Phrasing/Soloing Practice

noble savage

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Oct 28, 2004
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Hi guys,

I was wondering how you approach practicing soloing and improvisation? I have been listening to myself play these past few days and I noticed, while I can play over many odd chords, it sounds like shit. In fact, it sounds just like I'm going through various scale patterns. :lol:

I want to try to build better, more melodic execution into my playing. Do you have any good methods, books or even websites perhaps?

Thanks.:)
 
Buy Hal Crook's "how to improvise". sheetmusicplus.com is the best place I've found to get it. It's an expensive book, but it's worth every penny. He really breaks down all elements of improvising (or music for that matter) one by one and if you work through the book the right way your playing with improve 1000%. It works best if you have a practice partner or a way to record yourself (even if it's just a 10 dollar tape recorder), but it's an amazing book either way. Everyone should buy it. It's written from a jazz player's perspective but it's more than useful for any style.

Two things I'd reccomend to help phrasing right off the bat:

-using a play-rest approach to practicing....are you familar with the concept?

-go buy Miles Davis' "kind of blue" and listen to the solos on every song. You don't need to analyze anything in depth....just listen and let things sink in

A few things from my own perspective (general ideas, not just directed to you):

-a lot of people get WAY too caught up on what to play (not choices and such) and completely ignore the "when" and "how" of improvising. If you have a solid sense of time, can phrase half-decently, and make use of dynamics/range/articulation, you can get through any chord changes with or without knowing the right notes. Obviously the preferred choice would be to have both ends covered.

-it helps to have a good grasp on chord tones before you start thinking of chord-scale relationships too much. I've always felt that approaching improv. from a chord-scale standpoint without a solid grasp of chord tones is like coloring a picture before you have your lines drawn. Get your chord tones down and the rest of the notes will happen without much effort. The next step is to get a grasp on how chord tones relate from chord-to-chord. This will help a lot with forming melodies

-for more melodic playing, trying singing everything you play before you play it. We guitarists have a tendency of letting our fingers take control and play things that we don't actually hear, and that's where the problem comes in. Singing, or even just hearing something in your head, almost always produces good melodic ideas because it's you're thinking purely from an aural standpoint and not from a physical/theoretical one. Your ideas might seem too simplistic at first, but that's ok. The better you get at it the more your pallatte will grow and more you can hear. Take Holdsworth for example....the guy only plays what he hears and sometimes it can get pretty outside. It always sounds beautiful and melodic though because he's playing legitimate musical thoughts that come from a deeper place than simply thinking "this scale relates to this chord like this and will sound outside if I play these notes and here's the fingering for it...."

-confidence. The worst idea ever can sound good if you play it with conviction. Even if you play something you don't mean, pretend you've been waiting to do it all your life.

-transcribing is the best way to learn to improvise, hands down. You'll learn more from transcribing and analyzing a few solos than you will in any instructional video or book. Pick 2 or 3 players who's sound you'd like to pick up on and just go for it.

-Learn your scales and chords/arpeggios front and back from both a theoretical and a physical standpoint and DO NOT over look the aural qualities (though those should come naturally once you start applying this stuff). The other stuff is more important, but this is not to be overlooked especially if you're stepping into the world of jazz/fusion. Yeah, a lot of the greats didn't learn this stuff, but they also didn't have the information as readily available to them as we do now. The better you know your shit, the less you have to think about it when you're actually playing and the better you can use it. Not having to think about scale fingerings and such while you're playing allows you to focus on the more important things.

-force yourself into new ways of thinking/playing. If something about your playing is bothering you, isolate it and make a conscious decision to change it. For example, a while back I realized that no matter what, all my phrases would start on the 1st beat of a measure. It was pissing me off, so then I made the conscious decision to never start my phrases there for a while. The goal is to be in complete control of every sound you make and not let yourself fall prey to habits or deficiencies.

-record/listen to yourself on a regular basis
 
for phrasing and melody, I would simply advise spending more time listening to the "feel" players. Then that influence will incorporate into your playing.
 
Thanks Meedley, that was an informative post.

By play-rest do you mean practice for an hour or so and then take a break?

I have a pretty good knowledge of scale/chord theory but I am not very familiar with chord tones. That sounds like something of interest and I'll look into it a bit more.

It's been suggested to me a few times that I should transcribe more music/solos. If it's that important, I'll start doing that again.

Thanks again, that was a helpful. I'll look into that book as well. $45 is a bit hefty for a book. Oh well.:lol:
 
Play-rest is a way of practicing improvising. Basically what you do is pick a tune to improvise over, then determine a pattern of playing/resting. For example, lets say you want to do a pattern of 1-1. You'd play for one measure, rest for 1 measure, and repeat the pattern. The catch is that you can't let yourself play on the "rest" measures. No pickup notes into the "play" measures, no sustaining notes into the "rest" measures etc. Start off with symmetrical patterns (patterns where the number of measures you rest and the number of measures you play add up to an even number). Start off with things like 1-1, 2-2, 4-4, etc. Then go onto things like 1-3, 3-1, etc. Any combination that adds up to an even number.

