OPETH Frontman: 'We've Never Jumped On Trends Or Chances To Make Money' - Sep. 5
- Thread starter opeth_evan
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NO WAY, MY AVATAR IS ONLY FROM A BLACK METAL BAND'S ALBUM COVER (Taake) AND MY SIG FROM ANOTHER BLACK METAL BAND'S LYRICS (Silencer).The Hubster said:
And you've totally misconstrued my point, Opeth riffs sound nothing like a death metal bands, listen to Suffocation or Cryptopsy and tell me they sound like Opeth riffs, Opeth riffs are more melodic, like say a black metal band, I know they don't use black metal riffs, but they are sure as hell closer then to death metal.
Dreadful
When Man& Machine Collide
The Enslaved track "793" actually has the typical Opeth riffing that first surfaced on my arms your hearse (and on.) Eld came out a little before my arms your hearse too I think so I sometimes wonder if Mikael took the idea of that style of melodic rhythm.
Hubster
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DreamingofUr said:
Venom, Celtic Frost, and Bathory are proto-Black Metal (judging from your posts, you do know this of course). No way are these bands punk (LOL), I totally agree. Read what I wrote again, I'm saying (in particular first gen) Black Metal took big influences from aspects of punk (and of course from proto Black Metal as well).
Perhaps I didnt explain myself clearly enough (apologies for that).
Bands like Borknagar have kept their roots in Black Metal but not betrayed (see: Satyricon!) them. Bands like Borknagar expand or extend onwards from Black Metal to another direction, but they keep their foundations somewhat Black (examples can be taken as symphonics (thanks Ihsahn), high pitch shrieks, BM styled riffing & blastbeats).
I'm not saying they are necessarily still "pure" Black Metal, obviously they're not. But they've kept the foundational roots there which can be recognised by the experienced listener.
Borknagar (and Vintersorg himself for that matter) have also in recent times taken this form of "avant-garde post-Black" Metal into completely new territories/subjects of science, mathematics & precision. Again, the roots/foundations can be heard.
Also take Immortal - post Blizzard Beasts they took their music into a totally new world, eg using blastbeats in furious bursting ways differently to how others had, are you going to say that because they did this they are no longer Black Metal? Or perhaps that they polished their production a bit more made them stray from their roots? Did this make them less Black Metal?
Look at for example Blakkheim's solo works in Diabolical Masquerade... is that not incredibly Black! He uses keys and other effects in his music and stays in the realm of BM, just as many newer generation BM bands are doing now with their music in other ways.
And then from another angle we have France's Deathspell Omega - they harken back to the more primitive style of Black Metal, but without the speed of old Black Metal, and yet they still manage to sound "pure" to the style.
Black Metal has grown vastly and continues to do so in ways (in my opinion) that Death Metal could only TRY to do. Current day Black Metal does not comprise of only the lo-fi recordings and (muscially) humble characteristics of the genre, it is now far more complex, yet retains the cold iciness of older bands through things like keys and strong use of symphonic songwriting styles.
So it is not so much that new elements to post-first gen Black Metal deter from Black Metal, but these bands have found ways for these new elements to become part of Black Metal (but again lets forget anything than Satyricon have done, they may as well be in Australian Idol).
The concept of Black Metal to me is one which encompasses not only the first generation likes of Burzum, Darkthrone and Emperor, but also bands like Arcturus, Negura Bunget and Solefald. Not only that, but to me, Black Metal is quite unexplored in comparison to other strains of Metal. It's the Antarctica of Metal in my opinion (excuse the pun, which some other BM listeners may know of;-) ), and thus is harder to "trace" than other styles because we are still in the process of learning about it (or if you're in a band, experimenting with it directly).
Apologies for the rant folks.
MorgulLordofShadows
King of My Mind
Hubster, I have the strangest feeling that you did your thesis papers in college on black metal. Nicely put.
Manbient
Queer Old Man
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
steel102
________
The only thing good about St. Anger is that hilarious documentary they made while recording it. That is the most entertaining Metallica has done in 17 years.
Hubster
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MorgulLordofShadows said:
Cheers.
I just love my music mate, that's all it is. When I love something, art, music, anything, I do as much research as I can, read as much as I can. If I dont, I feel like I cant enjoy it enough.
Again, sorry for the looong "thesis-like" post.
steel102 said:antarctica the immortal song
Bingo hehee
The Hubster said:
While I disagree with your assertion that Opeth has sold out, I do think there is a certain something that GR lacks. When I first purchased BWP I could not stop listening to it (hell, it's on heavy rotation still!) but GR came and went after a few weeks at most.
