Sell gibson and get a hellraiser?

[JBroll]

I have no idea what I'm talking about?

ok, well...

Schector is NOT an ESP company.

ESP, LTD, Edwards, and Grass Roots are, but Schecter is not

"In 1987, the Texan investors sold the company to Hisatake Shibuya, a Japanese entrepreneur who also owned the Musicians Institute in Hollywood and ESP Guitars (Schecter Guitar Research and ESP Guitars have remained to this day separate entities)." - Guitar World, Issue: September, 2006

and hilariously enough, Schecter states most emphathetically on their website that they are NOT associated with ESP in any way, shape, or form except sharing some distribution facilities in Japan.

They're made in the same factory. Paperwork bullshit aside, that's the point I was after. Then again, when was Guitar World anything but top-notch reporting on the real issues?

next,

Inexpensive neckthrough RG:

http://image.bizrate.com/resize?sq=400&uid=625085015

a nice mahogany neckthru rg for around $700 negotiable

and on top of your "my schecter owns my ibanez" the Rg550s were relatively inexpensive non-prestige RGs that lacked an AANJ and were the first models of RGs ever produced (1987). I wouldn't say the RG550 represent a modern Ibanez RG

I know it doesn't, but it's still a classic and it was very commonly used amongst metalheads in the 80s - a group that helped make Ibanez popular, whodathunkit. Also, 700 isn't exactly inexpensive... you may be ballin' wit da LACS bitches but that isn't a cheap guitar. Further, my Schecter isn't the top of the line, and I'm sure the original 550 would have set me back more when it was new than my Schecter did... and on top of that my Schecter came with great pickups and most Ibanez guitars in its range get their pickups switched out. Finally, few Ibanez guitars get the same chunk as a thick mahogany or ash Schecter, and there's a reason recording with the latter is preferred pretty widely here.

to be honest the c-1 classic is the one i had tuning problems with, and it's a rather expensive, tho not the best schecter around.

Grover tuners on that. Either you got a dud or you've got some high standards for tuners. As for 'rather expensive', it's $50 more than the Ibanez you just suggested as a 'not expensive' model. Whoops.

and for that matter, Schecter does not make a single guitar over $1000

Is that a BAD thing? Their low-end stuff is good, their high-end stuff is solid (and you can play fucking rhythms on it!), and all of it is about as affordable as a good Ibanez. Don't forget to add $140 to the cost of any Ibanez you want to compare with a Schecter to get some decent fucking electronics, and keep in mind that there's more to a guitar than soloing. Oh, and they have an awesome custom shop. I mean, if you like to jack off to how awesome you think you are because you play expensive shred guitars, that's a problem, but considering their build quality (from the same factory as the ESPs you suggested) and the fact that their stock electronics and hardware (SD and EMG, Grovers and Tonepros) are seriously good, under $1000 for everything isn't a bad deal.

any schecter you throw at me could not rival an Ibanez J. Custom nor any other non-bullshit guitar company

Ever played a Schecter custom? Seeing as how you failed miserably to count that in your 'no Schecter over $1000' bullshit, I'd guess no. I could throw a Schecter CS at you, and you'd break before it did, and best of all... it would have a decent rhythm tone. I've played some very nice LACS guitars, so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about...

and now with all of this stated, have anything else to add?

Yeah... there's a reason people on here hate tracking rhythm with Ibanez. You're also getting your facts wrong and slamming a company with no substantial complaints. Finally, you're coming across as a douchebag of epic proportions. In short... fail.

secondly, i didnt initially claim that anyone here was an idiot, i posted my two cents on this guy's thread, made some suggestions and personal opinions/experiences, and likewise got bashed by some schecter elitist with a goofy avatar

Schecter elitist? No more than you're an Ibanez elitist. You got called on a really sketchy claim (go ahead, say Grovers suck), got pinned into a corner with no better claims than 'bullshit guitar company' and 'issues with the build quality' (then turning around and recommending a guitar brand from the same builders), and made a total jackass of yourself by being belligerent and showing off with 'ooh, I only play eight thousand dollar guitars for 1337 SHREDZ0RZ'... you have a right to your opinion, but if you look like a twit while stating it you'll get called out on it.

