Political discussions and other rants about useless things like culture

Well I'm glad you're not like most of the rest of the population and have access to sites like YouTube. What do you think of what happened at Tiananmen Square? There're some pretty strong videos on YouTube…, especially the one when the reporter from the BBC says "a man next has just being shot in the head" :yow::mad:.

When I was 16 years old, I downloaded a video about Tiananmen Square protests for the first time. It's a music video accompanying a song called Blood On The Square. It's on a Taiwan website (I guess). That webpage features some pictures and a short article about that incident.

I can't briefly tell you my feeling and exact thought now.

Our government is inexcusable. That's for sure.

Almost every young people in my age group somehow know what happened in 1989. We will never forget about that incident.

And, don't worry. There is still hope for my country.




I was in the car and listening to the radio, and they said that the DPRK admitted that they paid some actors to go and cheer for their team.

I did a research and found more proof such as airfare prices. And browsed some real Chinese soccer fans' blogs.
I can say the "hired fans" thing is not true.
But I have to go to bed now. I will try to write something tomorrow.
 
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When I was 16 years old, I downloaded a video about Tiananmen Square protests for the first time. It's a music video accompanying a song called Blood On The Square. It's on a Taiwan website (I guess). That webpage features some pictures and a short article about that incident.

I can't briefly tell you my feeling and exact thought now.

Our government is inexcusable. That's for sure.

Almost every young people in my age group somehow know what happened in 1989. We will never forget about that incident.

And, don't worry. There is still hope for my country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOXPgfZick




I did a research and found more proof such as airfare prices. And browsed some real Chinese soccer fans' blogs.
I can say the "hired fans" thing is not true.
But I have to go to bed now. I will try to write something tomorrow.

I'm glad people know about Tiananmen, it was something incredibly horrible. More than 3K people died, an enormous amount for a protest.

This also reminds me of the Domhnach na Fola, or "Bloody Sunday" in Northern Ireland. Totally unjustified shootings against protesters, with 13 people dead. Cameron recently "apologised", and it's certain that it's a lot more than what most governments do, but it still won't bring back the dead.

Back to China, it's certainly a very weird country. It's still communist in many senses, e.g. the way it controls the media (no access to YouTube) and oppresses the people, but more Western in that there're now, say, Dolce and Gabanna stores there. I'm sure the Chinese didn't expect that 15 or 20 years ago :p .

China's economic growth is very interesting, they'll move Japan from being the 2nd largest economy to the 3rd one (some extreme right-wing Chinese will be very happy with this, I'm sure). Japan is going kaputt anyhow, they've a humongous amount of internal debt. The Japanese government is also incredibly unstable, just check how many PMs they've had in the last 50 years… almost one per year hahaha. Back to China, the problem is that much of it's growth is due to, to a certain point, slavery. Human life is so undervalued there that US companies (and others) move there because they basically have to pay nothing compared to what they'd pay to a person in the US, or many other countries. Chinese workers are exploited beyond reason, and some simply can't handle it and just kill themselves. Like the guys who were doing the iPads or something.

Since I've never had the opportunity to discuss a lot of things with Chinese actually living in China, I respectfully ask for your opinion on the following matters:

1) China's over-population.
2) China now being the most polluting country in the world.
3) China destroying lovely panda's habitats.
4) Taiwan. Do you consider it part of China, or just let them be (independent)? What do people you know think about this?
5) North Korea - Chinese relations. Should China support a dictatorship? What do people you know think about this?
6) Japanese - Chinese relations. Do you hate Japanese people? How do you feel when talking to one if you've ever had done that? How do you feel about the Sino-Japanese wars? And, say, Manchuria?
7) If I may know, how old are you?

You don't have to answer right now, obviously, but I'm very eager to know what's your views (and what you think are other people's views) on those topics/issues.

PS: And I still think they were Chinese actors hehehe :p .
 
