P2P TORRENTS AND THE EVIL THEY DO

Exploding Ned said:
So I guess I do serve a purpose afterall then eh? Thanx for justifying my meager existence.
Click to expand...

Ned, it really sucks for people like you, and other vendors that I've loved to use for years now that make (or supplement) their living by playing to a niche market. However, there doesn't seem to be any way around the fact that the current music business model *will* change. There would be a certain very sad irony in the demise of the independent underground music dealer because of direct marketing, seeing as the internet was one of the greatest boons ever to distros....
 
Thanx for the thoughts. I, and all knowledgible vendors, can and will survive though, albeit in an evolved state as you mentioned. But definately these free downloading assholes have gotta go.

eaeolian said:
Ned, it really sucks for people like you, and other vendors that I've loved to use for years now that make (or supplement) their living by playing to a niche market. However, there doesn't seem to be any way around the fact that the current music business model *will* change. There would be a certain very sad irony in the demise of the independent underground music dealer because of direct marketing, seeing as the internet was one of the greatest boons ever to distros....
Click to expand...
 
eaeolian said:
Ned, it really sucks for people like you, and other vendors that I've loved to use for years now that make (or supplement) their living by playing to a niche market. However, there doesn't seem to be any way around the fact that the current music business model *will* change. There would be a certain very sad irony in the demise of the independent underground music dealer because of direct marketing, seeing as the internet was one of the greatest boons ever to distros....
Click to expand...

Truth.

I'm still going to use certain online ones, because it is all in one spot when I want to make several purchases, they ship promptly, take my credit card securely, and sometimes have great deals. But as things change, and probably should, bands will need to start trying to take in more of the money from a single album sale, and one of the ways of doing this is by selling direct so that online vendors, such as LaserCD, Exploding Ned's, and a bajillion others, don't also take a cut. But only time will tell if this balances out. Meaning, if a band will sell enough more by using online vendors, instead of direct, such that they'll make more total money (even if its less per CD sold) by selling through multiple vendors.

And all this will possibly change when people really start devaluing having their music in a physical medium, and then its up to these companies to evolve. So if they can't sell physical CDs, as I stated previously, maybe they'll enter some type of a service where people can download albums securely from them, and the artists still get paid.

As I've stated before I also use a subscription service right now for much of my music listening enjoyment. I still buy lots of albums. Mostly harder to get ones, and ones I really want to have in my regular driving rotation... as I drive a lot.

I very rarely download illegally. But I do at times to become familiar with a band, or because I just can't find the album I want available.

But I'm still fairly comfortable in my opinion that the music market is changing, and that small indie vendors/labels will lose out.

As Ken has said in the past, he does well mostly due to label loyal customers. And he will probably continue to find success as he's basically looked on as a quality prescreener of music. So instead of having to read 40 reviews of some new prog rock/metal band, people will see it signed to Sensory, and buy it on faith. But as Ken also told me, the 'label market' is in a very unsure position right now...
 
eaeolian said:
That's the core of your argument. It's also incorrect reasoning - there is exactly ZERO evidence of a 1:1 correlation between the two items. Simply because I downloaded something - which, as you point out, costs me nothing - does not mean that I'd have bought it cold, which is what your reasoning is saying.
Click to expand...

If I didn't think you were serious, I'd be laughing right now.

There's no way to deny this. It is as cold, hard a fact as 2+2=4.

If someone illegally downloads a CD that means he/she -- at that point -- did not pay for it. That fact cannot be denied, even by someone totally sold on downloading illegally as you appear to be.

One illegally downloaded CD means one CD was not purchased.

How can that not be clear?

It's the next steps that all you pro-illegal download people are trying to use to justify your behavior. You assert that the person who illegally downloaded a CD probably bought one, too. Therefore, in your minds, the equation looks like this:

1 illegally downloaded CD = 1 CD not paid for + 1 CD paid for = money in the pocket of bands and labels

But what Lance and others are trying very hard to point out is that the second half of the equation isn't panning out. People are NOT buying one CD for every CD they download, so the equation remains:

1 illegally downloaded CD = 1 CD not paid for = no money for bands and labels

Dude, that can't be any more clear.

