Pick one: Do you think aug is...

[entanglement]

I think this is probably a bit more complicated than you make it out to be. Intimidation and abuse of women is pretty widespread throughout this kind of business. It's also probably pretty likely that a lot of these women had very problematic upbringings with some kind of abuse in their past. It would seem a bit off to think that well-adjusted women just decide to become prostitutes. I have no doubt that there are probably some "unproblematic" cases, but I doubt that that's generally the case. Something to think about.

This sounds a bit too naive. Like as if this view is based too much on stuff you see in movies. Prostitution is not usually out of lack of better options..(and that too isnt always because of a fucked up past) it's more often a case of the women taking the easier way out. I know somebody who used to be an escort in the 80s.. who now is a decent middle aged women with children and a whole lot of good heart. Had loving parents and everything. And from the stories I've heard from her.. most of them just didnt feel like getting a real job and went down the easier road instead.

 

[entanglement]

I often think that aug has some mental condition because he's consistently liked Bloodbath/Behemoth/etc. above all else for God knows how long, but, of the three choices, I'll go with chicken pot pie.

I love how you capitalized God there. There is a special seat for you in Heaven my friend.

 

[Zephyrus]

You've gotta be kidding. Were you laughing as you typed that? "Path of self-destruction"?

You, Cyth, and anyone else who holds similar views really need to just chill out. Also, there's a difference between having sex with a prostitute (where she is paid appropriately) and fucking a girl enslaved in a prostitution ring run by gangsters. Just because a woman is a prostitute does not mean she's psychologically damaged, or in any way different from us, and making blanket assumptions about it is foolish. You gotta do what you can to get by, none of you people have tasted desperate enough to know what that means I guess.

In a way, aug is just stimulating the economy.

This is laughable. For one thing, women don't sell their bodies simply due to economic exigencies, and even if that were the case, I could never make the choice to take advantage of such an 'economic sector' of society.

 

[Raina]

I am surprised to see that there are so few people that find aug's lifestyle far from admirable.

I find it morally wrong for anybody to encourage prostitution, simply because it treats sex and humans as a product that can be bought and sold. Although it is the oldest profession in the world (I hardly consider prostitution a job or labor), doesn't it occur to you that treating sexual activities as a mere transaction, simply puts a price tag on anybody? Because it sure depreciates the value of a human.

Also, human traficking exists only because there is demand. Although aug might only frequent legal establishments, such establishments will always get competition from places with cheaper and better 'products' trafficked from economically disadvantaged places of the world in order to attract the same clientele. So let's applaud him for stimulating the market and making business prosper.

For the record, my vote didn't go to chicken pie.

 

[Vimana]

doesn't it occur to you that treating sexual activities as a mere transaction, simply puts a price tag on anybody? Because it sure depreciates the value of a human.

I don't know about you, but the fact that some people are sold for sex doesn't make me feel any less valuable as a human.

 

[Raina]

I don't know about you, but the fact that some people are sold for sex doesn't make me feel any less valuable as a human.

Of course it doesn't. But it's only you (and people with some morals) who believes that.

 

[skeptik]

There's also the more pragmatic element of risking a myriad of diseases while engaging in such activities, ranging anywhere from herpes, to AIDS, to babies.

 

[SentinelSlain]

Before I lost my virginity, I was massively desperate. I still didn't use a prostitute even though I could easily afford one. For that reason I reserve the right to judge johns.

 

[waif]

The creepiest thing about aug is the imaginary emotional connections he seems to form with these hookers. I would probably find it less creepy if he just fucked them. Also, the rimming. Who the fuck wants to go near a hooker's asshole? That's just beyond disgusting.

As far as prostitution itself...I think people should have the right to do it and I'm not morally against the concept, but I agree that a lot of the people who actually do it do so out of a lack of better options and thus going to prostitutes is morally shaky unless you somehow know for sure.

I personally will never...participate in sexual activities outside the vagina

wtf

 

[Einherjar86]

There's also the more pragmatic element of risking a myriad of diseases while engaging in such activities, ranging anywhere from herpes, to AIDS, to babies.

This is really the only applicable argument in my opinion.

So many people who condemn prostitution do so by claiming it debases the sexual act, as though sex is supposed to be placed upon a pedestal of some kind. The sexual act cannot be debased; there's nothing transcendental about it.

As far as the aspect of feminism goes, let's not forget that there are male prostitutes.

 

[Matt]

This is laughable. For one thing, women don't sell their bodies simply due to economic exigencies, and even if that were the case, I could never make the choice to take advantage of such an 'economic sector' of society.

Oh? And I take it you personally have experience with it? And no one asked if you could make that choice, it's not relevant to the discussion.

I honestly doubt any of you guys personally know one. Most of you have led very charmed lives thus far and probably have been pretty far removed from such things. I haven't had the same kind of economic advantages most of you have had and, as a result of where I live etc, have met/befriended several women who support themselves by selling their bodies. One has a child (her husband left her) and if the income she made via prostitution suddenly vanished, she'd be on the street. She's not proud of it and is looking for any opportunity to leave the business, but she doesn't have any mental problems.