I want to demonstrate the truth about Chinese soccer fans first.
I believe some Western media distorted the facts.

PS: And I still think they were Chinese actors hehehe :p .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...o-cheer-for-North-Korea-during-World-Cup.html

"So far, a group of around 1,000 Chinese fans, including a group of actors and musicians who have been sent to cheer China in previous World Cup tournaments, will attend the games against Brazil and Portugal to cheer on their North Korean cousins, according to Xinhua, the government-run news agency."

http://www.vancouversun.com/enterta...an+team+World+South+Africa/3026611/story.html

A bit more detailed from the Vancouver Sun.

"In an effort to fill the empty seats, the Beijing office of the North Korean Sports Committee has begun to give tickets to Chinese fans.

So far, a group of about 1,000 Chinese fans -- including actors and musicians -- have been rounded up to attend the games against Brazil and Portugal, according to Xinhua, the Chinese government-run news agency."

So far I can't find that Xinhua report, though. So it's one of two things: there's a Xinhua report that exists that is the source of the 1,000 paid Chinese fans claim, or some normally credible news source made up the report and now every news outlet cites it in spite of it being a fantasy.

Generally speaking, Western news sources are a clusterfuck of news corporations. News organizations that regularly manipulate the news, such as Fox and the New York Post, are the exception rather than the rule.

Here is an article from Reuters.
http://af.reuters.com/article/sport...15?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true

" Hundreds of Chinese soccer fans, including artists and well known singers, have arrived in South Africa to lend their support to North Korea in their opening World Cup match against Brazil on Tuesday. "
.....
" The North Korean sports ministry authorised a Chinese sports PR agency to sell tickets for the game as few North Koreans could afford the journey or receive visas to leave the country. "



Here is a stream video (in Chinese) that contains a interview with the master of that sports PR agency. He said one will spend more than 40'000 RMB on the journey.
http://v.ifeng.com/s/201005/53ca6ef0-1def-4efd-b7d4-d5b57f8e0747.shtml

Here is a article written in Chinese from BBC UKChina.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukchina/simp/lg/sport/2010/06/100616_wc_gaoyi_north_korea.shtml
The journalist interviewed a soccer fan from Shanghai,China. He said that the journey to South Africa will probably cost him 60'000 RMB (8600 US dollars).


============================================

So, the fact is :

1. DPRK didnt give tickets to Chinese for free, soccer fans have to buy tickets by themselves.
2. These Chinese soccer fans that can afford the journey to S.Africa, are actually rich artists, singers and businessmen.
3. They are not rounded up. They flew to S.Africa on their own initiative.

---------------------------------------------------------

If DPRK could find 1,000 poor Chinese that want to act like North Koreans, they have to spend a large amount of money on flight tickets, clothes .... and wages.
And how could 1,000 persons receive visas that easily?

Kim-Jong Il needs money to manufacture more bombs. Wasting money on hiring actors doesn't make sense.

============================================

I browsed some blogs.
Here are some good pics of real Chinese soccer fans in South Africa.

http://i47.tinypic.com/n66lwz.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/33a9wz7.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lkectc.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/96lr8w.jpg


They actually met some real North Koreans when they attended the match against Brazil, but they didnt figure out how those North Koreans come to South Africa.
http://i46.tinypic.com/vhf4zl.jpg (The girl in the middle is Chinese.)

And our people did cheer on the DPRK team voluntarily.
We Chinese cheered on the DPRK team mainly because we have similar cultures and we are neighbors.

We people here are against any kinds of dictatorship. In fact, we Chinese often make jokes about Kim-Jong Il when we talk about DPRK. But our government often ignore what Kim-Jong Il has done. That sucks!
People here also think that it'd be very interesting to see a match between North and South Korea (or one between North Korea and the USA).

