OPETH Frontman: 'We've Never Jumped On Trends Or Chances To Make Money' - Sep. 5

[Jude]

Emperor isn't really that dark either. please, no hypocrisy. Good lord, the sept 05'ers are a whiny angry bunch. And probably all american.

Ooh, low blow. I AM American (well half Canadian) and although I'm not proud of that, you're still a twat for acting like being American automatically makes you stupid. There are plenty of smart, open-minded Americans, and there are sure plenty of stupid, self-righteous Canadians and Brits too. And if you're accusing ME of being arrogant, I'm not the one slagging a band because they didn't make an album the way I wanted them to.

Anyway, I don't think I've ever heard anything by Emperor, but I've never liked any black metal, so I don't think I would dig them. And we can argue forever about if GR is dark, but it's a matter of opinion. It's darker than most of the stuff I listen to. But that's irrelevant. Anyway, I don't mind if Opeth wants to make a less dark album. They don't have to stick to one mood for all their albums if they don't want to.

Atropos: Mikael was talking about the video; I don't know who decided to make a video but it's true that nobody's going to make a 10 minute music video. The song on the album is still intact. And from what we've heard the band isn't pleased with the video anyway/had little part in its production. It's a moot point anyway.

Also, I thought black metal bands used crappy production on purpose because they thought it added to the atmosphere of the records? I don't know though.

 

[Manbient]

Artsist dont do a shitty recording on purpose. Its done because the band lacks funds.

yes they do. Of you were unaware of that, you are obviously not a listener of black metal. production style dictates atmosphere, and the atmosphere of early black metal, and that of today which emulates it was 100% intentional.

 

[Sanzen]

I'd like to reference 2 bands, if I may.

Artsist dont do a shitty recording on purpose. Its done because the band lacks funds.

In addition to most black metal recordings, Metallica - they had all the money in the world to make St. Anger sound incredible....and they didn't. They left it "raw."

it's true that nobody's going to make a 10 minute music video.

Tool. Granted, they have the money and record sales to get away with it, but Opeth deserves artistic, creative videos too.

 

[atropos_project]

In addition to most black metal recordings, Metallica - they had all the money in the world to make St. Anger sound incredible....and they didn't. They left it "raw."

St. Anger isn't raw, its sloppy. There's a difference (to me at least)

Look at Dimmu, for example. They have the funding to make discs that sound like DCA, so they do. Put song content aside, I am discussing production only.

You can believe what you like, but hissy shitty sounding recordings sound just like what they are, there is no "adding to the atmosphere". And a band on a really tight budget needs to do what it can.

YMMV

 

[DreamingofUr]

I used to feel the same way but some BM bands just need to be heard raw before you completely right it off. Early Emperor and early Satyricon are good examples I think. You hear that shit and it sounds like it was recorded in a blizzard.

 

[Botfly]

eh, I agree on some level

 

[Manbient]

St. Anger isn't raw, its sloppy. There's a difference (to me at least)

Look at Dimmu, for example. They have the funding to make discs that sound like DCA, so they do. Put song content aside, I am discussing production only.

You can believe what you like, but hissy shitty sounding recordings sound just like what they are, there is no "adding to the atmosphere". And a band on a really tight budget needs to do what it can.

YMMV

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you are right. How could so many people, including myself, be getting something out of that if it were not true? Why am i hearing the production style ADDING to the experience? And why are you implying anything Dimmu has done in the last 6 years is Black Metal?

 

[atropos_project]

How could so many people, including myself, be getting something out of that if it were not true?

Rereading my post, I see how it can be misconstrued. I'm not saying that you don't get "something" out of it, or that these bands suck. I'm saying that it's my belief that these bands are producing what they do because of budget limitations.

And why are you implying anything Dimmu has done in the last 6 years is Black Metal?

I am saying on a purely sonic "quality" level, thier new work kicks the shit out of thier old stuff. Just like Opeths new disc sounds light years better than Orchid. Just like Nile's new disc sounds better than thier old, bla bla bla.

The point I am trying to make has nothing whatsoever to do with how good a song actually IS.. I am saying that given the free reign to spend $$$ on a CD, these discs would probably sound quite different.

Back to the video issue:

Tool. Granted, they have the money and record sales to get away with it, but Opeth deserves artistic, creative videos too.

