Prismatic Sphere, About the Democrats

[Nightwing]

Yeah, the TV and Internet makes you a PRIME candidate for knowlege of all things USA.

I would say selectively choosing which programs and documents to read gives one a very good insight yes - this is certainly a global community......e.g. most Americans thought Saddam was involved in 9/11 - now Bush says he wasn't. I never thought he was, therefore I was better informed than some 60% of Americans. Get it?

Like reading the paper will actually tell you how local businesses are doing better, and that the average joe schmo is actually having an easier time finding higher paying work now than they were six months ago.

I have yet to read anything in any publication that suggests there are not more Americans out of work than when Bush came to power, or that the deficit is not reaching unmanagable proportions, which will affect future generations for decades.....

Why don't you protest YOUR government about the troops IT deployed in Iraq?

I did, stupid, and Howard is still squirming on the hook about those WMD's which threatened us all..........which don't exist.

And do you seriously believe Bush is as much of a habitual liar as Mr Clinton was?

Probably about the same, but I'll take a lie about having sex with a woman over lies about justification for war any time......obviously you wouldn't. Some people, eh.....

Bush is a psychopath? Well, I pretty much laid out the groundwork on how Clinton was a sociopath in the other thread, maybe you could stop INSULTING people and list the reasons why you think Bush is a psychopath?

Only a psychopath would use lies and exaggerations as an excuse to go to war, and pump his fist and say "Feels good" as he was about to announce his intentions, not realising the camera was on him.
Only a psychopath would snap at a reporter "I'm the one who gets to decide, not you" when asked in February if the US was going to war.........and only a psychopath would mock a woman he sentenced to death in a childish and cruel manner - it doesn't matter what the crime was, an elected leader should never stoop to such ridiculous behaviour.
Like I said, he's a fucking psychopath......

 

[chemicalburn]

John Stuart on the recovering economy
"Congratulations record number of unemployed people-you're an anomaly."

Of course there is always a boom and bust cycle in economics so it would be hard to actually blame it on a single convenient scapegoat, but the way Bush is handling the situation seems less than prudent. You've got some goodpoints Nightwing and the rest on this thread which is refreshing considering the amazing amount of political apathy I encounter daily. It's good to see people that actually care about what happens in the world.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

 

[Nightwing]

Cheers chemicalburn. I think I care too much, it keeps me awake some nights.

 

[Prismatic Sphere]

HAHAHA Prismatic Sphere...I was thinking the whole time I read that...Man this guy should go Libertarian...then I see the reference in your signature. Are you planning on joining the proposed mass migration to New Hampshire to gain a seat in the Senate or House. It really is a shame that 3rd parties basically have little to no chance to get their views out, let alone get elected. Now I am not going to choose sides...yet...since this is much too interesting too have another join the fray. Now for some questions...which side (left or right for simplicities sake) has the more vitriolic speakers?

Sorry for the delay in replying. Yes, I'm an ardent Libertarian. Yes it is unfortunate that many of the 3rd parties don't have any voice(save the media darlings which are the Green Party). And even though I now live in the dragon's den(NYC), yes, I'd consider living in New Hampshire if it becomes the chosen state of the Free State Project, but I'd never run for political office. Too much dirt.

Now for your question.
Both sides have their smarmy speakers. But no one can gush quite as much as those from the left. Lady McClinton, yenta Diane pro-prohibition Feinstein, Tiny Tommy Dashhole, Teddy fucking Kennedy(you obviously heard what he said this week)....and the list goes on and on.
In the name of all that is silly, no one has created more imaginary hobgoblins and thus imposing more and more directives that the lefties. The environment is the perfect example. It's all surrounded by psuedo-science and quasi-religion. It's the perfect issue for politicians to impose more and more regulations because it appeals to your asthetic value of what's around you and your concern for future generations. If anything about the environment wasn't at bottom pure politics, occasionally the "reformers" would call for solutions that didn't call for more control over your life.

 

[duckattack]

Sorry for the delay in replying. Yes, I'm an ardent Libertarian. Yes it is unfortunate that many of the 3rd parties don't have any voice(save the media darlings which are the Green Party). And even though I now live in the dragon's den(NYC), yes, I'd consider living in New Hampshire if it becomes the chosen state of the Free State Project, but I'd never run for political office. Too much dirt.

