would probably just increase the mortality rate as women are forced to achieve the same end through illegal means.
ABQShredHead
©1970
I'm in the same boat as Zach - tired. I haven't finished my presentation yet and it's 12:17 local. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day...
Good food for thought - it's pointless to have a conversation with somebody who shares the same views as you do. I don't mind anybody sharing their views that differ from mine, and quite look forward to reading them.
Good food for thought - it's pointless to have a conversation with somebody who shares the same views as you do. I don't mind anybody sharing their views that differ from mine, and quite look forward to reading them.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Absolutely. We've spent plenty of time talking and even had beers together, you know i have ultimate respect for you so i have no problem discussing opposing views on things like this. It's exactly why i asked for your views because i knew it would help the discussion rather than hinder it.
Off topic Mark, i got Midas and 120 for you. That's all they had, so i'm going to try to get packaging materials tomorrow or the next day so i can get it to you. I also got a bottle of 120 for myself
I'll talk to the owners and see if they can get any of the other varieties we talked about.Similar threads