Jeff

 

[JBroll]

On another note, ask yourself why you joined this forum: To learn something, or to tell us we're all a bunch of idiots? Most of the guys on here are really cool & willing to share info. Just don't get too defensive when someone offers something that defies standard guitar-player-mag propaganda.

Quoted for fucking truth. Contribute something meaningful, then try being self-righteous and obnoxious.

Jeff

 

[Brandon E.]

Don't forget to add $140 to the cost of any Ibanez you want to compare with a Schecter to get some decent fucking electronics

hmm you consider Dimarzios and EMGs bad pickups?

 

[JBroll]

No, but in the price range of the Schecters we'd compare you don't have the good DiMarzios or EMGs.

Jeff

 

[Brandon E.]

No, but in the price range of the Schecters we'd compare you don't have the good DiMarzios or EMGs.

Jeff

There exist Ibanezs below 1k that have EMG or Dimarzio pickups, such as my RG2550, but I won't join in on this argument

 

[JBroll]

Well, that one pulls about $900, and I can't say I think the IBZ are anything I'd choose over... well, most things. For $900 on a Schecter you can get SD Blackouts, SD passives, or EMGs... and have a few big bills left over on most models.

Jeff

 

[TruNikkaz]

i recommended the LTD because i like it better, and if you're offended for that then you need a box of tampons

just because the factory produces schecters as well means dick. i like the way ltds play, and i hate the way schecters play so i very well state this to him and if you dont like it then be a bitch and cry about it.

and wut is it with these douches claiming that you can not play rhythm on a guitar with a tremolo? it makes a difference, but barely any difference at all.

i didnt state an overly opinionated solution to this person, definitely not one deserving some ranting from some guy who probably sleeps with his schecter

btw, i said "rather expensive" schecter considering that there isnt any above $1000 in stores and it was only $150 less than that, not because i thought it was expensive

you know what you're talking about, i'm aware. but just because you do doesn't mean you should lurk around this forum looking for little clammers or flexible points that you can manipulate into a "you're a dumbass and i know more about this than you

 

[JBroll]

The problem was with the inconsistency in the 'build quality'.

Playing preference and build quality are very different. It's understandable to not like the big necks, but that was an unsubstantiated slam against a well-regarded brand and that doesn't fly too well here. I'm not 'crying' about anything... in fact, I'm finding this fairly amusing and wondering how long you'll last around here.

As for rhythm... yeah, OzNimbus up there has recorded more guitars than most people have seen, and those little microtonal inconsistencies wreak fucking havok on anything. BIG problem. You may not hear it, but saying it isn't there doesn't exactly make you look like you spend your life recording them, and he's pretty much as solid a trump card as anyone can ask for in that field.

I don't sleep with my Schecter, and you're trying to turn a well-deserved calling-out into fanboyism that isn't there. Preference is one thing, but you screwed up, period. Trying to turn this into a fanboy's wrath won't help you... in fact, it looks pretty pathetic.

I don't look for 'little clammers' or 'flexible points'... your error was significantly greater than that, and needed a correction. I don't need to attack people randomly to feel smarter than them - I know that much already - so quit trying to turn this into psychoanalysis as if that could save you right now. You're in a hole, and you're not exactly digging yourself out with that nonsense...

Jeff

 

[TruNikkaz]

Got my LP back and I still hate it.

I should just sell it and spring for a caparison or something

sorry for turning this thread into a jackass-fest

but i think the caparison would def. be an amazing alternative

they are great guitars, def. consider that option

 

[JBroll]

Those are sexy, wish I could afford one. Oh well.

Jeff

 

[Glenn Fricker]

and wut is it with these douches claiming that you can not play rhythm on a guitar with a tremolo? it makes a difference, but barely any difference at all.

Please refrain from name calling because you don't like my opinion. We try to respect one another here.

FWIW, this "douche" has clients in 7 different countries: all for guitar reamping.

I'm not making wild claims based on what I've read in a magazine. I'm making my claims based on what I work with on a day-to-day basis. You can play rhythm on a trem guitar, sure, but a solid bridge will sound better. If you disagree, that's your right. But don't call me names, especially when I've done nothing similar to you.

 

[everybody's x]

douche!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

As for rhythm... yeah, OzNimbus up there has recorded more guitars than most people have seen, and those little microtonal inconsistencies wreak fucking havok on anything. BIG problem. You may not hear it, but saying it isn't there doesn't exactly make you look like you spend your life recording them, and he's pretty much as solid a trump card as anyone can ask for in that field.