Now for your question.
Both sides have their smarmy speakers. But no one can gush quite as much as those from the left. Lady McClinton, yenta Diane pro-prohibition Feinstein, Tiny Tommy Dashhole, Teddy fucking Kennedy(you obviously heard what he said this week)....and the list goes on and on.
In the name of all that is silly, no one has created more imaginary hobgoblins and thus imposing more and more directives that the lefties. The environment is the perfect example. It's all surrounded by psuedo-science and quasi-religion. It's the perfect issue for politicians to impose more and more regulations because it appeals to your asthetic value of what's around you and your concern for future generations. If anything about the environment wasn't at bottom pure politics, occasionally the "reformers" would call for solutions that didn't call for more control over your life.

The "left" (if you can truly consider old-money hypocrites like Kennedy and Hillary "leftists") may be smarmier (the one I always hated the most was Michael Kinsley), but imo, and I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom, the "right" (if you can truly consider deficit-spending corporate socialism advocates "rightists") have the upper hand in the media. (The "liberal-controlled media" debate should probably be left for another thread). Your average 'man on the street' is most likely going to get their daily dose of punditry from talk radio, or possibly television, and at least from my experience those media are the domain of the Limbaughs, O'Reillys and Norths. I guess there's always Jim Hightower, but I've actually never heard or read anything of his, so I don't even know where he stands on anything. The newspaper editorial pages seem to be the last holdout of the 'liberal press', but I know very few people who actually read op-eds, much less write letters to the editor.

As far as the Green Party goes, they were very much marginalized by the press here (here being Oregon), even though I would guess that they probably got more votes here than most places.

 

[possessed]

OK, well I'll say that what the soldiers are doing over there is a waste of time, not to mention a waste of money and a waste of human life. And I'm not a Democrat. You think it's disgusting that the Dems are politicizing a war - I think it's fucking obscene that the Reps have politicized the loss of 3,000 lives on 9/11 to ram through legislature that has the potential to turn the US into a fucking police state. I think it's sick that this war was staged in part as a supposed reaction to those attacks, when there was no evidence to support Iraq's involvement with Al Quaeda in any way.

I think the Dems are the ones trying to hammer the 9-11/Saddam issue home to any idiots who will listen to them. Put down the New York Times for a fuckin' second and realise that that 911 was never the big reason why we dealt with Saddam in the first place.

17 UN resolutions mean a goddamn thing to you?

If there are a few inconviences in your life after the terror attacks, deal with it. I hardly see this country as being a police state. If my children are safer, I could really give a crap just how much you are incovenienced. Nah, I couldn't give a crap.

 

[possessed]

oh yeah, the recession ended 2 years ago-musta been on 9-11

:Smug:The recessioin did in fact end 2 years ago (the same recession that started while Clinton was in office BTW) and the economy has been on a slow and steady increase lately. You may not have noticed however living in the wonderful state of California where Davis has fucked you all beyond recognition. Your gas prices are high, you had an energy crisis and your states economy sucks. Little secret for you Beast, IT'S NOT BUSH'S FAULT!

with jr bush we have the biggest umemployment rate since before ww2. he has increased the deficit more than any president in history-with his partys budget even.

The National Free Trade Agreement (which Clinton signed) has sent many manufacturing jobs overseas.

I have a big word for you Beast, TECHNOLOGY!

Modern technology has increased productivity to the point where it takes less people to do a job. I'm sure you have seen this even in your line of work (whatever that may be). It's happening everywhere.

he is the only modern political leader to win a war and have it hurt the economy instead of boister it. he is the only commander in chief in history to ever fail in his duty to protect the mainland US.

I seem to remember the WTC getting attacked back in '93. Any idea who was in the White House at the time? Jesus Christ, this whole thing was plotted out while Clinton was in office. You would have to be an absolute boob to deney that. To think that Osama planned this whole thing out and had his people graduate flight school all within the first year of the Bush administation is so far fetched, only the most loyal liberal idiot would believe it.

I'll tell you something else! The Sudanese offered Osama to Clinton four fucking times. Clinton and his cabinet refused to take Osama because it may have stirred "unrest" in the Middle East. Like the Middle East has always been soooooo fuckin stable to begin with. 3,000, potentially more American lives may have been spared.

I'd get my facts straight before I started blaming 9/11 on Bush.

americans arent dieing in iraq defending our country. iraq isnt part of the US-at least not yet! americans are dieing in iraq defending bushs political agenda-regaining control of the bush family oilfields that prescott bush lost when his assets were frozen by the house of reps for unamerican activitys for selling nazi's oil and after ww2 he had no legal recourse to regain his property in the new countries-but any mideastern country agreeing to honor US policys means that they are open to being sued for 60 years of lost oil profit...

Woah. Whaco alert!