I tend to think that its an issue of Tool feeling that thier art comes before any limitations that would be imposed on them, such as editing a tune.

Word of mouth is by far the biggest weapon this genre has. This is not dance music, where everything needs to be spoon fed and forced to the listeners. There is no need for Opeth to start putting out half assed videos with horrendous song chopping to "reach more people". Just keep making great fucking cd's.

 

[DreamingofUr]

I am saying that given the free reign to spend $$$ on a CD, these discs would probably sound quite different.

I'm not sure if your reading what people are saying but its the actual aim of certain bands to have a raw sound. We are not guessing. Its a fact. Read a Fenriz interview or something. Because you don't understand why people do this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. lmao.

 

[mot-]

Someone whose personal liking of a record is linked to its (commercial) success and/or anything that isn't directly related to the musical value will most likely be a retarded fuckhead.

Seriously, are you guys actually listening to music ?

 

[Hubster]

While I agree with you on most things, I'm going to have to disagree with that statement, the only thing death metal about Opeth is the vocals (although most of them on the new record are soft, clean, non-dm vox). In reality Opeth are more black metal then they are death metal.

BLACK METAL?!

ROFL!!!

You're trying to say Opeth sound like Burzum or Enslaved.. or early Ulver?

I think you need your ears checked as well as your facts!

Opeth have NONE of the riffing that black metal uses, let alone, none of the punk influences or the trademark black metal shrieks! Go and listen to some Black Metal, obviously you never have!

 

[Manbient]

Rereading my post, I see how it can be misconstrued. I'm not saying that you don't get "something" out of it, or that these bands suck. I'm saying that it's my belief that these bands are producing what they do because of budget limitations.



I am saying on a purely sonic "quality" level, thier new work kicks the shit out of thier old stuff. Just like Opeths new disc sounds light years better than Orchid. Just like Nile's new disc sounds better than thier old, bla bla bla.

The point I am trying to make has nothing whatsoever to do with how good a song actually IS.. I am saying that given the free reign to spend $$$ on a CD, these discs would probably sound quite different.

Really though, black metal bands CHOOSE their sound. They WANT to sound that way, it doesn't matter how much money they would have had to record it. If you were to read interviews from black metal musicians, ANY time this question comes up, it is "yes, we intentionally wanted that sound". There IS no argument about it, the musicians themselves wil ltell you they were aiming for that sound. There is no way to get a sound as "bad" as that unless it was intentional. I'm sorry, but you have to recede your point, because it is wrong. It is not debatable.

 

[DreamingofUr]

BLACK METAL?!

ROFL!!!

You're trying to say Opeth sound like Burzum or Enslaved.. or early Ulver?

I think you need your ears checked as well as your facts!

Opeth have NONE of the riffing that black metal uses, let alone, none of the punk influences or the trademark black metal shrieks! Go and listen to some Black Metal, obviously you never have!

Those BM bands you mention are some of the most "unorthodox" BM out there. Enslaved is really viking metal, early ulver is practically folk, and nobody sounds like burzum in BM and I'm grateful.

And someone in a black metal band would more than likely been insulted if you told them they have punk influences. I know the guys of Mayhem have always felt that BM is the antipunk. The majority of BM band's music doesn't suck either, so, they have no relation to punk really.

 

[Demilich]

What makes me laugh with all these fans saying Opeth are not death metal is that Akerfeldt in the doco on the Lamentations DVD said himself "regardless of whatever people say, WE ARE a DEATH METAL BAND".

We're supposed to listen to Mike just because he's The Almighty, and because he's a bandmember? He admits that he hasn't enjoyed much metal in recent years, or listened to too much at all. Odds are he's a bit out of touch with what it means to be a "death metal" band. I don't listen to enough death metal (or Opeth anymore, for that matter) to make a classification myself, but why would anyone other than an utter fanboy take the word of a band member over his own judgement on a matter of genre definition? Aside from being completely subjective and mostly useless (in my opinion), Mike is no more "right" on the issue of whether Opeth is death metal than anyone else. Listening to and enjoying the music is fun!

 

[Hubster]

yes they do. Of you were unaware of that, you are obviously not a listener of black metal. production style dictates atmosphere, and the atmosphere of early black metal, and that of today which emulates it was 100% intentional.

