Official Off Topic Thread

I'm thinking the general consensus for hating country and rap among white suburbanites (nothing against them, I am/was one) is bullshit - as if Led Zepplin is the pinnacle of creativity, oh brother. Double standards and hidden class prejudice if you ask me. Interesting how countercultural movements are claimed by the next generation as part of the mainstream cultural. If only that happened with prog - oh wait no one gives a shit about prog except fucking nerds. >:|
 
Doesnt seem like its been three years already Ken ? But as I know you realize this I'll still give you the lecture... "DONT QUIT" ! Unless you find something else solid and a sure thing.

I left a decent job in 04 becasue I hated the hours, 12 hours a day and most of it nights, I never saw the family, that created a big pile of shit having a teenage daughter that walked all over her mother, whatever... I should have stayed! Today I'd have 6 years on that job, further up in seniority because many others left, be on days and they are only working 8's now, great UNION benefits - 100% health, $3-4 per hour into the pension fund.... thus proving Im a dumbass. Then had a less paying job but one I loved, still union benes but lower and lost it by having a pretty serious accident, the last "real" job I had. In todays world of qualifications and background checks Im a red flag with nill qualifications... at 52 thats a bad place to be and the entire job world seems like a wall. I'm beginning to see in the end I'll be begging my way into a $8 an hour job and rubbing pennys together, which Im doing now anyhow with a seriously low UE rate. I technically have a "job" but so far this season one weeks work.... yippy ! Last year amounted to 10 weeks late in the summer/early fall when I finally got hired. Lots of apps out, no bites, so far avioding any jobs below $14 an hour, shit I made more than that in the 80's.

Honestly John I think even if we drug out the bastille we still could not fix this thing because it took them 30 years to "downsize" aMerican operations (AT HOME)... "home"... such a curious word in todays "new world". I think all this would have happened earlier if not for the free pass allowed by the tech industry and housing market of the 90's and earlier 00's. The growing tech industry gave college grads work and the housing industry DMF's such as myself work... now those bubbles have burst and the machine is out of soap.

Lubricant bottle is empty too......
 
I'm thinking the general consensus for hating country and rap among white suburbanites (nothing against them, I am/was one) is bullshit - as if Led Zepplin is the pinnacle of creativity, oh brother. Double standards and hidden class prejudice if you ask me. Interesting how countercultural movements are claimed by the next generation as part of the mainstream cultural. If only that happened with prog - oh wait no one gives a shit about prog except fucking nerds. >:|

You have confused me here, you mean like my comment that most that hate counrty are probably young burbies ? Or that its common for young burbies to not like counrty or rap ? Cause I'd say they most likely accept rap and not country.

I would argue that Zep was one of the pinnacles of creativity in the early 70's especially for young bloods like myself that wanted kick ass music and later grew toward more deeper stuff with the band. Still that time was an explosive period and we had so much variance to listen too out of a relative small handful of bands.

Interesting how countercultural movements are claimed by the next generation as part of the mainstream cultural.

Yes it is and history seems to prove and repeat this phenom

The prog nerd thing is something that never bothered me for some reason, maybe because I can deal with enjoying more thoughtful picturesque music and laugh at such comments made my neaderthals, all while being able to enjoy more simple fun music at the same time. I'm also aware that many who are into brutal music non stop and insult everyone who isnt are live with mom and dad punks with pencil stick arms, trying to make up for what they are not. I have lived and thrived in some real world brutal conditions few dare to walk so it all amuses me... but as per my post on employment.. it didnt pay off, I have been humbled but it was a great adventure just the same.
 
You have confused me here, you mean like my comment that most that hate counrty are probably young burbies ? Or that its common for young burbies to not like counrty or rap ? Cause I'd say they most likely accept rap and not country.

It's becoming bizarrely common for middle class kids to consider "classic rock" (Doors, AC/DC, Led Zepplin, The Who, sometimes bleeding over into mainstream metal like Maiden/Metallica/Sabbath) as some superior form of music when on artistic/musical merits it clearly doesn't deserve that title, IMO. People act like it has some kind of soul or technicality that pop, rap, country, etc., doesn't. As if singing about bitches and hos is stupid, but Robert Plant and his baby baby baby aren't? I'm not saying oh, those kids are classist or whatever, but it's just...clearly separated by class now. The "poor" genres are avoided like the plague. It's all about social perception and prestige. Am I reading too much into it?

Also notice that the "classic rock" is never, say, Muddy Waters, but Beatles onward...fucking hypocritical, and a lot of it is shit music.

I'm also aware that many who are into brutal music non stop and insult everyone who isnt are live with mom and dad punks with pencil stick arms, trying to make up for what they are not.

That's all well and good that you can defy the stereotype, but what do you do when you actually fit it? Being a nerdy faggot isn't easy these days.
 
Oh being a "nerdy faggot" was easy in the 60's and 70's ? In my small school that group hung together, were honor students, got excuses for or puked in gym class, buttoned their top button and read the bible during homeroom and lunch period. They were called the "Jesus Freaks", no one bothered them because we were well raised in regards to respect and it was also the tail end of the "love and peace" era, but most ignored them. I made it a point to say hello to and acknowledge everyone.