 

[xenophobe]

I would say selectively choosing which programs and documents to read gives one a very good insight yes - this is certainly a global community......e.g. most Americans thought Saddam was involved in 9/11 - now Bush says he wasn't. I never thought he was, therefore I was better informed than some 60% of Americans. Get it?

No, most people had no clue Saddam was involved in 9/11. Get your facts straight. What, did you poll Americans? That's the first I've heard about it. Show me where you get this arbitrary "most Americans" bullshit please.

I have yet to read anything in any publication that suggests there are not more Americans out of work than when Bush came to power, or that the deficit is not reaching unmanagable proportions, which will affect future generations for decades.....

Did I mention anything about the deficeit? Thanks for putting words in to my mouth, you fucking brain donor. Most of the out of work people that I know HAVE been getting jobs and ARE getting back into the job market.

I'm also smack in the middle of Silicon Valley, basically the nations' leading indicator of where the economy is headed. Things start to slide here, six months later the rest of the country is there, and just as it is now, things ARE picking up, and hopefully for US they'll continue to improve.

I did, stupid, and Howard is still squirming on the hook about those WMD's which threatened us all..........which don't exist.

So you're a fucking Swami too? How do you know that they don't exist? I certainly haven't seen any myself, yet I don't doubt they might still be there. I want to see proof, the fact that they haven't been found doesn't mean shit. Grab your crystal ball and tell me what finger I'm holding up to the monitor.

Probably about the same, but I'll take a lie about having sex with a woman over lies about justification for war any time......obviously you wouldn't. Some people, eh.....

I'm neither on bush OR clinton's side. Are you sure you're not paid by the DNC? You sound like a brainwashed liberal.

Only a psychopath would use lies and exaggerations as an excuse to go to war, and pump his fist and say "Feels good" as he was about to announce his intentions, not realising the camera was on him.
Only a psychopath would snap at a reporter "I'm the one who gets to decide, not you" when asked in February if the US was going to war.........and only a psychopath would mock a woman he sentenced to death in a childish and cruel manner - it doesn't matter what the crime was, an elected leader should never stoop to such ridiculous behaviour.
Like I said, he's a fucking psychopath......

Ah, and you excuse Clinton's sending crusie missles to Iraq and Afghanistan on a regular basis, as well as carpet bombing Yugoslavia to be okay?

Gee you're a fucking mindless liberal. Why don't you get a mind of your own and think for yourself.

 

[possessed]

As far as hypocritcal actions, the republicans mostly do represent corporate America, though they aren't the pollution mongerers that the left would have the uninformed believe. Hunters and fishers pay, with licensing and tags, as well as donations for MOST of the maintenance that Federal Public lands use to hire game wardens, that track the population of wildlife, and help to maintain the balance of the land.

Funny, I live in the very Republican state of Idaho which some the cleanest air and water anywhere. Our state's economy isn't fucked to Hell and the average Joe (not a rich Joe) can make a good wage and buy a House. Could one say the same about the very liberal states of California and New York? No, I think not.

 

[possessed]

So you're a fucking Swami too? How do you know that they don't exist? I certainly haven't seen any myself, yet I don't doubt they might still be there. I want to see proof, the fact that they haven't been found doesn't mean shit. Grab your crystal ball and tell me what finger I'm holding up to the monitor.

No silly, you see, it goes like this. The WMDs never existed because nobody has found them yet. Using this logic we could also assume Saddam never existed as we have not found him either. That damn UN wanted Saddam to obey 17 resolutions for absolutly no damn reason. We can all see that he never had weapons to declare in the first place. And thats some crafty vast Republican conspiracy putting a fat man with a lousy mustache out in the desert and lying to the world about what a slimy dictator he was. In fact, he was probably a real nice man who earned a living as a guideance counselor for wayward children.

 

[xenophobe]

Funny, I live in the very Republican state of Idaho which some the cleanest air and water anywhere. Our state's economy isn't fucked to Hell and the average Joe (not a rich Joe) can make a good wage and buy a House. Could one say the same about the very liberal states of California and New York? No, I think not.

Well, our economy here IS picking up, despite what a certain nay sayer in Australia has to say about it. It's still tough. And you're right. An average 3 bedroom apartment is close to $2000 a month, with studio apartments being at least $800. The average 1.100 sq ft 3 bedroom home sells for about $400,000-$600,000 in my area, on a modest 1/12-1/20th of an acre.

All of the jobs that were paying between $12-$18/hr in the 80's and early 90's in manufacturing don't exist anymore. There are a number of high paying tech jobs, but many of them are taken by H1B visas, and the alternative is in the service industry, where wages haven't gone up with the cost of living in probably 20-30 years.

