Please help me guys choosing guitar (floyd rose or not)

[006]

Jeff basically 2nd-ed my statement about the unison bends. There is no amount of spring tension or anything on this Earth that will keep unison bends in tune. Ever. Period.

Metal Overload - I would strongly suggest checking out the Tremol-No that I mentioned in my first reply to this thread. It's about $60US and is worth every penny. They work exactly as advertised and have a good warranty/gaurantee backing them.

As far as bla bla bla adjusting the springs, etc. to compensate for palm-muting and all that....even Steve Vai, even though it's honorary it's still a doctorate, a well-known virtuoso uses a pair of TremSetters in his main guitar EVO, and most of his other frequently used axes, to compensate for the bridge going up in pitch during certain playing techniques such as palm-muting where the bridge can easily be pressed down to raise the pitch accidentally.

I'm not saying don't get a Floyd-Rose, but I don't think a lot of people realize the disadvantages it brings to the table. I'm a pretty picky person when it comes to intonation, set-up, pitch, etc. So a bridge that, by it's very design, introduces these inadequacies into an instrument certainly would not be my personal first...second..or even fourth choice. The rest of the guitar would have to be pretty unique for me to want it with a FR. And even then I'd slap a T-No in it and block it.

~e.a

 

[Djabthrash]

All bridges change pitch when you palm mute, sence you are pushing the strings down you are affecting the "range" of the string.
But I guess you are talking about the effect of badly set upp tremolos? Like, when you are doing unison bends, and when you bend, the "basetone" aslo moves?
Because if youre guitar does that, you should adjust the spring tension by adding more springs, or the height of the tremolo + the whatyoucallit screws on the back of the guitar.

It is important to remember that the knife of the floyd should be alligned as close to the top of the guitar as possible, and the same goes for the bride nuts to the necknuts.
What I mean is that there should be a as straight line as possible nut to nut, and top of the floyd to top of the body.

+1

I have an Hellraiser C-1 FR myself, and once it's been properly *set* by my luthier, i have no real problems with intonation issues and forementioned stuff. But if you don't use the floyd so much i agree one should choose a fixed bridge guitar.

Anyway this guitar is badass... good choice !

How much did you pay for it ?

 

[Fivestringcult]

Probably get lynched for this, but Floyds are great if you want to use excessive tremolo wailing to cover up your shoddy solos like Kerry King.

 

[kev]

I kinda got over all this worry of being slighlty out of tune ever since I heard that when your guitar is tuned to a 440 (e standard), if you play a d chord or something, that d is slighly out of tune anyway. This apparently really grates on people, especially with near perfect pitch as you can imagine.
I've got more worries in within my music than whether my floyd rose is steeling a tinge of sustain from me too lol.

 

[JBroll]

Probably get lynched for this, but Floyds are great if you want to use excessive tremolo wailing to cover up your shoddy solos like Kerry King.

You could also use excessive wah and gain abuse like Kirk Hammett or harmonize obnoxious neoclassical bullshit with keyboards like nearly all of the power metal scene... shitty playing is shitty playing, blaming poor musicianship on the instruments is like blaming bad sex on your pillows.

Jeff

 

[Djabthrash]

Probably get lynched for this, but Floyds are great if you want to use excessive tremolo wailing to cover up your shoddy solos like Kerry King.

 

[Djabthrash]

You could also use excessive wah and gain abuse like Kirk Hammett or harmonize obnoxious neoclassical bullshit with keyboards like nearly all of the power metal scene... shitty playing is shitty playing, blaming poor musicianship on the instruments is like blaming bad sex on your pillows.

Jeff

haha even better

 

[JBroll]

I'd love to see a good discussion on the pros and cons of a gear without 'THEY SOOCK BCUZ KERRY KENG!' or 'VAI PWNS uR F@CE!' - I can almost ignore Fivestringcult's comment on the grounds that it took almost two dozen posts to happen, let's keep this FUCKING USEFUL, k?

Jeff

 

[Metaltastic]

Here mine - I adore Floyd's not only for the silly dive-bombs and harmonic madness, but for tasteful dips in solos that make fantastic accents - EVH of course is fantastic at this, but for a more current example, tons of solos by the Evergrey guys (listen to the solo on "Visions," off of Recreation Day, for example) use this technique to excellent effect, which has been a big influence on me - the first two songs on my myspace (see sig) both have solos tracked with my RG, and I'm really proud of the tasteful use of the bar that I put in there (esp. in the end solo of "Song for my Parents") - so in short, TOM's are my favorite for stability, comfort, etc., but I endure Floyd's for soloing cuz I just adore the extra degree of control over the pitch that I can use.

 

[STINNETT]

I agree Metaltastic.
In my opinion, my playing would suffer greatly if I didn't have the ability to add the sort subtle expressions that are only possible with a Floyd. (Not to mention the not so subtle ones).
If you don't like that sort of stuff or don't plan to do any of it - then don't bother with one. There's no arguing that they are more of a pain to deal with and you have to adjust your playing a bit to compensate.
It's either worth it to you or it's not.

 

[Metal Overload]

Anyway this guitar is badass... good choice !

How much did you pay for it ?

I paid 449 dlls for it, brand new is 799 dlls, so i think is a good price.
I think the guitar is beautifull, i still don´t have it in my hands, but tonight i will,

i do some soloing and indeed use the floyd rose but i use it for dive bomb with the six string, sound kick ass for some songs and all that. but i mainly use my RR3 guitar live, and will use the hellraiser sometimes, is a pain in the ass to travel with the Rhoads because the size.

Elephant Audio, i have checked the Tremol-no and definitly gonna buy it, i think is a really good invention.