That's right - many BM bands did lo-fi recordings on PURPOSE (also note trademark buzzsaw guitars and lack of bass in first gen BM recordings), it was part of their punk & Bathory influences but also a retaliation against Death Metal which at the time, early 90s, was really popular.

 

[Hubster]

I used to feel the same way but some BM bands just need to be heard raw before you completely right it off. Early Emperor and early Satyricon are good examples I think. You hear that shit and it sounds like it was recorded in a blizzard.

... hehe - and as they were MEANT to!

Add to that:
- Burzum (all recordings prior to keyboard-based material)
- Enslaved (Vikinglir Veldi, Eld)
- Immortal (first two records)
- Borknagar (first record and The Olden Domain to a lesser extent)

 

[Austin]

Many BM bands def opt for a low production sound even though they have the means to make more cleanly produced albums. It's part of the fun!

Metallica on the other hand...well they tried to make an album that sounded like shit and I personally think they did a great job.

 

[Hubster]

Those BM bands you mention are some of the most "unorthodox" BM out there. Enslaved is really viking metal, early ulver is practically folk, and nobody sounds like burzum in BM and I'm grateful.

And someone in a black metal band would more than likely been insulted if you told them they have punk influences. I know the guys of Mayhem have always felt that BM is the antipunk. The majority of BM band's music doesn't suck either, so, they have no relation to punk really.

Black Metal itself is unorthodox, that's part of the reason it exists, as are the bands. Look at Emperor, Enslaved, Borknagar, and even latter day bands like Negura Bunget. They all start at "textbook" black metal, but evolve (while keeping their roots strong) in some way... I'd say Black Metal is the best way for them to express how unorthodox their musical visions are... they'd be too restricted in DM imo.

Viking is really an offshoot of Black Metal anyway (the only major difference are subject matter and a minor increase in melodic sound). I feel there's not all that much difference between Black and Viking overall (I speak more of first generation bands here, keep in mind).

Apart from production and tempo differences (and perhaps that Quorthon was slowly learning to sing) Bathory and say, Hammerheart dont have that many differences. What Im saying is that Viking at its very core is Black Metal.

It's known BM has punk influences, I'm not speaking of it not being anti-punk, but it IS influenced by punk. Whether or not band members would be insulted or not isnt important, its simply a historically musical fact.

 

[Demilich]

are you people actually complaining about the label wanting an edited version of The Grand Conjuration? i mean, there are SEVERAL minutes in there than can be sheared off without missing anything!

 

[DreamingofUr]

Black Metal itself is unorthodox, that's part of the reason it exists, as are the bands. Look at Emperor, Enslaved, Borknagar, and even latter day bands like Negura Bunget. They all start at "textbook" black metal, but evolve (while keeping their roots strong) in some way... I'd say Black Metal is the best way for them to express how unorthodox their musical visions are... they'd be too restricted in DM imo.

Viking is really an offshoot of Black Metal anyway (the only major difference are subject matter and a minor increase in melodic sound). I feel there's not all that much difference between Black and Viking overall (I speak more of first generation bands here, keep in mind).

Apart from production and tempo differences (and perhaps that Quorthon was slowly learning to sing) Bathory and say, Hammerheart dont have that many differences. What Im saying is that Viking at its very core is Black Metal.

It's known BM has punk influences, I'm not speaking of it not being anti-punk, but it IS influenced by punk. Whether or not band members would be insulted or not isnt important, its simply a historically musical fact.

I'll just go ahead and skip all the first part because I put unorthodox in quotations for a reason.

Emperor evolved as a band but their roots went bye bye in their last album. Maybe thats why 2 formed Zyklon(DM) and Ihsahn went over to Peccatum(surely not BM). Ulver started as BM but recently began showing they are still a rock band at the most. Satyricon, sadly has become SHIT without roots. Borknagar is still an amazing band but are extremely melodic and are heavily keyboard based. And neither of those things are part of BM roots. While I enjoy all those bands(except Satyricon) I wouldn't say they held on to their roots strongly.

I'll agree there is not that big of a difference between early BM and Viking metal.

If your going to argue it has punk influence the same can be said about DM. Venom, Celtic Frost, and Bathory are not punk and they are what primarily if not single handedly spawned BM. Them having punk influences might be one thing but where do you draw the lines in your musical history of all this?