(Someone told me these North Koreans (about 50 persons) are MOP building workers that work in Namibia. They slept in the embassy of DPRK after attending the match. But I can't find an article about that.)
---------------------------------------------------------
More soccer fans pics and blog articles here:

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_49b1dbee0100jee8.html
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_552344880100j07p.html

 
That's what I thought. Thx for the links, Mr. Zhang. Some sources reported it correctly, that some 1,000 Chinese bought tickets and went to cheer on North Korea (whether they were encouraged to do so is not based on anything but circumstantial evidence, such as "who the fuck cheers for North Korea?"). But others, like that Vancouver Sun article, reported the FANS were paid to take tickets and go over and cheer for North Korea.

Although it's lost on most people over here that people in China do have long standing sympathy in some quarters towards North Korea, from someone who is aware of this fact you have to understand that it's still pretty telling that North Korea won't let its own fans buy tickets and attend. At least not those already in a controlled environment as workers abroad. So from the perspective of people on this side of the pond, having Chinese in lieu of North Koreans raises hackles.
 
I strongly get the idea that I'm the youngest in this discussion btw, might I be right?

Well, how old are you?

That's what I thought. Thx for the links, Mr. Zhang. Some sources reported it correctly, that some 1,000 Chinese bought tickets and went to cheer on North Korea (whether they were encouraged to do so is not based on anything but circumstantial evidence, such as "who the fuck cheers for North Korea?"). But others, like that Vancouver Sun article, reported the FANS were paid to take tickets and go over and cheer for North Korea.

Although it's lost on most people over here that people in China do have long standing sympathy in some quarters towards North Korea, from someone who is aware of this fact you have to understand that it's still pretty telling that North Korea won't let its own fans buy tickets and attend. At least not those already in a controlled environment as workers abroad. So from the perspective of people on this side of the pond, having Chinese in lieu of North Koreans raises hackles.

Yes, NK isn't really approved by most people on the planet. Again, try watching the BBC doc "N Korea Access to Terror". We're biased because we don't like NK, Zach is biased because China has "diplomatic" relations with DPKR.

Haha this is funny:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100624/tpl-uk-obama-poll-d1a0d5d.html

:lol: a survey of 1000 people within the US is not very valid, is it?
 
I'm 16 :lol:

Anyway, the formation of a coalition is failing here. Almost all of the possible coalitions have failed so far, so we're probably gonna have new elections in some time. When the "purple" coalition failed (VVD (Liberals), PvdA (Labour), D66 (Social Democrats), GroenLinks (Green Party)) Wilders said "we are saved from a disaster". I lolled :lol:
 
I wouldn't call disliking North Korea a "bias." Their country fucking sucks. Not everything is relative... especially in politics. Sometimes stuff just is. Kim Jong Il is a terrorist megalomaniac dipshit. Literally. And I don't throw around the word terrorist lightly. Basically that country is run by a gang of guys with guns and bombs, squeezing aid out of South Korea and Japan in exchange for not waging a suicidal but damaging war against Seoul. If having North Korea around wasn't useful to China as a way to squeeze the U.S. and Japan (which I don't take issue with; we do the same with Taiwan), that "country" would have collapsed a long time ago.
 
I wouldn't call disliking North Korea a "bias." Their country fucking sucks. Not everything is relative... especially in politics. Sometimes stuff just is. Kim Jong Il is a terrorist megalomaniac dipshit. Literally. And I don't throw around the word terrorist lightly. Basically that country is run by a gang of guys with guns and bombs, squeezing aid out of South Korea and Japan in exchange for not waging a suicidal but damaging war against Seoul. If having North Korea around wasn't useful to China as a way to squeeze the U.S. and Japan (which I don't take issue with; we do the same with Taiwan), that "country" would have collapsed a long time ago.

I'm sorry, I didn't express myself correctly. We're biased in this WC issue, but you're right, NK is a terrorist country, one that oppresses its own people for the sake of its governors/politicians. This pbviously happens in every country, but DPKR is incredibly extreme. Everyone there is so brainwashed that they don't really see that a person cannot write a book in 5 minutes (because NKs think Kim Jong-Il can).
 