Then move on to assymetric patterns where the "play" measures and the "rest" measures add up to odd numbers. Things like 1-2, 2-1, 3-2, 6-1, etc. Keep in mind that any pattern you do can (and should) be reversed. This exercise accomplishes a number of things:

-by setting limits for yourself as to when to play, you force yourself to come up with more interesting phrases because you don't have the option of noodling around without direction.
-you learn to listen more to what you are playing and what you are playing over. Especially once you get into the really odd groupings, you'll have to learn to hear the changes rather than find your way in the form by counting. You'll have a hard time counting both where you are at in your play rest pattern and where you are at in the tune.
-for the same reasons as above, you'll find yourself keeping much better track of time. You'll end up trying to count both no matter how hard you try not to (which is a good thing in a sense) and on a subconcious level you become much more in-touch with time
-you'll be listening to everything else happening in the music and the other players can respond to you better. When you rest, if gives you a chance to think about what you just played and how to follow it up. If you are playing with a band or an accompinist, it gives them a chance to interpret and respond to what you play and respond in one way or another. You also get a chance to listen to the groove they are setting and play more accordingly.
-it's a great way to create tension in a solo, especially if you are constantly changing your play-rest pattern as the listener doesn't know what to expect next and will be very attentive

note, that this is more of a practice method than a playing approach. The idea is to practice the hell out of these ideas so that when you are playing you are more aware of the concept and can incorporate hints of it in your playing. I can't imagine ever sitting on a gig going "ok....there's one measure of notes, time to rest for 3....oh shit I played one too many notes.....oh no I only have one more beat to finish this idea...etc.".

For a great example of this, check out Miles' solo on this tune:
[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=U4FAKRpUCYY[/ame]

Take note of how he leaves space inbetween his phrases. Obviously, he's not doing a straight "ok....play one measure, rest one, play one, rest one..." but he's making great use of the concept. The space in between phrases is just as important to the solo as the phrases themselves. The song is called So What...off of the Kind of Blue album. Coltranes' solo on this is stellar too and is a great study in a number of soloing concepts.
 
yeah, the book is a bit on the steep side. It's used as a textbook in a lot of colleges and is priced accordingly:lol:

college text books:erk:

and yes, transcribing really is that important IMO (and the opinion of every teacher and pro. player I've ever met). Transcribing 4 measures of a solo/melody a day and really absorbing that 4 measures can have a major impact on your playing. I like to transcribe vocal melodies a lot, which can yield some pretty killer phrasing and articulation ideas. Learn to accurately phrase like a vocalist (or a horn player for that matter) and you'll have unlocked a whole world of sound that most players never tap into. It's important to apply what you learn to whatever music it is you're most into, as that'll make it more relevant on a personal level and you'll probably get more out of it. Even if you're transcribing a Miles Davis solo, try applying some of the ideas to a metal song of some sort.
 
That Miles Davis video was interesting. In one form or another, I think I have used the concept before but, I have never put a lot of thought into it. It's something I'll definitely work on.

yeah, the book is a bit on the steep side. It's used as a textbook in a lot of colleges and is priced accordingly:lol:

college text books:erk:

and yes, transcribing really is that important IMO (and the opinion of every teacher and pro. player I've ever met). Transcribing 4 measures of a solo/melody a day and really absorbing that 4 measures can have a major impact on your playing. I like to transcribe vocal melodies a lot, which can yield some pretty killer phrasing and articulation ideas. Learn to accurately phrase like a vocalist (or a horn player for that matter) and you'll have unlocked a whole world of sound that most players never tap into. It's important to apply what you learn to whatever music it is you're most into, as that'll make it more relevant on a personal level and you'll probably get more out of it. Even if you're transcribing a Miles Davis solo, try applying some of the ideas to a metal song of some sort.

I'll have start doing some Planet X tunes again then. I used to transcribe a whole lot but have waned recently.

Thanks Meedley.:)
 
Just a note. Isn't it crazy...all the internet bashers making fun of bands and guitarists. There's a lot of fucking around here, but I appreciate the level of maturity in this forum...it keeps me interested and coming back. I feel that opinions are respected and differences in taste are explained and discussed. Thanks guys! Cheers! You make an old guitarist proud...there is hope!
 
this is THE forum. i am possitive that i would love to hang out with every peroson on this forum. i wish we all live near eachother.

you guys have some really great ideas here. i can't wait to put them in use. thanks
 
this is THE forum. i am possitive that i would love to hang out with every peroson on this forum. i wish we all live near eachother.

you guys have some really great ideas here. i can't wait to put them in use. thanks

Certainly a far cry from that ridiculous Nevermore thread...I thought I might find some substance there, but not a chance...absolute wankers...a collection of spoiled brats.
 
it's a shame too, nevermore is a decent band.

but back on topic: does anyone recommend a specific metronome? the one i have (boss TU-80) has no volume control or headphone output. i basically have to turn my amp off jut to practice with it, it's so quiet.
 
Certainly a far cry from that ridiculous Nevermore thread...I thought I might find some substance there, but not a chance...absolute wankers...a collection of spoiled brats.

haha, sadly this is true :erk:

On the topic of metronomes, I have always used my father's old metronome that he gave me years ago...

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