"old school" Metallica appreciate thread

[SoundMaster]

Ok, ok, so the present day Metallica is but a shell of its former self. Sure, their recent output has sucked - but not because of a change in style (I actually preferred their 1970s "Huggy Bear" pimp look over the all-black, tapered skin-tight spandex trousers!). Anyway, they now suck due to poor songwriting.
But forget about that.


Think back to the glory days of
KILL EM ALL
RIDE THE LIGHTNING
MASTER OF PUPPETS
...AND JUSTICE FOR ALL

Was their a better, more dominant band on the scene? No.

They totally dominated the 80s, and stole the crown right out from underneath Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. They became the definition of metal and the measuring stick by which all pretenders to the throne were compared.

Heck, even their instrumentals from that period kick our asses:
To Live Is To Die, Call of Ktulu, Orion and Pulling Teeth!


So, while we all can get a good laugh at "St Anger", let's give the band it's due props!

 

[Wicked Child]

Like i said on the "Kill the Idols" thread, although i love Kill 'em All and Ride The Lightning, lately, i've gotten quite sick of Metallica.I can't listen to them anymore. I've had enough of Metallica to last me a lifetime and a half. I find them EXTREMELY overrated these days. Overhyped, overworshipped,overrated. And it drives me totally nuts that as a metalhead, it's like i HAVE to like them and be associated with them. Fuck that!

And if anyone comes up to me and says "Yeh! Metal rules!! You like Metallica, right? THEY R TEH SHIT, D00D!!!111!!" just one more time, i swear to God, i'm gonna go insane and beat the living daylights out of him.

 

[AngelWitch73]

Despite what they have turned into now, METALLICA will forever have my gratitude for being the first band to open my eyes (and ears) to Heavy Metal. "Kill Em All" and "Ride The Lightning" are two of the greatest Metal albums of all time.

 

[SickBoy]

Think back to the glory days of
KILL EM ALL
RIDE THE LIGHTNING
MASTER OF PUPPETS
...AND JUSTICE FOR ALL

So, while we all can get a good laugh at "St Anger", let's give the band it's due props!

They were one of my first metal bands and they are praised with good reason when 80s are concerned. But when people glorify them for their later works, I just can't understand that...
But Metallica from the 80s...

 

[carnut]

I think very few bands ever were able to make a record like "Kill 'm all". I remember getting it in the shop, calling 2 friend and banging our heads through the entire album... As for the recent stuff; I haven't bought any of it, but if I listen to songs on radio and so they don't sound THAT bad to me, there's MUCH worse metal music around I think, but I say, I don't know the entire albums. It would be great to hear another killer recording of them again though, what about a Kill'm All 2 ?? That would be a major challenge !!

 

[Greeno]

They totally dominated the 80s, and stole the crown right out from underneath Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. They became the definition of metal and the measuring stick by which all pretenders to the throne were compared.

I don't agree with that. They really didn't get "big" until And Justice, sure they were well known on the underground before that. I think the Ozzy tour (them opening up) was when they first started catching on with a bigger audience.

When I think of the definitive 80's metal band it's NOT metallica, even though I like their 80's releases....... but can no longer listen to them. Iron Maiden would be the band that first comes to my mind.

 

[Greeno]

Like i said on the "Kill the Idols" thread, although i love Kill 'em All and Ride The Lightning, lately, i've gotten quite sick of Metallica.I can't listen to them anymore.

Same here. I loved MOP but it just bores me know..... maybe I've heard it one too many times. It has nothing to do with the way they are now, I just don't want to listen to them anymore, maybe in a few years.