As I side note, I guess most people have seen this picture of the earth at night which reflects the use of electricity and so on.

The zoom in of the Korean peninsula is fascinating imho.

dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg
 
While we're at it, I recently saw a documentary called "The Red Chapel" which is easily perhaps the most bizarre yet interesting thing I've seen in a while on the concept of tolerance in society. Sorry if it's seen as a bit random, but here's a little clip:



"An upcoming film about a Danish theater group which goes to North Korea, to set up a vaudeville, showcasing Danish comedy. One of the actors is a spastic, and the movie chronicles how the North Korean regime deals with the group and their ambition about 'giving pleasure' to the North Korean people"
 
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"Oblivion" and "dream" appearing back-to-back, out of order, is exactly what I was referring to!

I suck with Spanish. Second Language education (or "Foreign Language" as it's presumptively called in the U.S.) here sucks. I took four years of Spanish six years ago, and I don't really remember much. Well, except for learning the parts of speech in all languages, which they don't teach us about our own language here.

I wasn't sure if or how much you would be familiar with Lorca. He's most well known for his plays, but I only know him through his poetry. That, and he's Spanish. Obviously, Spanish refers to a particular nationality and a global language. I was not sure how far his works had made it; further (INCOMING PARTIAL IGNORANCE), I see that you are in a Spanish speaking country. I am aware that some countries that Statesians assume to be Spanish-speaking actually speak portuguesa, and I was unsure and too lazy to look it up. You are Spanish, I see now.

What is the quoted line, "Hay un muerto en el cementerio más lejano"? As I said, I don't read Spanish for shit, and I only identified the earlier one without my translated copy from homonyms. I see "cemetary", but past that I'm lost.

More on the Lorca-DT connection later.

Yes, Costa Rica is Spanish speaking. Put it like this: The only countries under Canada (didn't use US on purpose ;)) that don't speak Spanish are a few of the Caribbean islands (e.g. Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica), and… Brasil :p . A lot of indigenous languages are spoken, but CR is an exception in that the majority of people are Caucasian, not Native Indigenous (the only case in Central America). CR is a weird country in that sense, we're called "the Switzerland of Central America" (for this and climate and "development").

I'm not Spanish per se, even if my second last name is Hernández (which means "son of Hernán", the "ez" = son). It's weird because a lot of CRns (my mum included) feel that they're Spanish and Costa Rican. Which, to be honest, is just plain weird to me. (I'm an exception, since my dad is Canadian born in the UK, ohpa was German, and ohma was Latvian/British. Hehe yes, what a mess.)
 
Chinese workers are exploited beyond reason, and some simply can't handle it and just kill themselves. Like the guys who were doing the iPads or something.

iPhone.
I read news about that. People here often talk about that recently.
That's a problem.


5) North Korea - Chinese relations. Should China support a dictatorship? What do people you know think about this?

Of course China should not support North Korea's dictatorship.
I can often read bad news about North Korea on our media.
And many people are worried about that their military actions will lead to a war.

4) Taiwan. Do you consider it part of China, or just let them be (independent)? What do people you know think about this?

I consider Taiwan as part of China, but I don't want Taiwan to be controlled by our government. Taiwan seems to be more democratic. Taiwan should help mainland China to change.
Other people here also consider Taiwan as part of China.

6) Japanese - Chinese relations. Do you hate Japanese people? How do you feel when talking to one if you've ever had done that? How do you feel about the Sino-Japanese wars? And, say, Manchuria?

I hate what they've done, but I dont hate Japanese people.

I never actually talked to a Japanese before, but my parents rented out an apartment to a Japanese couple ;) (My hometown is Dalian city, many Japanese work there)

That's a war of aggression. Japan is militaristic. I hate that Japan hide the truth about the war and dont let their children know.