Yes you are reading way to much into things. Youth has always been like that, theres been great poetry written about it, when your young you've got the answer for everything, but little do you know that you are simply a yet ignorant tool, then you get old and realize you never did and still dont know a fucking thing.

Why would "classic" rock play Muddy Waters ? He didnt get air play and was a blues artist. "Classic" rock is about the rock songs that are now "classic" from the golden era of rock. Old RnR is called golden oldies from the golden era of RnR. I believe everybodys appreaciation for such bands as you mention is due to their footprint in changing the art, whether they know it or not, that is what made it stand out then and still to this day. Old RnB motown music carrys the same weight, it all depends on the "circle" that enjoys what music. Fusion and funk... same deal, now theres some stuff that made you a nerd or a bit strange in my time amounst those that prefered to listen to Skynyrd and Seger non stop.

Best thing to always remember is NOTHING about people changes, even amounst those that see themselves as "do your own thing, everything goes", in fact there is where you usually find the most hyprocracy when the toes of their guidelines become stepped on.
 
As much as I like Led, they weren't very original. Hell they could of been called the original samples in music, before hip-hop/rap came.

fucking brilliant as always, ever have anything solid to back up your moronic comments ?

of course not, why ? The answer lies in phrases we avoid using on this forum.
 
The lyric plagerism is old news, their early lyrics were rather cheezy too, lyrics seemed to be one of their largest problems and noted at the time by Ian Anderson. Instrumental influence is another thing, as if to say that Maiden ripped their gallops from Uriah Heep, Zep and Heart or that every metal band since Maiden ripped galloping pedals from them or thrash riffs from Metallica, or Maidens souring guitar harmonies were ripped from Wishbone Ash, or RnR ripped itself off everyday of the ages all while simply playing the blues fast. I have yet to hear anything that sounds like the main section of Bring it on Home or anything previous to I and II that was anywhere near that heavy, that is Zeps footprint, Immigrant Song was their footprint, wheres the blues riff that sounds like Whole Lotta Love, where is the song that sounds like What Is and What Should Never Be... my personal favorite. How about Black Dog ? Does anyone wish to state that their heavy RnR song called Rock and Roll had any pretence as being anything but RnR ? Does the song Hats off to Roy Harper indicate Page unable to pay tribute to his influences ? I learned a funk groove in the early mid 70's from some black dudes that was remarkably similiar to IIRC "The Crunge", Dyer Maker was thier go at reggae, they threw some attempt at Nashville country on PG, I always knew this stuff.

Heres the song that made Spirit, does it sound like Zep ? Or nearly every other popish RnR song of the era ? The small bit of thier song that seems to have inspired Stairway was because Page must have heard it go someplace they failed to. Its quite brief and departs from each other quickly, how could Page have given them credit for writing Stairway ? or how could he have dropped where he took it ? I cant imagine my music history without that song.


No one can really say what part the music industry itself or Peter Grant had in the early credits either. Some of its worthy of shame, mostly lyrics, some is just nit picking but Zeps footprint for their greater songs, their sound and its impact is undenyable.
 
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Beyond the Lighted Stage kicks buckets of ass, and is probably the best music documentary ever made....

Yeah. I saw it in the theater. Amazing picture, sound, and archival footage. I loved the whole album by album chronology as well.

I just wish they had talked a bit more about their drug use and other forms of coping on the road that they only once mentioned when talking about Caress Of Steel.

I really wanna see the Bonus DVD ASAP.
 
This scandal along with the Iron Contra is the worst political scandals of all time.


The Teapot Dome Scandal was an unprecedented bribery scandal and investigation during the White House administration of United States President Warren G. Harding. Before the Watergate scandal, it was regarded as the "greatest and most sensational scandal in the history of American politics".[1] The scandal also was a key factor in posthumously destroying the public reputation of Harding, who was extremely popular at the time of his death in office in 1923.[citation needed]

Teapot Dome is an oil field on public land in the U.S. state of Wyoming,[2] so named for Teapot Rock, an outcrop resembling a teapot south of the field[3].43°13′59.3″N 106°18′40″W / 43.233139°N 106.31111°W / 43.233139; -106.31111

In 1921, by executive order of President Harding, control of U.S. Navy petroleum reserves at Teapot Dome in Wyoming and at Elk Hills and Buena Vista in California, was transferred from the U.S. Navy Department to the Department of the Interior. The petroleum reserves had been set aside for the Navy by President Taft. In 1922, Albert B. Fall, U.S. Secretary of the Interior, leased, without competitive bidding, the Teapot Dome fields to Harry F. Sinclair of Sinclair Oil, and the field at Elk Hills, California, to Edward L. Doheny. In 1922 and 1923, these transactions became the subject of a sensational U.S. Senate investigation conducted by Senator Thomas J. Walsh.

