Ok, Get in Here

[unhinged]

aye I'm sure when you think of bands in relation to yourself you think of the ones you like and have spent time with

if someone says to you metallica.. the first thing that pops into your head is probably not reload ...unless its the only one youve heard in which case you should be slapped for not buying a COC album instead

 

[SonOfNun]

Don't forget that the first who will admit what i say, are the "newer bands that do it a thousand times better" f.e. Amorphis will never possibly think that they might create something better than their teachers' albums (Hawkwind or Pink Floyd) and even the thought of it will make them go crazy..me thinks.

I don't like when people use this argument, but I see it pretty often. Of course most artists aren't pompous enough to say they're better than Bathory, etc., but that doesn't mean anything when it comes down to what I or another fan thinks about the comparison. My opinion isn't going to change because so and so humble themselves before an earlier band.

My problem with the rest of the argument, is that I simply don't agree, it's obviously just too subjective a topic. I don't think that the originators of my two main genres, death and black, are AT ALL the best at what they did/do. I'd rather listen to Blood Red Throne, Yyrkoon, Behemoth, Decapitated etc. instead of Morbid Angel and Death (even though I LOVE MA.) I'd rather listen to DsO and Temple of Baal than Emperor and Darkthrone (even though I LOVE those bands.) You see, it's just not something we have a common ground on and at least on this point, nobody is right or wrong.

 

[Demilich]

I don't like when people use this argument, but I see it pretty often. Of course most artists aren't pompous enough to say they're better than Bathory, etc., but that doesn't mean anything when it comes down to what I or another fan thinks about the comparison. My opinion isn't going to change because so and so humble themselves before an earlier band.

My problem with the rest of the argument, is that I simply don't agree, it's obviously just too subjective a topic. I don't think that the originators of my two main genres, death and black, are AT ALL the best at what they did/do. I'd rather listen to Blood Red Throne, Yyrkoon, Behemoth, Decapitated etc. instead of Morbid Angel and Death (even though I LOVE MA.) I'd rather listen to DsO and Temple of Baal than Emperor and Darkthrone (even though I LOVE those bands.) You see, it's just not something we have a common ground on and at least on this point, nobody is right or wrong.

Thank you for saving me a lot of time and saying pretty much exactly what I wanted to say after reading some of the replies in this thread and the others!

 

[IOfTheStorm]

I don't like when people use this argument, but I see it pretty often. Of course most artists aren't pompous enough to say they're better than Bathory, etc., but that doesn't mean anything when it comes down to what I or another fan thinks about the comparison. My opinion isn't going to change because so and so humble themselves before an earlier band.

The band members are also fans, like you and me, and not only artists. Point is, that even the artists that you think are "thousand times better" than the old bands, KNOW that some things are considered the best for some specific reasons, beyond any nostalgia factor. It's not a matter of being humble or not being pompous and proud, but acknowledging why some bands are still thought to be musical leaders, and being admired like no new band, even after 20 or 30 years after they reached their absolute prime.

 

[Demilich]

Point is, that even the artists that you think are "thousand times better" than the old bands, KNOW that some things are considered the best for some specific reasons, beyond any nostalgia factor.

Or that these artists, since they're just as much fans as anyone else, are just as vulnerable to nostalgia as any other fan. It's all speculation.

Either way, SOME people think that those nostalgia-inducing bands are classics, some don't, and the world keeps on turning. Not everybody has to worship the same classics as you to have a valid opinion!

 

[IOfTheStorm]

Alright
THis "nostalgia factor" shit, is nonexistent. It's about time some of you realize it. Fuck, Witchcraft or Burning Saviours play exactly like 70s bands, why? Because they have nostalgia about something? I don't think so.

 

[Demilich]

Nostalgia exists whether you like it or not. It isn't the ONLY reason those bands play that way. They play that way for their reasons. That's my point. You can never reliably and consistently understand the motivations for other peoples actions. I find it pointless to bicker over why bands do what they do, simply because that's up to them. None of that makes nostalgia any less valid. Prove me wrong. Prove to me that nostalgia is completely fabricated.