All said, there's no way an average working family can afford a house. Mortgage payments are easily $5000 a month, and property taxes about an additional $8000 a year.

 

[xenophobe]

No silly, you see, it goes like this. The WMDs never existed because nobody has found them yet. Using this logic we could also assume Saddam never existed as we have not found him either. That damn UN wanted Saddam to obey 17 resolutions for absolutly no damn reason. We can all see that he never had weapons to declare in the first place. And thats some crafty vast Republican conspiracy putting a fat man with a lousy mustache out in the desert and lying to the world about what a slimy dictator he was. In fact, he was probably a real nice man who earned a living as a guideance counselor for wayward children.

The funny thing is, the people harping about a lack of WMD won't acknowledge that Saddam indeed DID have various stockpiles that were identified, verified and catalogued by the UN Inspectors. Saddam didn't provide any documentation proving that they had been disposed of (if he truly DID dispose of them, he'd have thrown it in everyone's faces), and the containers and much of the equipment to manufacture them are now missing.

 

[possessed]

Here, in Idaho, all of our Congressional reps are Republican, our members of the US Senate are Republican and finally our governor is Republican. I bought my first house (3 bedroom, 2 bath, all appliances, large yard) and I am paying about $730 a month over 7 years. My interest rate is a whopping 5%. Could one possibly believe that this is all possible living in a state controlled by "greedy" Republicans who "only care about rich coorperate types"? What makes it all the better is the clean living out here. We get alot of Californians moving out here who seek a better, non-liberal way of life.

 

[possessed]

The funny thing is, the people harping about a lack of WMD won't acknowledge that Saddam indeed DID have various stockpiles that were identified, verified and catalogued by the UN Inspectors. Saddam didn't provide any documentation proving that they had been disposed of (if he truly DID dispose of them, he'd have thrown it in everyone's faces), and the containers and much of the equipment to manufacture them are now missing.

Umm, yeah. A logical person would reach the conclusion that if he had disposed of them he would have never had any reason to be uncooperative with the UN. He would have never had anything to hide.

Maybe part of the vast Republican conspiracy was to destroy the documents Saddam was holding after he had destoyed the weapons so no proof would be found.

 

[duckattack]

I think the Dems are the ones trying to hammer the 9-11/Saddam issue home to any idiots who will listen to them. Put down the New York Times for a fuckin' second and realise that that 911 was never the big reason why we dealt with Saddam in the first place.

Which is why I said 'in part'. And yes, the Bush administration practically bent over backwards trying to manufacture a connection between Iraq and al Quaeda. They toned it down because lo and behold, the connection wasn't there.

17 UN resolutions mean a goddamn thing to you?

Why should the UN mean anything to me if it doesn't mean anything to our leaders? But duckattack, the UN was sitting on their asses and not enforcing their own resolutions. We HAD to do something!!. Bullshit. Iraq was not a military threat, and their civilian infrastructure has been decimated since Desert Storm. I don't believe in the bogeyman, if you want to, that's your problem.

If there are a few inconviences in your life after the terror attacks, deal with it. I hardly see this country as being a police state. If my children are safer, I could really give a crap just how much you are incovenienced. Nah, I couldn't give a crap.

Actually, at this point I really haven't been inconvenienced. I mean yeah, taking my shoes off at the airport is a bit of a pain, but... Anyway. Again, you're misrepresenting what I said. I said the Patriot and Homeland Security Acts have the potential to turn this country into a police state. I didn't say it had already happened. If this makes you feel better for your kids, good on you. Like I said, I don't believe in the bogeyman. I don't think the government needs to track my credit card purchases and library records to keep me or your kids safe from terrorism. Call me old-fashioned, but I like to have secrets. I don't want CARNIVORE sniffing my emails for keywords that could label me as a potential terrorist. I don't want to be afraid of the cable guy reporting me for having the wrong books on my shelves. If the government is investigating me, I want to know, and I want to be informed of what they've got in my file, and I don't want to find out about it by being dragged off to a military prison where I'll more than likely be held incommunicado until their Star Chamber proceedings are concluded. The potential for this to happen to all of us, including your children, is real. Legislation that legitimizes this has no part in our Constitution. As that Masonic pervert Ben Franklin once said, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security".

 

[possessed]

Iraq was an enemy to the United States. They had a dangerous,fanatical leader who would have loved nothing more than to see the complete destuction of our country and it's people. The guy isn't in power any more and I'm pretty happy about that.

Who would have thought some old man living in a cave would have accomplished the destuction he had done? I'm sure this old man living in a cave seemed far from being an imminent threat to the United States, had even less resourses than Saddam, but guess what? He is!