Jeff

Thanks for the vote of confidence there, Jeff! Three years ago I was fucking clueless about getting heavy tone to 'tape' as it were. Thanks to some very cool people around here, that's changed.

Stay tuned for a very cool release I got to work on with some friends from Quebec.

douche!

 

[Potshot]

In my course of being a guitarist, I started with an LTD VB400 baritone viper, moved on to an Edwards Explorer, then an ESP Eclipse 1 STD, an ESP SV-NT STD, and an ESP Custom shop Reindeer, I've also played a few other standard and singature series ESP and LTD models that good friends of mine have lent me at various times.

I have also compared these to a wide range of schecter guitars as another good friend of mine has tried to convince me that Schecter are better quality instruments. Build, fit and playability, Schecter and LTD are exactly the same quality, I prefer the feel of ESP/LTD necks, but certainly looking at the exact same quality so go for the combination of woods/pickups and neck feel you prefer.

Regarding the certain ESP/LTD varieties, higher end LTD's and Edwards guitars are of a similar level of quality, Edwards guitars to me seem to have higher quality materials and hardware but generally same sort of build quality (ie. good), big jump in the quality and craftsmanship on the Standard series and even bigger on a custom shop model.

Now, regarding tone and such on my various ESP's I've had, my LTD viper was mahogany, mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard, set neck with EMG 81/81, my Edwards explorer is mahogany, mahogany neck with rosewood fretboard, set neck with EMG 81/81, my ESP STD Eclipse was mahogany, with a maple cap, set neck with an ebony fretboard, EMG 81 bridge, EMG 60 neck, the SV-NT STD is a Neck through, maple neck, ebony fretboard, alder wings, single EMG85 in the bridge, Custom shop Reindeer is Mahogany, super thick one piece maple cap, ebony fretboard, neck through with a SD JB in the bridge and '59 in the neck.

The Explorer has without doubt the fattest bottom end of the lot as it has the largest and thickest slab of mahogany of all the mahogany guitars I have owned, the Eclipse also had a delightfully thick and meaty low end, the maple cap gave it a bright sparkly definition that was quite pleasing, and both of these sound surprisingly deeper and meatier than the Viper ever did, which I found odd considering the 24.75" scale length on both vs. the 27" scale on the baritone, the Viper had a very dark tone to it that lacked definition present on these ones. And yes, quite easy to tell a difference between all these EMG81 loaded axes.

Next would be the SV-NT STD, never heard it with the original EMG81 but I've heard a lot of people switch them out for the EMG85 as the maple neck through is quite bright, thinking about switching the 81's out for 85's in my other EMG axes after getting this, love the fat low end, just a huge warm tone, feels fantastic, very similar to the Eclipse I traded it for.

Custom shop model is simply phenominal, the neck is quite hard to explain, kinda cross between the neck on all the previously mentioned axes and a strat neck, like a half C/half D neck, everyone who has picked it up falls in love with it in a matter of minutes, the craftsmanship and feel is just flat out amazing, tone is great as well, for a while I was preferring the tone of the passive duncans to my EMG axes, but thinking about dropping an EMG85 in the bridge and maybe an EMG89 in the neck

 

[Metaltastic]

TrueNikkaz, that Ibanez RGT for $700 is pretty crappy - trust me, I own it The bridge is awful, so I upgraded mine to a Prestige Edge Pro bridge (+$250), the pickups are terrible, so I upgraded mine to EMG's (+$180) and the frets started wearing down in no time (though I still haven't needed to have them re-crowned, just leveled). Neck-thru is cool, but see my post before you went on your little tirade like we're at Harmony Central or on Xbox Live or some other haven for immature name-calling and defensiveness; if I could go back, I would've gotten a bolt-on model instead.