I assert that you're so blinded by your desire to continue downloading illegally that you simply won't admit it. This thread -- and all Lance and others have written -- is lost on you. You don't see because you refuse to see.
 
Purple,

Isn't it clear to you that people download albums that they never would have bought had they not downloaded it? So that 1:1 ratio doesn't work. People download albums that 'pre-downloading time' they never would have bought nor listened to.

I highly doubt that people who download 1,000 albums every year, used to buy 1,000 albums every year.
 
Yeah... I am the most anti-downloading mother fucker on Planet Earth and I think that whole 1=1 thing is crap.

However, as long as the equation ends up being Albums Not Purchased > 1, I don't care what the actual ratio is, there is a problem.
 
Definitely. If you illegally download, just don't try to get any of us to agree with your self-justification. You're stealing from the band fukkhedz. Period.

Jim LotFP said:
Yeah... I am the most anti-downloading mother fucker on Planet Earth and I think that whole 1=1 thing is crap.

However, as long as the equation ends up being Albums Not Purchased > 1, I don't care what the actual ration is, there is a problem.
Click to expand...
 
The thing is Jim. This conversation is hard to have here, as most people here are huge supporters of the bands. The downloaders here get pissed off when people tell them they are evil, because they know based on their bank account that they still buy lots of albums, and possibly more than they used to.

The people you have to worry about are usually the ones not so active in these conversations =p


I've yet to see somebody here say 'I download, and don't buy albums, and I think that's okay because music should be free for me!'

When that happens we can all set them on fire.
 
Cheiron said:
Purple,

Isn't it clear to you that people download albums that they never would have bought had they not downloaded it? So that 1:1 ratio doesn't work. People download albums that 'pre-downloading time' they never would have bought nor listened to.

I highly doubt that people who download 1,000 albums every year, used to buy 1,000 albums every year.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you guys understand my 1:1 ratio. I tried to make it clear in my previous post. I mean this:

1 album illegally downloaded = 1 album (that album) not purchased (at that moment)

That's an absolute fact. Any other ratio is pure conjecture. Only that one can be proved beyond any doubt.

For example, it's only conjecture to assume this kind of formula:

1 album illegally downloaded = 1 album (that album) not purchased (at that moment) + 10 other CDs purchased (perhaps because of that one illegal download) = nine albums that help pay for bands and labels

Any number you put into the second half of that equation is absolute speculation. But the first half is rock-solid.

But you just proved the anti-downloading argument when you wrote, "Isn't it clear to you that people download albums that they never would have bought had they not downloaded it? So that 1:1 ratio doesn't work. People download albums that 'pre-downloading time' they never would have bought nor listened to."

I'm not quite sure I understand that paragraph, but it appears you're trying to put numbers into the second half of my equation by saying people download illegally (1 CD downloaded illegally = 1 CD not purchased) but then later -- because they downloaded -- bought the CDs anyway (Formula: 1 CD downloaded illegally = 1 CD not purchased + 1 or more CDs purchased because of the download = money for bands and labels).

If that's what you're saying, I suggest this is where this whole argument breaks down. There's absolute proof that 1 CD illegally downloaded = 1 CD (at that moment) not paid for. That's obvious at face value. But there's no proof that once someone has the illegally downloaded music in hand he/she buys a CD from a legitimate source. That's the part where I think this thread has gotten fuzzy.

But you need to start with the premise I outlined above. The fact of the matter is:

1 album illegally downloaded = 1 album (that album) not purchased (at that moment)

That's the basis on which we can all have common ground. But we need to start with that basic understanding of what's going on before we can discuss anything further. As I've tried to point out, it's the second half of the equation that's most open to conjecture -- with a growing preponderance of evidence suggesting the second half of the equation isn't happening. Bands and labels are losing money the more illegal downloading grows in popularity.

