Russia invades Georgia

derek said:
Which is essentially the deposing of a democratically elected leader, no matter how the Russians cut it. At the risk of being haughty, it's hardly reasonable, Eric. It may be the only solution available to stop the bloodshed (which is getting way out of hand) but it sets a dangerous precedent for Russian behaviour.
Click to expand...

I think it's incredibly reasonable. Obviously the russians have a huge problem with him and possibly how he was elected (to an extent we'll probably never know). We do know that they really had a problem with what was going on in South Ossetia, and we do know that Saakashvili was ordering hostility in the area prior to russia's full involvement, and then cowered behind his allies when the russians finally did say "Fuck this, we're done with this bullshit". We also know that what we know may not be true. The reporting done on this entire incident has been "he said, she said". "We didn't attack Gori", "Bullshit, you did attack Gori!", "Ok, in that case, you called me a douche" "Bullshit, I didn't call you a douche, you called me douche!" "No, YOU DEFINITELY CALLED ME A DOUCHE!", "Fuck you, I'll get the USA on the phone to settle this right now!"... etc.

I have no sides I've picked in this conflict... without hearing unbiased reports it's hard to pick out who is right and who is wrong.

In the end though, If I was told "Leave office or your country is going to feel the power of the russian bear", I know I'd quickly get the hell out of office and retire to a life of fishing on the sea.

I just wonder what the hell went on behind the scenes, because there is something obviously there. I bet Saakashvili doesn't like Ushankas.
 
But how is it reasonable that the Russians are allowed to pick and choose who rules other nations? That same argument could be used to justify the US invasion of Iraq; just because we didn't like the guy in power and we have more guns, we get to void any possible electoral process that country might already have for selecting a leader.

(Granted, Saddam's process was anything but democratic, but it's the same basic principle).
 
I think we're on the same page (Eric) but disagreeing on what constitutes reasonable. By one perspective standing down makes perfect sense because it appeases the Russians and they'll stop rolling the tanks in, but it also sets a precedent for the Russians rolling in tanks to sovereign nations whenever they feel the need, and that's hardly what the world needs, no?

Pragmatically speaking, the Russians are hot headed and no amount of talking or threats will change their minds, in fact it may just make them more bullish. As a consequence, the only way to appease them is to give them what they want. The problem here is that they'll keep on doing this because they know they'll get what the want eventually.
 
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I laughed!
 
And shit starts up again... Georgia says the Russians attacked Gori again and sent 50 tanks in. This whole thing is so fucking wacky...
 
Now the Georgians are getting pissed off at the US because we told them that Russia would calm down with the cease fire treaty... And now the russians are supposedly geared and ready for a full scale Tbilisi surrounding, granted, are denying any plans to do so... they're just sitting on the road towards.

And bush is going to make a "wonderful" statement sometime in the next 2 hours about it. Wonder what that douche has to say...
"Sorry dudes, we fucked up".

Edit: Also, I'm getting real sick of these assholes in the news, former generals saying that we, the US, should get involved militarily involved. For fucks sake... REALLY.

Edit2: I'm watching Saakashvili talk to CNN... this guy is a douche. When your country is on the road to being crushed, words like "My people will never surrender" are not something you want to say. That's fodder against you and your people to make you look like the antagonist in the situation.
 
The folly of representational democracy. You elect someone and then they spend all their time baiting Russia into beating you down.

Stop watching U.S news, it's all bad. I get everything straight from Reuters and occasionally the B.B.C.
 
derek said:
The folly of representational democracy. You elect someone and then they spend all their time baiting Russia into beating you down.

Stop watching U.S news, it's all bad. I get everything straight from Reuters and occasionally the B.B.C.
Click to expand...

I read BBC and Rueters (and about 20 others), can't watch them here, sadly, so I've got to watch and try to nit pick whats right and wrong from the US news sources.

Bush just spoke, he basically said "Russia get the fuck outta Georgia completely, no more movement other then out". He's also using our military to send "humanitarian packages" into georgia...
 
I still think Russia is within its rights to do what they've done, although it's a bit overzealous. If it continues all the way to Tblisi, like we're seeing it now, Russia needs some pressure from the EU and the UN to get out of Georgia, whether diplomatically or militarily. I still think the US should stand aside.

It's simply a power play by Russia, to show the rest of the world that they're a force to be reckoned with. But in my opinion, this only washes away any doubts about the ballistic missile shield.
 
Had to rebump this thread for this quote:

"If I would ask you in response to the same question how fast the American forces can leave Iraq, for example, the answer would be as soon as we have guarantees for peace and security there," Kosachev said. "The same answer would be toward this situation."

In response to CNN asking for timetable on the withdrawal.

:lol: x20
 
Who cares about Georgia? Maybe Tom Clancy... I mean it let them sort it out, in a way they brought this down on themselves so there's no need to go to war with Russia over this goddamn shit.
 
Well, I am also in agreement on this, I've read quite a few 15 page magazine articles (respectable magazines) that pretty much outlined Russia/Putin's potential for this bullshit, and their reasons for going forth with it. I can see some big war coming in the next 10-15 years, best case scenario.
 
It all depends on view point. I find the clash quite fun, neither side is particularly right, especially in relation to the other.
 
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