I think the tunomatic have another point on its side because you can change tuning, but at this time i really dont need to change tunin because i can play standar tuned songs with the tuning im using (C#)

i feel that the tunomatic can give you a really strong and intense riff sound, more than the floyd, because you get more body, or is just subtle change?? i really never compared both

 

[006]

I'm not going to say you can't get a badass rhythm tone from a FR equipped guitar, that would be the dumbest thing to say. But, I will say that as far as, and this is all subjective to the listener and what they prefer, TOM bridges are concerned they do *in fact* enable more string+body contact which gives more low-end. As far as that being "better" than a Floyd, I can't say that, I can prefer that though. To my knowledge most people want a thick an beefy rhythm sound that crushes...but you *can* get that with a Floyd.

A quick example is my friend's Jackson CS Warrior that has an alder body and EMG-85 in the bridge and then my EC-1000 with mahogany body and 81 in the bridge. Granted I have an advantage with having a mahogany body, but my EC-1000 sounds rediculously heavier in all aspects in the same tuning. Like I said, it's not exactly fair with the alder vs. mahogany, but he does have an 85 vs. my 81... Any my unison bends stay in tune

The Tremol-No will kind of recreate of a lot of that string+body contact by solidifying a floating bridge.

~e.a

 

[Djabthrash]

I paid 449 dlls for it, brand new is 799 dlls, so i think is a good price.
I think the guitar is beautifull, i still don´t have it in my hands, but tonight i will,


i can play standar tuned songs with the tuning im using (C#)

You made a great deal !

I'm using the C# standard tuning also. Which string gauge do you plan to use ?

 

[MetalWorks]

I say get it for what you want it for!

I use Non Trem guitars for Live Playing because of the simple string breaking issues. I break my low strings from muting so hard every 2 weeks.

Even though I can loosen the floyd and pull the string down again it still takes time, tools, and throws it out of tune during a song.

But I still bought Ibanez's with Floyds simply for shredding on my own time.

If this guitar will be usefully both live and in the studio, get it.

If you just want a guitar that is good and dont need the Floyd Rose, dont get it.

The loss of frustration of tuning and changing strings not to mention string gauges alone is worth the extra money you say you would have to spend.

 

[Metal Overload]

You made a great deal !

I'm using the C# standard tuning also. Which string gauge do you plan to use ?

Im using 09-46 gauge for that tunnign right now, but maybe ill try thicker gauge, what gauge do you recommend me??.


"The loss of frustration of tuning and changing strings not to mention string gauges alone is worth the extra money you say you would have to spend."


Yeah, that´s a good one, but in other hand, in live situations, if i break a string with floyd rose i can use the same string again and set it up fast during the song or between songs (happened before), when i put new strings, i always let some extra for this cases, never cut it to short.

 

[Metal Overload]

Awww dudes bad news!!
Guitar was sold!! damn i was so secure that i even say "I Paid", just got a phone call from my girl, because she went to pick it up.

The history is: my friend went two days ago to that store and saw it there, take pictures, and my girl went Today and i give her the money to bring the guitar. damn! just a couple of days, and is a really small town in Tx. i really thought that the guitar was really hard to sell.

I have the money to buy a brand new hellraiser, but the Tune-o-matic one, 649 dlls brand new, 200 dlls more, but at least this will be new in a box.

 

[Djabthrash]

Im using 09-46 gauge for that tunnign right now, but maybe ill try thicker gauge, what gauge do you recommend me??

09-46 for C# standard are you serious ???

When i bought the guitar it was in 10-46 for E standard and that was perfect (tight enough for rythm, but not too tight for solo work).

Now after trying different gauges (12-54, 13-56... and for each of those having brought my guitar set up by my luthier), i stick with 12-54 which is the best compromise for tight rythm and solo work (tension is perfect for rythm (i tend to pick very hard), and a bit too tight for solo for me, but that's because i'm not much of a lead player and must enhance my finger strength at now) .

Anyway when i had to choose a gauge i asked many pro metal guitar players with the same tunings and same kind of guitars (25'5 scale with floyd rose), and they all had different answers : from 10-49 or something (Merauder guy) to 11-52 (Dying Fetus) to 13-54 (Misery Index... that gauge was too tight for me...)

 

[Kazrog]

Get the guitar with the Floyd. Floyds are awesome. Just ask James Murphy, is his tone lacking because of his Floyd usage? How about Chris Amott? Eddie Van fucking Halen??? Get a fucking grip...

I love fixed-bridge guitars as much as anyone, they have their merits and I own many fixed-bridge guitars, but Floyds have never let me down. If you already own guitars with Floyds then you are already experienced with them, and the whole zen of working with them. It's the guys who are Floyd n00bs who do most of the shit-talking about them.

 

[Metal Overload]

Yeah, i love floyd rose too, now the thing is that i need to find a cheap one.

About the gauge, i used once 11-52 by error, the 4-5-6 strings were really cool (i tend to hard picking too) but the other ones at 11 was a little bit excesive for me, i´ll try someting between that, know im becoming more obsesive with really hard picking (it feels nice to punish the strings haha)

 

[Fivestringcult]

You could also use excessive wah and gain abuse like Kirk Hammett or harmonize obnoxious neoclassical bullshit with keyboards like nearly all of the power metal scene... shitty playing is shitty playing, blaming poor musicianship on the instruments is like blaming bad sex on your pillows.

Jeff

Oh I agree - I'm not blaming the Floyd for any of that. I'm just saying it could be (mis)used that way. I guess I've just had bad experiences playing alongside guitarists who abuse the thing for that very purpose. If you're not likely to get carried away using it to excess just because it's there, ignore me and have fun.