 

[USMC0341]

For me - Metallica is the epitome of the 80's metal revolution (but there are quite a few others that are very important as well).
Master of Puppets was an atomic bomb dropped on the music world and shit hasn't been the same since. As I've said before - they took the bar and moved it about 100 feet higher that it had ever been before.
MUCH of their success up to that point is owed to Cliff Burton. He was the only one of them who understood theory and arrangements on a high level, and it showed in their music. As far as I am concerned - "Orion" is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard. Like it or not - when you take music to that level, understanding theory on that level makes all the difference in the world.
Anyway - I will say that the idea that it's almost obligatory to like Metallica is silly. I think for true metalheads who appreciate the history of metal and how we got to where we are now, there should be a certail level of respect for what they did for our genre - but as far as HAVING to like them, I think that's going a bit too far. They did some amazing things back in the 80's with no real path to follow - they blazed that particular trail mostly themselves (and I mean taking thrash to that level - I'm well aware that Sabbath, Priest and Maiden all laid the groundwork).
Looking back, sure - you can say it's not that impressive because newer bands have taken the torch and bumped shit up several levels higher than Metallica did in the 80's.

I will ALWAYS be a Metallica fan, regardless of how much I hate their latest stuff. That's probably because I actually grew up in the heyday of Metal, and watched all that awesome shit happen in real time. Their music was a huge part of my life throughout highschool, and their music went with me EVERYWHERE I went in the Marines (it's pretty cool riding on a LAR in Kuwait listening to "Damage Inc." or "The Four Horsemen".

They still put on an unbelievable live show, and I think adding Rob Trujillo was a good thing for the band. I still throw in Master of Puppets and play bass along with Orion and Battery - very good exercise for keeping my right hand finger speed up to par.

But I can see how people would be sick of them now...I'm not too sure what they have been thinking lately, but not being in their shoes I can't speculate.

That's my 3 cents...

JB

 

[wdiv]

It would be great to hear another killer recording of them again though, what about a Kill'm All 2 ?? That would be a major challenge !!

I'd like to hear 'em pull that off with the snare drum

 

[ElectricWiz]

I don't really see Metallica as inovaters as such. I remember well when Master of Puppets (and the previous albums) came out. There was A LOT of other good stuff at the time, and really Metallica didn't sound so terribly different than the rest. They weren't like some altogether new invention or something. Don't get me wrong, I think that Master of Puppets is the best metal album ever, really. It's just amazing, and unlike some above here, it never sounds dated or boring to me. It was miles ahead of a lot of other metal just because it was sooooo good; the production, the writing, all that. Still, it wasn't like they changed the face of music or anything, I don't think so anyway. Number of The Beast was already around, as were Venom's seminole albums, and a whole list of others the serve to prove that Metallica didn't exactly "create" a new thing. The album was, and is, amazing (as are the other early ones), but I always wonder why people see it as so damned ground breaking. Further, I support whoever said that "it wasn't that popular..." because it wasn't. I didn't know ANYBODY who liked Master of Puppets, not like I did anyway. It was really only after the Black album that the whole fucking world went back and began praising the early stuff. Before that they were just a unusually popular cult band. They were NOT a household name, and the world was not lining up to give them accolades. I will also say that their new stuff is panned WAY to hard. It's just bashing. I can see why some don't like St. Anger, but I think it's fine. Not amazing, but not emberrassing by a long shot. They're not my favorite band these days, but their legacy is secure, and the new stuff is just plain not that bad. Average, maybe. Bad, hardly.

 

[USMC0341]

I don't really see Metallica as inovaters as such. I remember well when Master of Puppets (and the previous albums) came out. There was A LOT of other good stuff at the time, and really Metallica didn't sound so terribly different than the rest. They weren't like some altogether new invention or something. Don't get me wrong, I think that Master of Puppets is the best metal album ever, really. It's just amazing, and unlike some above here, it never sounds dated or boring to me. It was miles ahead of a lot of other metal just because it was sooooo good; the production, the writing, all that. Still, it wasn't like they changed the face of music or anything, I don't think so anyway. Number of The Beast was already around, as were Venom's seminole albums, and a whole list of others the serve to prove that Metallica didn't exactly "create" a new thing. The album was, and is, amazing (as are the other early ones), but I always wonder why people see it as so damned ground breaking. Further, I support whoever said that "it wasn't that popular..." because it wasn't. I didn't know ANYBODY who liked Master of Puppets, not like I did anyway. It was really only after the Black album that the whole fucking world went back and began praising the early stuff. Before that they were just a unusually popular cult band. They were NOT a household name, and the world was not lining up to give them accolades. I will also say that their new stuff is panned WAY to hard. It's just bashing. I can see why some don't like St. Anger, but I think it's fine. Not amazing, but not emberrassing by a long shot. They're not my favorite band these days, but their legacy is secure, and the new stuff is just plain not that bad. Average, maybe. Bad, hardly.