Bill
 
Obviously there is not concrete evidence to "Prove to some" that this is a problem for BANDS, not just labels, however it is VERY obvious to labels and bands that this is indeed a big deal, we see daily how it's effecting everything we do, there is proof in everything we see. Just because you don't see this, doesn't mean it's not true, we eat, breathe and sleep it in a different manner.

I agree with the statement that because there are so many new releases in the market in a similar Genre that it would obviously effect individual album sales!
No question, more choices, same money, spread thinner. Yet there are a lot of music appreciators out there, and when a genre diversifies to the point that was illustrated, it usually brings More people into it and therefore the pool of spendible income grows.

There is MOST CERTAINLY NOT a negative effect from LEGAL downloading however, this is a way for buyers to get albums CHEAPER that physical copies, simply because there is no where near the costs in distribution associated with them. I will illustrate how this medium is a fantastic thing for artist and labels that are helping artist get there music out there.

Nightmare started doing digital distribution in 2006 I'll give you one case
this is our BEST SELLING download artists, all of the LEGAL downloading sites we have them on, and also ALL of the revenue and where it came from for this album. And the Data of when it was put online on said sites.

You will notice SEVERAL sites that offer STREAMING SAMPLES OF THE ENTIRE ALBUM ....very similar to the idea that our friend GLENN had stated, these are a lot cheaper, some offer these streams free, some charge an exceptionally low fee, we make up to .09 cents per song streamed on these sites, this is from an association fee you pay to join a promotional club within specific sites.

In the below listed example I've posted this album was put on 45 different digital download sites that actually pay the artist in some way, shape or form, yet there are only a few that actually any money has come in from.
probably many reasons for this, lack of knowledge of the sites service, perhaps lack of knowledge of the album from their users, hard to say.

Digital DELIVERY:
CLOUDSCAPE: Crimson Skies + 1 Bonus Track


company name date sent
BuyMusic July 22, 2006
PassAlong July 22, 2006
Daiki July 23, 2006
Inprodicon July 23, 2006
MP3-Extension - DEAD July 23, 2006
Choice Records July 23, 2006
DigitalKiosk July 23, 2006
GreatIndieMusic July 23, 2006
MusicIsHere August 1, 2006
MSN Music August 5, 2006
MPGreek August 5, 2006
MusicNet August 5, 2006
PayPlay August 6, 2006
Puretracks August 7, 2006
Rhapsody August 7, 2006
Ruckus August 8, 2006
Sony Connect August 8, 2006
Verizon August 10, 2006
MusicNow September 21, 2006
Napster September 30, 2006
Interia October 6, 2006
GroupieTunes October 14, 2006
Muze October 17, 2006
RuleRadio October 31, 2006
Sonific November 13, 2006
USEN December 2, 2006
SNOCAP December 7, 2006
Bitmunk December 7, 2006
Nexhit December 8, 2006
Destra December 11, 2006
PlayIndies December 11, 2006
Tradebit December 18, 2006
Intent Media Works December 24, 2006
MP3tunes December 27, 2006
Zune December 27, 2006
Nareos January 4, 2007
AudioLunchbox January 4, 2007
WrapFactory-DEAD January 18, 2007
NTT January 31, 2007
Goodstorm March 5, 2007
rVibe May 29, 2007
MOL June 12, 2007
Liquid Digital Media September 24, 2007
Apple iTunes October 2, 2007
iMusica October 31, 2007


