OPETH Frontman: 'We've Never Jumped On Trends Or Chances To Make Money' - Sep. 5

[Ikil]

Hey, I love the Pure Holocaust album, raw, emotional, kinda underrated when you compare it to De Mysteriis and A Blaze. But still, I prefer Immortal's later releases, particularly At The Heart of Winter and Sons Of Northern Darkness, those albums just have more variety and things sound more complicated here than on the early albums. For me, Immortal is a step above DT and Mayhem, but they were still no match for say Emperor or Limbonic Art.

Ikil

 

[Hubster]

Black metal to me is what the early bands aimed for. Old Mayhem, Immortal, Darkthrone and Emperor are black metal in its purest form IMO. When keys became a massive part of BM is when it started to change for the better(imo) but also started to move away from the raw, nauseating aggression.

This is a good post, DoU. I agree with you when I think about my perception of Black Metal at it's core (or first generation/wave Black Metal).

I always go by what the artists say about their own genre because their opinion would seem more informed on the matter. Darkthrone is a living example of what staying true to the original BM sound is all about. And I can't stomach listening to them for more than 3 minutes.

(Chuckle) Again, nicely put, and I agree wholeheartedly. As much as I love Enslaved for example, I find Vikinglir Veldi harder to listen to than, say for example, Eld (which, even though it was still raw, they started to go into a less nauseating direction... Plus, Grutle's vocals started to improve by the time Frost had come out).

DM doesn't work with keys so they don't have as much to work with when it comes to creating something different.

This is an interesting point, and again I agree. For some reason, I have always found keys to be more effective in Black Metal... perhaps dark symphonics are better suited for the tremolo riffing and shrieks? Any thoughts?

I find Black Metal to have "more room for artistic expansion" than I do Death Metal, or even Doom for that matter, and for the atmosphere to still stay very dark.

However, with Death Metal, it seems to take on warmer tones (I generally don't find Death Metal that dark anyway). To me, concentration in DM seems to be perhaps more based on brutality rather than the cold "temperal" expressions with which Black Metal can be characterised by. Eventually, emotional DM seems to go towards progressive or Doom-Death anyway, and the Death Metal foundations get thinned out quite quickly in my opinion. I find it somewhat formulaic.

Nevertheless, some interesting stuff does come out of DM, but I still find Black Metal a far more superior "painters palette".

 

[Hubster]

... I love the Pure Holocaust album, raw, emotional, kinda underrated when you compare it to De Mysteriis and A Blaze. But still, I prefer Immortal's later releases, particularly At The Heart of Winter and Sons Of Northern Darkness, those albums just have more variety and things sound more complicated here than on the early albums. For me, Immortal is a step above DT and Mayhem, but they were still no match for say Emperor or Limbonic Art.

Immortal's later work really took off into another realm. I think what they did especially on the last two albums was incredible, it really captured their icy themes perfectly.

I don't know if I can agree about Emperor and Immortal comparisons though, as both bands had different objectives in their music. I feel like it's comparing apples to oranges. Both have vastly different interpretations of Black Metal, but both are equally fantastic.

 

[Ikil]

Whoa, interesting point at the end there Hubster, agreed! With Black metal, there just seems to be more that you can do with it. You can add keyboards and create amazing atmosphere (ala Emperor, Limbonic Art), or add classical elements there for the avant-garde (ala early-Arcturus, Borknagar), and more recently, post and prog elements are being used (Enslaved, Blut Aus Nord).

For me, some of these elements just wouldn't work for death metal, or it could work but would seem very strange at first and would take time to get use to. I mean, A death metal band using classical elements? Odd!

But lets not forget, some Death metal has its tech elements, jazz elements, prog, melodic elements too. And some of these elements, for me, would be hard to work for black metal. So I guess at the end of the day, the two genres both balance out.

I enjoy Black metal more than Death metal though. Although a lot of black metal bands are really really bad (don't worry, death metal has its fair share of crap too), there are those ones that are good and that have made it, and those good ones GAWD! They were bloody amazing!

Ikil

 

[Ikil]

Oh, I wasn't trying to compare Immortal and Emperor, I said they were no match for Emperor. The point I am trying to make here is that for me, Emperor were a lot better musicians that Immortal was. At least Ihsahn is to say the least!

Ikil

 

[Hubster]

Agreed...

Look - although I said that Black Metal seems to be more "art-friendly", look at a Death Metal band like Farkmarkon... jazz and funk fused with Death Metal, WTF? And such amazing results as well. I cant wait for their next album.

 

[Ikil]

Well, as the point I made about Death metal, see, the jazz elements work in Death metal and I think they work really well.