I'm not trying to say prostitution is great or even a good thing, but it has a purpose/place in society. Stripping/porn actors/etc all fall into the same category. I suppose you all find those things morally apprehensible as well?

 

[Der Morgenstern]

I'm of the mind that everything in life can be commdified and sold for a price. If a woman chooses to sell her body for a price in order to make ends meet, then so be it. There will be a market for it. However, this creates a grey area for women to be forced into the industry against their will and that is something I have moral apprehensions about. To put it bluntly, slavery of any sort is not cool in my books. There is no black and white in this discussion. Not all women enter prostition against their will, as not all women enter it to simply make ends meet because of extenuating circumstances.

 

[Onder]

You, Cyth, and anyone else who holds similar views really need to just chill out. Also, there's a difference between having sex with a prostitute (where she is paid appropriately) and fucking a girl enslaved in a prostitution ring run by gangsters. Just because a woman is a prostitute does not mean she's psychologically damaged, or in any way different from us, and making blanket assumptions about it is foolish.

So many people who condemn prostitution do so by claiming it debases the sexual act, as though sex is supposed to be placed upon a pedestal of some kind. The sexual act cannot be debased; there's nothing transcendental about it.

.

 

[cookiecutter]

Wow...

I don't think my worldview could possibly be farther removed from what you guys are saying. I really don't even know what to say to folks like you. It's like we're living in different moral universes. I think aug is engaged in really low behavior, and it really makes no difference to me whether he's "living his own dream."

I think I'm mostly with you on this issue.

My girlfriend is getting a degree in Gender Studies and this is the kind of thing she studies. I've learned a lot about sex work and sex workers from her and basically the only thing you can say is that it's morally complicated. It's not really correct to say it's outright immoral because that can condemn the workers, or it at least places them in a position of victimization or labels them unhealthy, which is not always true.

In some instances it might be an economic necessity for a woman and nothing else, but this also raises the point of economic (as opposed to psychological/physical victimization). Is that any better or worse? How can you tell the difference?

I guess my final thoughts would be that sex work is not necessarily bad or immoral, but it's fraught with pitfalls and even the most moral john would probably have trouble being perfect. As it relates to the thread, I'm sure aug's not a bad guy, but I doubt he's the "most moral" either.

I lost my virginity

lol, when did this happen?

 

[SentinelSlain]

Well over a year ago. I'm sick of repeating myself about that.

 

[Einherjar86]

I guess my final thoughts would be that sex work is not necessarily bad or immoral, but it's fraught with pitfalls and even the most moral john would probably have trouble being perfect. As it relates to the thread, I'm sure aug's not a bad guy, but I doubt he's the "most moral" either.

So what's at issue is not the act of prostitution itself, which is just sex for money. What's at issue is the fact that for some, there is no other feasible choice. Prostitution presents itself as the only option. This is not an inquiry that should then warrant a discussion concerning the morality of the sexual act itself, but rather whether an economic system that forces people into prostitution is a moral social system.

We should be arguing about whether or not such a system causes more harm than good. Does prostitution actually serve to prevent crimes such as rape by providing an outlet for sexual deviancy? Or should sexual deviants (this includes women, bear in mind) be put in institutions?

Personally, I don't think that the illegality of prostitution in any way combats the problem; it's similar to the war on drugs or poverty. We need to consider some radical alternatives.

Well over a year ago. I'm sick of repeating myself about that.

How long ago?

 

[SentinelSlain]

It would combat it if it was enforced with genuine motivation.

 

[The Emptier]

Chicken Pot Pie.

As for the discussion....

I won't bother partaking because every thread seems to turn into some blown up philosophical jargon.

 

[skeptik]

Chicken Pot Pie.

As for the discussion....

I won't bother partaking because every thread seems to turn into some blown up philosophical jargon.

WORDS HURT ME

I'll comment more later.

 

[cookiecutter]

So what's at issue is not the act of prostitution itself, which is just sex for money. What's at issue is the fact that for some, there is no other feasible choice. Prostitution presents itself as the only option. This is not an inquiry that should then warrant a discussion concerning the morality of the sexual act itself, but rather whether an economic system that forces people into prostitution is a moral social system.

I think we can all agree that sex work is unique in that sex, whether or not you elevate its importance beyond physical pleasure, is still something that requires more consent between both parties than pretty much any other mutual act. When economics enters the picture, consent becomes cloudy and correspondingly so does the morality of it.

We should be arguing about whether or not such a system causes more harm than good. Does prostitution actually serve to prevent crimes such as rape by providing an outlet for sexual deviancy? Or should sexual deviants (this includes women, bear in mind) be put in institutions?

Personally, I don't think that the illegality of prostitution in any way combats the problem; it's similar to the war on drugs or poverty. We need to consider some radical alternatives.

This is a very good question that I don't know enough to answer.