Digital income for CLOUDSCAPE: Crimson Skies + 1 Bonus Track

IMPORTANT: stream means a paid listen, NOT a purchase. Only download is a purchase.
Negative amounts indicate a return--just like you would return a sweater.
More info here.
company sales date report date song price # subtotal
iTunes-Australia 2006-09-00 2006-11-07 -- full album -- $6.991download 1 $6.991
iTunes-Canada 2006-09-00 2006-11-07 Shapeshifter $0.628download 1 $0.628
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Someone else $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Will we remain $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.009stream 1 $0.009
iTunes-Europe 2006-09-30 2006-11-07 Shapeshifter $0.790download 1 $0.790
iTunes-Europe 2006-09-30 2006-11-07 Hope $0.790download 1 $0.790
iTunes-Europe 2006-09-30 2006-11-07 -- full album -- $7.786download 1 $7.786
iTunes-UK 2006-09-30 2006-11-07 -- full album -- $7.977download 1 $7.977
Apple iTunes 2006-09-30 2006-11-08 -- full album -- $6.370download 2 $12.740
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 1000 souls $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Demon tears $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 And then the rain... $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 And then the rain... $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Take the blame $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 The last breath $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Hope $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2006-09-30 2006-10-31 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 Take the blame $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 Hope $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 Demon tears $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 1000 souls $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 -- full album -- $6.370download 3 $19.110
Apple iTunes 2006-11-04 2006-11-29 Shapeshifter $0.637download 1 $0.637
iTunes-UK 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 Shapeshifter $0.834download 1 $0.834
iTunes-UK 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 Take the blame $0.834download 1 $0.834
iTunes-Europe 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 -- full album -- $8.028download 1 $8.028
iTunes-UK 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 -- full album -- $8.165download 1 $8.165
iTunes-UK 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 The last breath $0.834download 1 $0.834
iTunes-UK 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 And then the rain... $0.834download 1 $0.834
iTunes-UK 2006-11-04 2006-11-28 Shadowland $0.834download 1 $0.834
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 The last breath $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Take the blame $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 And then the rain... $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Hope $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Demon tears $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 1000 souls $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Someone else $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Will we remain $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Will we remain $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Someone else $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Shadowland $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 And then the rain... $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Take the blame $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 The last breath $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Hope $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 Demon tears $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-11-30 2006-12-31 1000 souls $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 The last breath $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 Demon tears $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 1000 souls $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 Will we remain $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 -- full album -- $6.370download 3 $19.110
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 Take the blame $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 And then the rain... $0.637download 1 $0.637
iTunes-UK 2006-12-02 2006-12-25 -- full album -- $8.199download 1 $8.199
iTunes-UK 2006-12-02 2006-12-25 Hope $0.838download 1 $0.838
iTunes-UK 2006-12-02 2006-12-25 Psychic imbalance $0.838download 1 $0.838
iTunes-Europe 2006-12-02 2006-12-25 Hope $0.812download 1 $0.812
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 Shapeshifter $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2006-12-02 2007-01-08 Shadowland $0.637download 1 $0.637
iTunes-Canada 2006-12-30 2007-01-29 -- full album -- $6.003download 2 $12.006
iTunes-Europe 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Take the blame $0.798download 1 $0.798
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 -- full album -- $6.370download 5 $31.850
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Will we remain $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Someone else $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 1000 souls $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Breach in my sanity $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Hope $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 The last breath $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 Take the blame $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2006-12-30 2007-01-27 And then the rain... $0.637download 1 $0.637
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 Hope $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 Take the blame $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 The last breath $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2006-12-31 2007-02-12 And then the rain... $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 -- full album -- $6.370download 7 $44.590
MP3-Extension - DEAD 2007-01-15 2007-03-18 -- full album -- $7.089download 1 $7.089
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 Shapeshifter $0.637download 3 $1.911
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 Shadowland $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 And then the rain... $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 Breach in my sanity $0.637download 4 $2.548
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 Demon tears $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-01-15 2007-03-06 1000 souls $0.637download 2 $1.274
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 And then the rain... $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 Hope $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 1000 souls $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 Shadowland $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2007-01-31 2007-03-06 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
iTunes-Europe 2007-02-03 2007-03-04 -- full album -- $8.027download 2 $16.054
iTunes-UK 2007-02-03 2007-03-04 -- full album -- $8.068download 2 $16.136
Apple iTunes 2007-02-15 2007-04-03 -- full album -- $6.370download 5 $31.850
Apple iTunes 2007-02-15 2007-04-03 The last breath $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-02-15 2007-04-03 Shadowland $0.637download 2 $1.274
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Hope $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 The last breath $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Take the blame $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 And then the rain... $0.009stream 7 $0.063
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Shadowland $0.009stream 7 $0.063
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Will we remain $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 -- full album -- $7.689download 1 $7.689
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 8 $0.072
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Someone else $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 1000 souls $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-02-28 2007-04-01 Demon tears $0.009stream 3 $0.027