Also, you know I don't have a problem with retro bands. Witchcraft and Burning Saviours were probably my 2 favourite albums of last year.

 

[IOfTheStorm]

Sure, Witchcraft are nostalgic of what they lived in the 70s when they were just the glimpse on the milkman's eye (to quote Black Adder)

 

[SonOfNun]

Still don't see why it matters to me at all that some band members worship some classic bands. I listen to the music I enjoy because I enjoy it, not because of any other reason. Most musicians also tend to be humble about their music and Iron Maiden would probably just laugh you off too if you told them they were better than Sabbath (well, maybe.) But Behemoth would obviously do the same thing and just about every other band there is. I remember Erik being offended when PJ said Nasheim was better than Bathory or something of the sort. If anything, you could say their opinion means less than the common fan because their viewpoint is distorted on their own music. It's just flawed in too many ways to mean anything to me.

Also, I get that bands are classic for certain reasons and that the new bands are "copying their style" etc. and I see all the reasons why one could make your case, it's just that I beg to differ. And who knows, 20 years from now, Opeth probably will be looked at by the general consensus as "the band of our time." How many people here actually agree with that? One day they may be mentioned alongside Sabbath and Maiden without a blink and maybe it was absurd back in the day to mention Maiden alongside Sabbath. You see, time has a lot to do with all of this, and that's why I eliminate it as a factor and just see music for what it is, music.

 

[Demilich]

I guess you've never heard of the concept of nostalgia for something you've never experienced yourself. I'm not sure of any other definition, but:

"a wistful or excessively sentimental sometimes abnormal yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition " from dictionary.com

Doesn't say a single thing about the people who experience nostalgia having been alive or of a certain age during the period in question.

 

[lizard]

speaking of nostalgia, anyone following the Mike Portnoy stuff on blabbermouth, reference "Geoff Taint"

 

[IOfTheStorm]

@Opeth17: I could write zillion reasons to say why Popeth would not be remembered as "classic" in any case, but it's boring..i've done it lots of times before. Just think where they are after 10 years + of career, and where Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden were 8 years + of career. Anyway, nice to see that you change your mind, before it was a "universal musical fact" now it's just about "i don't see why it matters to me".

 

[IOfTheStorm]

"a wistful or excessively sentimental sometimes abnormal yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition " from dictionary.com

Just pointing out a word you missed

 

[lizard]

Popeth

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

I still stand by my point that I don't give a shit when a band came out. It's a matter of if I enjoy it now. In the case of our March Madness:

Metallica > Ulver ... IMO
Priest > some of its competition.... IMO
Maiden > some of ITs competition.... IMO
and so on. WHY? BECAUSE I LIKE THEIR FUCKING MUSIC!!!!! STOP TELLING ME I DON'T AND ONLY LIKE THEM CAUSE THEY COULD BE MY GRANDPARENTS!

 

[IOfTheStorm]

Dude, Maiden haven't released a great album since 7th Son and Metallica are sellouts

 

[SonOfNun]

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean that Opeth, who are widely hailed by the overall scene, won't become one of "those" bands over time. Just like there were probably dissenters to how great Maiden was in their day, but look at them now, comparable to Sabbath. Just because I disagree doesn't mean that Maiden isn't still considered a great, classic band. I'm just trying to reveal here that time has SO much to do with how a band is looked at in their time and ours and how it affects things like this tournament. Again, that's the reason I try to eliminate all notion of time and influence, it would cloud things over for me too much when I just want everything stripped down to its true core. It really wouldn't surprise me if Opeth was up there in 20 years and it wouldn't surprise me to hear some young punk like myself telling me how much they suck ass. That's all really.

 

[Demilich]

Just pointing out a word you missed

"return to OR of"

not that this isn't a completely pointless argument.

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

Dude, Maiden haven't released a great album since 7th Son and Metallica are sellouts

So what? I'm sure you'd run out of creativity after a long run of awesomeness too! Or the booze and drugs rotted your mind.

 

[IOfTheStorm]

this is unbelievable