As far as changing the face of music - of course there was a shitload of metal out there already - AWESOME metal - Maiden and Priest, Sabbath, Slayer, Megadeth etc...I was more trying to say that Master of Puppets put Thrash metal on the map because of the success of the album and the acclaim it recieved. Number of the Beast is a timeless album - but there aren't any riffs on that album that come close to they type of riffs that are on MOP - that's the point I am trying to make. Maiden is one of my all-time favorites - I started listening to them when I was 11 - but it's really 2 different styles of Metal, and that's the difference in my eyes. MOP took things to a new level and in a different direction. Were there other great bands doing great stuff too? Of course, but I don't think any of them captured the sound and style that Master of Puppets threw out there. MOP was the total package in my opinion, and I think it opened a lot of doors for a lot of other bands.

As for St. anger - I just hate the production. There are some great riffs tucked in here and there, but the drums and guitar sound just take away from any positives in my opinion. I will say that St. Anger and Frantic sound 1000 times better live than they do on the album, hands down. My problem with that album is mostly on the production side.

Metallica is still one of my all-time favorite bands and always will be, regardless. Same as Iron Maiden.

JB

 

[Greeno]

I agree with ElectricWiz, nice post. While most of us here were aware of them before "And Justice" 99% of the "fans" of today were not (I would bet). MOP is one of my favorite albums (got to see them open for Ozzy on that tour) but it was overlooked for the most part until they broke big on MTv and radio. To say that they changed the face of metal in the 80's I think is nothing more than revisionist history. They were a great and very important band but far from being one of the MOST important bands. In about 1988 or 89 the may have been the most important and biggest band, but for all of the 80's..... no way.

 

[Greeno]

Maiden is one of my all-time favorites - I started listening to them when I was 11 - but it's really 2 different styles of Metal, and that's the difference in my eyes.

But aren't we talking about metal in general, not just thrash? If we are just talking about thrash metal then yes 80's Metallica is the biggest best most important band. If we are talking about 80's metal overall then they are not that high up on the list. I'm not bashing them, I love the first 4 albums, been a fan since Ride The Lightning, but in the bigger scheme of things they were an underground band during the 80's........ which is not a bad thing at all!! They were underground darlings for the first 2 albums, built up some steam with MOP on the OZZY tour and then broke big with AJFA.

 

[USMC0341]

But aren't we talking about metal in general, not just thrash? If we are just talking about thrash metal then yes 80's Metallica is the biggest best most important band. If we are talking about 80's metal overall then they are not that high up on the list. I'm not bashing them, I love the first 4 albums, been a fan since Ride The Lightning, but in the bigger scheme of things they were an underground band during the 80's........ which is not a bad thing at all!! They were underground darlings for the first 2 albums, built up some steam with MOP on the OZZY tour and then broke big with AJFA.

Good point Greeno. I see your point if we're talking about Metal in general. They were an underground band until 1986 when they released Master of Puppets, and then they blew up big time. I guess my point was that I feel MOP was a truly defining album for them, and things just took off from there. Maybe too late in the 80's for all of Metal, but for me - that's the one.

JB

 

[USMC0341]

I agree with ElectricWiz, nice post. While most of us here were aware of them before "And Justice" 99% of the "fans" of today were not (I would bet). MOP is one of my favorite albums (got to see them open for Ozzy on that tour) but it was overlooked for the most part until they broke big on MTv and radio. To say that they changed the face of metal in the 80's I think is nothing more than revisionist history. They were a great and very important band but far from being one of the MOST important bands. In about 1988 or 89 the may have been the most important and biggest band, but for all of the 80's..... no way.