Never tried taking anything away from death metal, just backing you up with your point. So many metal fans prefer death to black because of the amount of death genres (tech, prog, brutal, melodic etc) yet they miss all the black genres (avant-garde, post, prog, etc). Its like they all think Black metal is all one dimensional. Well, it ain't. Black metal has just as many different 'genres' as Death, some more unique too.

Ikil

 

[:Wreath:]

^ The difference is most black metal fans find these 'unique genres' 'untrve' and call these artists 'sell-outs' because 'trve black' isn't about progression but regression... When I hear fags like that (and I know quite a lot sadly...) I always remember that interview with Fenriz from Darkthrone when he says he deliberately doesn't practice to 'worsen' his skills... That's why I'm not into black... Call this art but I call it FUCKED...

 

[Birkenau]

Agreed...

Look - although I said that Black Metal seems to be more "art-friendly", look at a Death Metal band like Farkmarkon... jazz and funk fused with Death Metal, WTF? And such amazing results as well. I cant wait for their next album.

Farmakon* are gay.

 

[Dev]

^ The difference is most black metal fans find these 'unique genres' 'untrve' and call these artists 'sell-outs' because 'trve black' isn't about progression but regression... When I hear fags like that (and I know quite a lot sadly...) I always remember that interview with Fenriz from Darkthrone when he says he deliberately doesn't practice to 'worsen' his skills... That's why I'm not into black... Call this art but I call it FUCKED...

Case closed.

 

[mot-]

^ The difference is most black metal fans find these 'unique genres' 'untrve' and call these artists 'sell-outs' because 'trve black' isn't about progression but regression... When I hear fags like that (and I know quite a lot sadly...) I always remember that interview with Fenriz from Darkthrone when he says he deliberately doesn't practice to 'worsen' his skills... That's why I'm not into black... Call this art but I call it FUCKED...

how untrve.

 

[Ikil]

well, Wreath has a point, but those black metal fans are gay. To me, being 'True' should mean you support these bands experimenting and getting better. Hating change is stupid. Ok, maybe one or two of these bands that changed, they changed for the worse, but some of these bands changed for the better and for a 'black metal' fan to suddenly drop those bands for that, well, I don't think 'true' is the word to describe those fans, more like 'poser'.

And Darkthrone, pfft, anyone that can hate, lets say, Emperor for changing or Immortal for changing, or Enslaved for changing and yet still like Darkthrone? well, I guess we know that that person isn't in this for the music.

Ikil

 

[:Wreath:]

No, poser is not a good word, at least for the guys I know... I'd rather say fanatics, because if they read what you've written here (this goes for me too I guess) they'd stab us both... for real. I know a guy that got stabbed like that. They should be locked up in Asylums, but sadly there's more and more of them...

 

[Ikil]

Well, how can you call yourself a fan of a band when you can't accept them experimenting? Fanatics or not, a bad attitude to have.

Ikil

 

[Manbient]

Case closed.

.

also:

 

[Hubster]

^ F**K yeah.

Bring it on.

And for the record to everyone else complaining about Black Metal fans being non-accepting of change, that is garbage!

I have no issues with bands changing, I love the changes of Borknagar, Enslaved, Immortal and various other bands. Change is good, everyone has to do it in order to grow.

However, in this case with GR, it has little to do with change as it does with the album being a piece of rush-job diluted crap which does nothing to truly express the musical talents of the band.

 

[opeth_evan]

i've perhaps created the most monsterous thread in opeth history.. yet i haven't contributed to it.. i suck.

 

[Ikil]

Well I certainly don't think GR is dilluted, crap or a rush job. If that is a rush job, then that is the best fucking rush job I have ever heard. And if that album doesn't show musical talent, then I should throw half my cd collection out the window.

Now Darkthrone, that is a rush job!

Ikil

 

[Death_Of_A_Psycho]

On one hand Ghost Reveries is different.
But on the other hand it´s a typical Opeth album.
The music hasn´t turned into something (more) mass-conform.
They are doing the music they have always been doing. Nothing more.
And if they gain more success now, who cares?
Their music is great and they deserve to be more successful than they were ... Roadrunner´s way to sell them and to speak of them in one sentence with bands like Slipknot is fucking stupid, and many kids listen to them only because they think it´s "cool" to listen to such complex music like Opeth´s ... but the fans know to appreciate their sound, that´s what counts.
And I really think we shouldn´t talk that negatively about "sell-out" in this case ... see it positive, such a real good band like Opeth does deserve to get this success.

 

[Birkenau]

All of the above albums are awesome. Minus the Deathspell Omega one.

+