It was found that in 1921, Doheny had lent Fall $100,000, interest-free, and that upon Fall's retirement as Secretary of the Interior, in March 1923, Sinclair also lent him a large amount of money. The investigation led to criminal prosecutions.[4] Fall was indicted for conspiracy and for accepting bribes. Convicted of the latter charge, he was sentenced to a year in prison and fined $100,000: The same amount that Doheny had lent him. In another trial for bribery Doheny and Sinclair were acquitted, although Sinclair was subsequently sentenced to prison for contempt of the Senate and for employing detectives to shadow members of the jury in his case. The oil fields were restored to the U.S. government through a Supreme Court decision in 1927.



[edit] Oil riches on government land

Teapot Rock viewed from the south – a few hundred yards east of Wyoming highway 259, just south of Teapot Creek, and about 19 miles north of Casper, Wyoming. The Teapot Dome oil fields are north of the rock to the right.
The location of Teapot Dome oil field in Natrona County, Wyoming.Teapot Dome is a geologic structural uplift and oil field located in Natrona County, Wyoming, about 55 miles north of Casper. The Teapot Dome area and the United States Naval Oil Reserve covering most of the field are named for a nearby formation of eroded sandstone called Teapot Rock.

The oil fields at Elk Hills and Buena Vista, both in Kern County, California, and at Teapot Dome were located on public land reserved for emergency use by the U.S. Navy only when the regular oil supplies diminished. Many politicians and private oil interests opposed the limits placed on the oil fields, claiming that the reserves were unnecessary and that American oil companies could provide for the Navy.

One of the public officials most avidly opposed to retaining the reserves was Republican Senator Albert B. Fall of New Mexico. A political alliance ensured his election to the Senate in 1912, and his political allies — who later made up the infamous "Ohio Gang" — convinced President Harding to appoint Fall as United States Secretary of the Interior in March 1921.

[edit] Single-bid contracts followed by kickbacks
In 1922, the reserves were still under the jurisdiction of Edwin C. Denby, the United States Secretary of the Navy. Fall convinced Denby to give jurisdiction over the reserves to the Department of the Interior. Fall then leased the rights of the oil to Harry F. Sinclair of Mammoth Oil, a subsidiary of the original Sinclair Oil, without competitive bidding. This manner of leasing was legal under the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920.[5] Concurrently, Fall also leased the Naval oil reserves at Elk Hills, California, to Edward L. Doheny of Pan American Petroleum in exchange for personal loans at no interest. In return for leasing these oil fields to the respective oil magnates, Fall received gifts from the oilmen totaling about $404,000 (equivalent to $4 million in the year 2000). It was this money changing hands that was illegal—not the lease itself. Fall attempted to keep his actions secret, but the sudden improvement in his standard of living prompted speculation.

On April 14, 1922, the Wall Street Journal reported a secret arrangement in which Fall had leased the petroleum reserves to a private oil company without competitive bidding. Fall denied the claims, and the leases to the oil companies seemed legal enough on the surface. However, the following day, Democratic Senator John B. Kendrick of Wyoming introduced a resolution that would set in motion one of the most significant investigations in the Senate's history. Republican Senator Robert M. La Follette, Sr. of Wisconsin, arranged for the Senate Committee on Public Lands to investigate the matter. At first, La Follette believed Fall was innocent. However, his suspicions deepened after his office was ransacked.[6] Without any proof and with more ambiguous headlines, the story faded from the public eye. However, the Senate kept investigating.

[edit] Investigation and outcome

Senator Albert B. Fall, the first former U.S. cabinet official sentenced to prison.La Follette's committee allowed the investigation panel's most senior minority member, Democrat Thomas J. Walsh of Montana, to lead what most expected to be a tedious and probably futile inquiry seeking answers to many questions. For two years, Walsh pushed forward while Fall stepped backward, covering his tracks as he went. The Committee found no evidence of wrongdoing, the leases were legal enough, but records kept disappearing mysteriously. Fall had made the leases of the oil fields appear to be legitimate, but his acceptance of the money was his undoing. By 1924, the Committee had only one unanswered question: How did Fall become so rich so quickly?

Money from the bribes went to Fall's cattle ranch and investments in his business. Finally, as the investigation was winding down and preparing to declare Fall innocent, Walsh uncovered one piece of evidence Fall had forgotten to cover up: Doheny's loan to Fall in November 1921, in the amount of $100,000 (equivalent to about $1.22 million in present-day terms[7]).

The investigation led to a series of civil and criminal suits related to the scandal throughout the 1920s. Finally in 1927 the Supreme Court ruled that the oil leases had been corruptly obtained and invalidated the Elk Hills lease in February of that year and the Teapot lease in October of the same year. The Navy regained control of the Teapot Dome and Elk Hills reserves as a result of the Court's decision. Another significant outcome was the Supreme Court case McGrain v. Daugherty which, for the first time, explicitly established Congress' right to compel testimony.

Albert Fall was found guilty of bribery in 1929, fined $100,000 and sentenced to one year in prison, making him the first Presidential cabinet member to go to prison for his actions in office. Harry Sinclair, who refused to cooperate with the government investigators, was charged with contempt, fined $100,000, and received a short sentence for jury tampering. Edward Doheny was acquitted in 1930 of attempting to bribe Fall