iTunes-Canada 2007-03-02 2007-04-02 -- full album -- $5.511download 2 $11.022
iTunes-UK 2007-03-03 2007-04-02 -- full album -- $8.278download 1 $8.278
iTunes-Europe 2007-03-03 2007-04-02 -- full album -- $8.148download 1 $8.148
Apple iTunes 2007-03-15 2007-04-29 The last breath $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-03-15 2007-04-29 And then the rain... $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-03-15 2007-04-29 Shapeshifter $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-03-15 2007-04-29 Will we remain $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-03-15 2007-04-29 -- full album -- $6.370download 2 $12.740
Apple iTunes 2007-03-15 2007-04-29 Breach in my sanity $0.637download 1 $0.637
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Take the blame $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 And then the rain... $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Demon tears $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Hope $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 1000 souls $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Will we remain $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Someone else $0.009stream 3 $0.027
iTunes-Europe 2007-03-31 2007-04-23 Shapeshifter $0.840download 1 $0.840
iTunes-Europe 2007-03-31 2007-04-23 Shadowland $0.840download 1 $0.840
iTunes-Europe 2007-03-31 2007-04-23 And then the rain... $0.840download 1 $0.840
iTunes-Europe 2007-03-31 2007-04-23 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.840download 1 $0.840
iTunes-UK 2007-03-31 2007-04-23 -- full album -- $8.361download 1 $8.361
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Shadowland $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 The last breath $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-03-31 2007-05-22 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Apple iTunes 2007-04-15 2007-06-06 -- full album -- $6.370download 3 $19.110
Apple iTunes 2007-04-15 2007-06-06 Breach in my sanity $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-04-15 2007-06-06 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 4 $2.548
Apple iTunes 2007-04-15 2007-06-06 Take the blame $0.637download 3 $1.911
Apple iTunes 2007-04-15 2007-06-06 And then the rain... $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2007-04-15 2007-06-06 Shadowland $0.637download 1 $0.637
MP3-Extension - DEAD 2007-04-15 2007-05-23 -- full album -- $7.089download 1 $7.089
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Demon tears $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Hope $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 The last breath $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Take the blame $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 1000 souls $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 And then the rain... $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-04-30 2007-06-24 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
iTunes-UK 2007-05-05 2007-06-07 Shapeshifter $0.882download 1 $0.882
iTunes-Canada 2007-05-05 2007-06-07 And then the rain... $0.599download 1 $0.599
Apple iTunes 2007-05-15 2007-07-10 -- full album -- $6.370download 3 $19.110
Apple iTunes 2007-05-15 2007-07-10 Will we remain $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-05-15 2007-07-10 Shapeshifter $0.637download 1 $0.637
Tradebit 2007-05-24 2007-06-17 Will we remain $0.637download 1 $0.637
Rhapsody 2007-05-31 2007-07-06 Will we remain $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-05-31 2007-07-06 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-05-31 2007-07-06 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-05-31 2007-07-06 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-05-31 2007-07-06 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-05-31 2007-07-06 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
iTunes-UK 2007-06-02 2007-07-14 Take the blame $0.855download 1 $0.855
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Hope $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 And then the rain... $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Take the blame $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 1000 souls $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Shadowland $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Will we remain $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Apple iTunes 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Take the blame $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Will we remain $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 -- full album -- $6.370download 3 $19.110
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Demon tears $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 The last breath $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-06-30 2007-08-06 Someone else $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-07-31 2007-09-05 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-07-31 2007-09-05 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Apple iTunes 2007-08-04 2007-09-07 -- full album -- $6.370download 2 $12.740
Apple iTunes 2007-08-04 2007-09-07 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 -- full album -- $6.370download 5 $31.850
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Will we remain $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Demon tears $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Breach in my sanity $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Hope $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Take the blame $0.637download 2 $1.274
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Shadowland $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-08-15 2007-10-11 Shapeshifter $0.637download 2 $1.274
SNOCAP 2007-08-15 2007-09-08 Breach in my sanity $0.628download 1 $0.628
SNOCAP 2007-08-15 2007-09-08 Psychic imbalance $0.628download 1 $0.628
SNOCAP 2007-08-15 2007-09-08 Shapeshifter $0.628download 1 $0.628
SNOCAP 2007-08-15 2007-09-08 Take the blame $0.628download 1 $0.628
SNOCAP 2007-08-15 2007-09-08 Will we remain $0.628download 1 $0.628
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 The last breath $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Psychic imbalance $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 Take the blame $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Hope $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Breach in my sanity $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Demon tears $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 1000 souls $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Someone else $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Will we remain $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Take the blame $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 And then the rain... $0.008stream 2 $0.016
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Shadowland $0.008stream 3 $0.024
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 The last breath $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 Psychic imbalance $0.009stream 2 $0.018
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 Hope $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 Breach in my sanity $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-10 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 1 $0.009
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 Shadowland $0.009stream 4 $0.036
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 And then the rain... $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Rhapsody 2007-08-31 2007-10-08 Shapeshifter $0.009stream 3 $0.027
Ruckus 2007-08-31 2007-10-15 Shapeshifter $0.008stream 3 $0.024
Apple iTunes 2007-09-15 2007-11-05 Psychic imbalance $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-09-15 2007-11-05 You Belong- BONUS TRACK-USA ONLY $0.637download 1 $0.637
Apple iTunes 2007-09-15 2007-11-05 -- full album -- $6.370download 1 $6.370
iTunes-Europe 2007-09-15 2007-11-05 -- full album -- $8.622download 1 $8.622
TOTAL: 441 $510.46