 

[TruNikkaz]

lol

im just gonna keep my mouth shut from now on

i can't be convinced that a bolt on would have changed your experience with that guitar. but of course that will be different for everyone else as for many reason you may just get a crappy guitar while others get the same one and it happened to hold up much better. my first post was mostly tied with my taste, i posted the comment and thought that it may pertain to the guy who posted this thread and it may not, but that's why i posted. i figured he might have been able to relate to my opinion without anyone getting bent out of shape over what i said. and my post may have been inaccurate but it's not like a got a response like "hey man, you know schecter and esp are made in the same korean factory and that schecters use good tuners?" i got one that basically said "you made a complete ass of yourself you incompetent noob"


and i'm sorry you dont like that guitar, but i have a friend who has it and loves it, and of course the bridge is crappy, you're not paying good money for the bridge, but my friend put in some rather bright pickups instead of emgs and gets a really nice crunchy tone out of it, and i rather like that guitar, it sucks your experience was so negative with that guitar because i've known quite a few people who actually enjoy it. but for the record, the only reason i showed him that guitar in the first place is cuz it seemed that he didn't believe there was an inexpensive neckthru RG. but can you please tell me why getting a bolt-on guitar instead of a neckthru would have solved all the problems you had with that guitar?

OzNimbus, I didn't really direct that comment towards you as I was directing it towards the guy who flamed me initially, and yes, i'm aware that douches is plural, but it was more of just an aggravated response due to the fact that i listen to many many many metal bands that of course play rhythms and shreddy leads with a floyd and use quad tracking and i've never seen where they had to use a fixed bridge to record. that doesn't mean that it won't cause problems and that those issues do not exist, i'm just saying that it seems like you guys are claiming you CAN NOT play rhythm with a guitar + tremolo.

but me and him have put that past us already, and i admit that i made some quite inaccurate statements and i don't think he really cares anymore. and sorry if i offended you as well oznimbus, didn't mean to seem like i was trying to belittle your knowledge on this forum.

 

[FULLMETALSPEEDO]

i'm just saying that it seems like you guys are claiming you CAN NOT play rhythm with a guitar + tremolo.

Nobody here is saying that you can't "play" rhythm with a trem. They're merely stating how difficult to RECORD rhythm with a trem is and keep in tune.

Things are being taken out of context here I believe.

Tru, this is a RECORDING forum. We all exchange tips on the best and easiest methods of making proffesional sounding RECORDINGS. I can PLAY rhythm on a broom handle with a rubber band but its going to SOUND like shit.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

OzNimbus, I didn't really direct that comment towards you as I was directing it towards the guy who flamed me initially, and yes, i'm aware that douches is plural, but it was more of just an aggravated response due to the fact that i listen to many many many metal bands that of course play rhythms and shreddy leads with a floyd and use quad tracking and i've never seen where they had to use a fixed bridge to record. that doesn't mean that it won't cause problems and that those issues do not exist, i'm just saying that it seems like you guys are claiming you CAN NOT play rhythm with a guitar + tremolo.

No sweat, dude.

For the record, and maybe this needs some clarification, yes, you can cut your rhythms with a floyd-based guitar... however, I'm under the opinion that a fixed bridge will be better for the application, and if given the option when producing, I'll ask the guitarist to work with a fixed bridge, regardless of what he's brought along.

....as is the case in a current project. I'm in the middle of a very technical death metal record that will be passed along to a famous mixer (he hangs out on here)... we're tuned down to a "B" & using 7 string sets on six string guitars. Originally, one of the guitarists wanted to use his early 90's Floyd based Ibanez RG somethingorother. He's retrofitted it with an EMG 81, but in all honesty, I don't think it sounds all that great. It was a mid level RG, I know that. That & the Floyd is beat to shit & so roughed up, it's cutting his hand during shows.
So, we've made the call to go with a fixed bridge.... ....and it required him to relearn his palm-muting technique. He's never really played on anything other than Floyds and it was a lengthy process. ...And well worth it, IMO. It's tight, well tuned, and heavy as fuck.

We did this based on advice from said mixer... someone who's opinion I trust and value greatly. We wound up going with a Schecter Hellraiser & an LTD Viper 400. I've always been impressed with the LTD stuff & it's a great compliment to the Hellraiser. I do agree that the LTD neck is a little easier, but I do love the Schecter's fretboard/action.
I do wish to add an LTD to my collection in the future.... something with a stop-tail.

-0z-

 

[JBroll]

So, one last round of corrections?

I like the 550. I don't like the 550 as much as my Schecter, but I like it.

Also, if you make a complete ass of yourself, you'll get called out on it. Maybe not by me, but you will. Get used to it.

No real personal problems here, though, so if you want to move on we'll move on.

Jeff