Time will tell on that one.
But I just gotta say that I dig all the black metal talk and info as I've never been a huge fan, but now I'd like to delve into it a bit more. Heh.
Ominous Luminous
Hostile 17
I think it's great how everytime Opeth release a new album people make arguements about how they've "sold out." When Blackwater Park came out, the band working with Steven Wilson made them sell outs. When they released Damnation, dropping metal for an album made them sell outs. Now they're on RR so they've sold out.
I have to say I enjoy all of their albums about equally, but there's definitely something very special about the new one. If you don't share this opinion just put on an Opeth cd from whichever period you consider their pre-sellout period.
I have to say I enjoy all of their albums about equally, but there's definitely something very special about the new one. If you don't share this opinion just put on an Opeth cd from whichever period you consider their pre-sellout period.
DreamingofUr
Desolate and Forsaken!!
The Hubster said:
Sorry for quoting this. Black metal to me is what the early bands aimed for. Old Mayhem, Immortal, Darkthrone and Emperor are black metal in its purest form IMO. When keys became a massive part of BM is when it started to change for the better(imo) but also started to move away from the raw, nauseating aggression. Arcturus is one of my favorite bands and it was tragic to hear when Garm left but I don't consider them BM at all. HH himself doesn't even consider them BM. I'm staying close to the base of this. The original BM sound is crap when compared to what bands have expanded it to today.
I always go by what the artists say about their own genre because their opinion would seem more informed on the matter. Darkthrone is a living example of what staying true to the original BM sound is all about. And I can't stomach listening to them for more than 3 minutes.
DM doesn't work with keys so they don't have as much to work with when it comes to creating something different. But bands like Nile and Cryptopsy have really made some interesting music that just completely stands out from anything I've ever heard. Their styles make me forget I'm listening to DM altogether because its so fun to just hear whats happening. Too bad other DM bands can't strive for the same lvl of excellence. Well, there are definitely other awesome DM bands but few come close to them in my book.
What I find funny is that everyone keeps saying "they said their next album was gonna be extreme black metal". If anyone actually PAID ATTENTION to what Mikael said on the DVD....he said he'd like to do something like that IN THE FUTURE. He didn't exactly say that thier next album was gonna be exactly that. Hell he didn't even actually say it would be an Opeth album. He just said he like to do that in the future sometime. So he may have even been talking about another project besides Opeth. I guess people are just looking for reasons to call them sellouts. I don't know why everyone is upset over all the mellow parts.....50-60% of Morningrise was mellow/acoustic. Ghost Reveries kicks ass....anyone who doesn't think it's good or that they sold out, obviously must be smoking large amounts of crack.
^^^^
Now that is a post one should read and take in. Good stuff!
And I agree with DreamingofUr on Darkthrone, I mean, for me, sure, they were one of the first BM bands but at the same time, they are one of the worst bands in the genre. Sure, they stopped calling themselves musicians after TH, but I actually think they stopped being musicians after Soulside Journey. That was a good album, as for the next 3, not bad, but geez, compare it to shit loads of other metal albums...CRAP!
For me, Darkthrone's popularity is mainly due to the fact that they were one of the first BM bands, not that they made good music. A band like Emperor or Limbonic Art and EVEN Satyricon (early or later) as well as some others are the early bands who were great musicians. Sure, I enjoy Immortal, Mayhem, but musically, they don't come close to these other bands.
As for Nile, totally agree, a very different death metal band compared to the majority and thats why they are my fave brutal death band. The egyptian influences work great and they have proven themselves as musicians. Can't wait to see these guys end of November! \m/
Ikil
Now that is a post one should read and take in. Good stuff!
And I agree with DreamingofUr on Darkthrone, I mean, for me, sure, they were one of the first BM bands but at the same time, they are one of the worst bands in the genre. Sure, they stopped calling themselves musicians after TH, but I actually think they stopped being musicians after Soulside Journey. That was a good album, as for the next 3, not bad, but geez, compare it to shit loads of other metal albums...CRAP!
For me, Darkthrone's popularity is mainly due to the fact that they were one of the first BM bands, not that they made good music. A band like Emperor or Limbonic Art and EVEN Satyricon (early or later) as well as some others are the early bands who were great musicians. Sure, I enjoy Immortal, Mayhem, but musically, they don't come close to these other bands.
As for Nile, totally agree, a very different death metal band compared to the majority and thats why they are my fave brutal death band. The egyptian influences work great and they have proven themselves as musicians. Can't wait to see these guys end of November! \m/
Ikil
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