NOW, the artist makes half 50% of this money with Nightmare, because our costs are much lower to distribute this way. And yet we are putting a lot of money into promoting the artist so they feel this is a great deal.
But I can say CLEARLY that this is NOT hurting us in sales, because we're making money on it.....It's interesting to note that while this is our top selling download artist, this is NOT our top selling in physical sales though.


NOW on the flipside, the SHINING STAR album I did sold as many physical copies as the CLOUDSCAPE album, however our digital sales (also on 45 legal pay download sites) are only $85.00 and that album was up on those sites 3 months earlier than the CLOUDSCAPE, now I believe these are similar in style a bit and released around the same time, this is why I used these two as examples. But because Cloudscape was released on both German and Japanese labels as well they most certainly had another promotional budget that contributed to the albums visibility.
 
Thanks Lance! I've been bugging some bands to give me info on how much they make everytime I play them on Rhapsody.

So if I play a full album the band gets what... .90 cents on average? That would mean if I listened to that album about 9-10 times they'll get the same payment from me as if I bought it. Unless they only get paid per unique listeners, and doesn't matter how often one listeners listens to them....

I can't remember how much Rhapsody costs me... but since I listen to about 20 new albums on there a month, and I know its less than $250 a month... its a good deal for me ;)
 
MEGALOUD said:
There is MOST CERTAINLY NOT a negative effect from LEGAL downloading however, this is a way for buyers to get albums CHEAPER that physical copies, simply because there is no where near the costs in distribution associated with them.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry - I guess I wasn't clear. I understood you make money off the legal downloads. I was referringto actual physical CD sales being down because of the legal downloads. I believe that all labels need to come up with some form of electronic distribution to take advantage of this market.

I also feel that satellite radio bites into your profits more so than local radio ever did. I know many people that no longer buy music because they have XM in the car with a portable for the house or internet broadcast for their desk.
 
Cheiron said:
Yeah I put .90 because .9 cents * 10 songs = .90 cents.
.90 cents * 10 album listens = $9.
$9 = around what a label makes per album purchase.
Click to expand...

.9 cents is 9/10ths of one cent. This isn't 9 cents, or .9 dollars.

1 Rhapsody stream according to Lance means $0.009. So to make $9, it would have to stream one thousand times.
 
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