Phase issues

[~BURNY~]

Ok, I guess we all here do our best to avoid phase cancellations when putting many microphones on an instrument like drumset for example.
I did some experiments lately:
I zoom into the audio files of my sequencer until I can see the waveform properly, then I
move each file so it match with the overheads phase and invert it (only) if necessary.
The sound is often fuller with better lows, more edgy trancients. So I wonder if some of you do this, and what's your opinion about it. Is it "ethical"? Does it make sense?

 

[axeman720]

sure yeah man we all check for phase dude, or should be. i either do it as i'm tracking and just use my ear or i'll do it when i'm mixing. phase is critical!

 

[~BURNY~]

Thanks for reply man.
But the point of my question was more on how you do it (sorry if that wasn't very clear)? I know some sound engineers who only use phase inverter, then ok. But moving the files of each sounds to match with the overheads phase... Is it a common technique?

 

[Kazrog]

I've always just moved the audio files so the phase lines up myself. But I sometimes wonder what the hell people did in the analog days? Some input from Andy here would be awesome.

 

[egan.]

I've always just moved the audio files so the phase lines up myself. But I sometimes wonder what the hell people did in the analog days? Some input from Andy here would be awesome.

Obviously I'm not Andy but I would suggest that they did it by listening, moving mics and applying the 3:1 rule. I would also argue that this is a much better method than changing the time relationship between 10 different mics to match to 2.

 

[axeman720]

ok i gotcha now. sorry i didnt understand before. honestly, yeah man i mean i do spend some time checking phase on the waveforms and that certainly is a great but time consuming method. but i do so very carefully and i dont over do it. you can end up with a bigger mess then before you started if you arent careful. but more often than not i just rely on the phase switch on the pres or in pro tools, especially on things like the bottom snare mic. its critical for things like that.

you could always check out that little labs (did i get the brand right) phase controller that uses continuously variable phase adjustment pots.

thats my two cents hope it helps

 

[~BURNY~]

Thank you very much guys. I'd really like to have Andy and James point of view on this one. :Spin:

 

[Kazrog]

Obviously I'm not Andy but I would suggest that they did it by listening, moving mics and applying the 3:1 rule. I would also argue that this is a much better method than changing the time relationship between 10 different mics to match to 2.

Seems like it would be the best way. I've only ever done this with mics on a guitar cabinet. The last time I miked up drums was 2001, when I didn't even know what phasing was. I've been fortunate to have good people help me since then, but I always like to learn how to do things properly.

 

[Asmus_Thomsen]

Phasing issues is most important with drums, so here's how I do it.

1) place all mics (obviously), and then moving around until i like what every mic picks up
2) Muting all channels, except OH's, and then i eq OH's and pan them accordingly - making sure phase is alright (i check this in mono). When the OH's sound great then
3) I start pulling up every single drum, and leave the oh's open. When I can sense the drum blending in nicely with the OH's i start hitting the phase button - and then I go for the one with the most low end, as that should indicate better phase....
4) When done with all drums there might be small issues between the toms/snare but nothing serious - you'll always have phase issues...

 

[Exsanguis]

Whenever I use any more than 1 mic at once, I use at least one Little Labs IBP. I can't tell you how amazing this little box has been for me. I picked it up originally because of Michael Wagener's neverending praise for it, and immediately saw why. When using multiple mics on kicks, or any source, you can literally dial in near-perfect phase relationships, as well as creatively use it to control how tight, or how bassy you want something. It's an amazing tool with this feature alone, but also functions as a really superb direct and reamp box(the IBP tool is really useful for these processes too).