I don't beleive in the boogeyman either. However, I don't underestimate the havoc these people can cause on our shores and abroad after seeing what I have seen. Driven purely on the hatred they have for the people in this country and our way of life.

 

[Nightwing]

No, most people had no clue Saddam was involved in 9/11. Get your facts straight. What, did you poll Americans? That's the first I've heard about it. Show me where you get this arbitrary "most Americans" bullshit please

.
Your own Government did it's utmost to link Saddam to 9/11 pal.......I will find the poll I mentioned, and post it in due course.

Did I mention anything about the deficeit? Thanks for putting words in to my mouth, you fucking brain donor. Most of the out of work people that I know HAVE been getting jobs and ARE getting back into the job market.

Well you wouldn't mention the RECORD deficit would you?? Of course you wouldn't. But yeah, I'm sure that despite all the oinfo in the seven or eight links I posted, plus a deficit that will run into Trillions in a few years, everything is hunky dory.

So you're a fucking Swami too? How do you know that they don't exist? I certainly haven't seen any myself, yet I don't doubt they might still be there. I want to see proof, the fact that they haven't been found doesn't mean shit

. Well Rumsfeld said they knew where they were pal. They were a 'direct and imminent' threat......and yet the 'Iraqi survey group' led by Bush's pal David Kay, who have had the run of the country for 4 months now, are postponing their so-called report - perhaps indefinitely. Also Blix and his team found fuck all - about what you'd find between Bush's ears......still......"Feels good" eh?
If you are one of the morons who actually believed Iraq could threaten the US with any weapons, there's no point debating the phantom WMD's with you.

Ah, and you excuse Clinton's sending crusie missles to Iraq and Afghanistan on a regular basis, as well as carpet bombing Yugoslavia to be okay

? Not particularly, no. At least that action wasn't taken unilaterally, whilst sidelining the UN, labelling it 'irrelevant', and saying 'fuck you' to any countries who dodn't want to support it.......unlike BUsh, who did all those things, and now has the gall to ask the UN for help.......

Gee you're a fucking mindless liberal. Why don't you get a mind of your own and think for yourself.

Oh now, that really hurts. Follow your own advice, you fucking drip. BUSH LIED. BLAIR LIED HOWARD LIED. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!!
We are poles apart on this.....I don't see a need to continue arguing with someone who, in the face of an avalanche of evidence to the contrary, still insists that he is somehow right........sounds a bit like BUsh himself, actually.
Out.

 

[Nightwing]

Iraq was an enemy to the United States. They had a dangerous,fanatical leader who would have loved nothing more than to see the complete destuction of our country and it's people. The guy isn't in power any more and I'm pretty happy about that.

Who would have thought some old man living in a cave would have accomplished the destuction he had done? I'm sure this old man living in a cave seemed far from being an imminent threat to the United States, had even less resourses than Saddam, but guess what? He is!

I don't beleive in the boogeyman either. However, I don't underestimate the havoc these people can cause on our shores and abroad after seeing what I have seen. Driven purely on the hatred they have for the people in this country and our way of life.

It's got nothing to do with your 'way of life' you fool........it's got to do with selective foreign policy, unquestioning support for Israel, and continued interventions in too many countries affairs........as well as supporting dictators like Saddam, and then turning on him when a new bad guy is needed.....your 'way of life' is not regarded jeolously as some model way to live - it is seen more as decadent, something to be avoided!
BTW, most people in the world think the US has a dangerous fanatical leader who would like nothing more than to see the destruction of many countries and their people!! Funny that!!!!

 

[possessed]

It's got nothing to do with your 'way of life' you fool........it's got to do with selective foreign policy, unquestioning support for Israel, and continued interventions in too many countries affairs........as well as supporting dictators like Saddam, and then turning on him when a new bad guy is needed.....your 'way of life' is not regarded jeolously as some model way to live - it is seen more as decadent, something to be avoided!
BTW, most people in the world think the US has a dangerous fanatical leader who would like nothing more than to see the destruction of many countries and their people!! Funny that!!!!

And yet 80% (save the guerilla warriors) of Iraqis support a US occupancy, do in fact desire the American way of life. Funny that.

More people have migrated to this Country in the past few hundred years than anywhere else on this Earth. Something "decadent" and something "to be avoided" indeed. Funny that.

 

[possessed]

More people have migrated to this Country in the past few hundred years than anywhere else on this Earth. Something "decadent" and something "to be avoided" indeed. Funny that.

At Nightwing:

Unlike your shithole BTW which is made up primarily of an ancestry of criminals who were exciled from Britain.