I started listening to them when my cousin gave be a duped tape of "Kill 'em All" when I was like 14. I'm proud to say I got to see them open for Ozzy supporting MOP.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying they changed the face of metal in the 80's, because they did. The 80's spans 10 years, and they cut their teeth and blew up in the 80's, albeit later in the 80's than some other bands. I'm glad they did what they did, and in my opinion I think they are without a doubt ONE of the most important, along with many others. Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Megadeth, Slayer...

JB

 

[Wyvern]

I have seen a lot of people getting off Metallica due to their last 4-5 crappy albums. But I have no problem with their classic material. The way I see it is a band that died in 1987 and I keep hearing their old albums.

There's no way I can sit today and don't like 'Whiplash', 'Creeping Death', 'Master Of Puppets' or 'Dyers Eve'.
As forerunners of the speed/thrash movement they carved they niche in history, if then they went down the drain is their problem not mine. I'll bash them as hard as I can any time I see the opportunity, but I'm not going to turn my back on their good stuff.

 

[SoundMaster]

There was A LOT of other good stuff at the time, and really Metallica didn't sound so terribly different than the rest. They weren't like some altogether new invention or something. Don't get me wrong, I think that Master of Puppets is the best metal album ever, really. It's just amazing, and unlike some above here, it never sounds dated or boring to me. It was miles ahead of a lot of other metal just because it was sooooo good; the production, the writing, all that.

This was really the point I was trying to make. They may not have spawned the thrash genre, but, IMO, they dominated it and give it respectability. Many non-thrashing metalheads got into them first, then discovered other great bands of that genre as a result.

Overall, the actual songwriting on those records is just amazing.

 

[USMC0341]

I have seen a lot of people getting off Metallica due to their last 4-5 crappy albums. But I have no problem with their classic material. The way I see it is a band that died in 1987 and I keep hearing their old albums.

There's no way I can sit today and don't like 'Whiplash', 'Creeping Death', 'Master Of Puppets' or 'Dyers Eve'.
As forerunners of the speed/thrash movement they carved they niche in history, if then they went down the drain is their problem not mine. I'll bash them as hard as I can any time I see the opportunity, but I'm not going to turn my back on their good stuff.

Well said...

 

[USMC0341]

This was really the point I was trying to make. They may not have spawned the thrash genre, but, IMO, they dominated it and give it respectability. Many non-thrashing metalheads got into them first, then discovered other great bands of that genre as a result.

Overall, the actual songwriting on those records is just amazing.

I agree...well stated and to the point.

JB

 

[ElectricWiz]

I'll modify my point a bit to agree with some of those here. I do think they changed things, somewhat. Only that, I don't think there was anything strictly ground breaking about the music. It was amazing, but it wasn't leaps and bounds past Maiden or anything. Further, a lot of people would say that they paved the way for Among The Living and all the other stuff from that genre, but really Among The Living only came out a year later (MOP is far superior to me, by the way). Point being, everybody was kinda progressing in the same direction and I don't believe that Anthrax got their hands on Master of Puppets, listened to it, and then agreed amongst themselves to go in that direction. I think all the bands that were breaking around that time or shortly thereafter were just naturally doing it on there own. I guess what I'm saying is that Metallica, to my way of thinking, didn't really open any doors for anybody. I agree with the "revisionist history" comment someone made above. After the black album, and to a lesser extent And justice, people suddenly seemed to know alot about what was going down from 84-87, give or take. The interesting thing is, though that was a great era, most of the people whom I knew (and had similar taste to me) were listening to something else by that point.

Really, the whole Metallica legacy comes in broad sections. The early "take no prisoners" stuff, amazing.....then Justice, then Black and beyond. From there they were "america's band" in a sense, and that just kinda puts ya in a different genre, in some sense, altogether.

I say again though, I dig 'em. I'll never put mileage on their newer stuff like the older, but I am not ashamed to say I saw them twice on the last tour (I like St. Anger), and met them the second time. They were really fucking nice by the way.