Shooting at Damageplan show, two band members dead

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okcham said:
GoD's a goth now? Way to marginalize someone because they're clearly more articulate than you, what a primal defense mechanism.

I had no idea literacy rates were so low in GMD.
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GoD's a goth? Yes, I think it's clear. In fact, that seems to be the overall feeling most people are getting. Look at his overall idea that Toorop seemed to quote perfectly:

Guardian of Darkness said:
I feel an Anus-esque rant coming on.

In your view murder and death are the worst things in the world. In mine, they are not. For me, the importance is in what the man who was murdered accomplished in life, and what effect that murder will have. I don't believe in equality, thus I don't feel that everyone is equally deserving of respect in life. And death is simply an end - the moment a person dies his worth can be evaluated as a whole, and only if that worth is positive should he be given respect.

None of this "respect the dead" crap 'cause, let's be realistic, he's never going to know about it anyway. None of this "pity those close to him for their loss" either; pity and sympathy are, to me, totally unproductive. Such emotions run riot in weak minds.


...........................
................................
Someone like Quorthon has my respect for having created something I consider valuable, but I won't claim that there was any reason for him to live longer taking into account that his abilities were certainly deteriorating. How can I say .................................................. ..........y basically leads to mass degeneration and weakness. I, valuing progression and mental strength, oppose it................................................ ...But if you feel that some deaths ....................................me in contempt for that if you wish, but I'm certainly no "worse" than you.

My view is that............................no reason to grieve his death, respect the man in question, or have much care about any aspect of these events, except possibly to analyse the effect they'll have on metal in general.
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This has nothing to do with how articulate anyone is. Do you understand that? This is a matter ideology, not intelligence. I have no doubt that Guardian of Darkness is intelligent. No one's debating that. I used to be like him with that same train of thought regarding death. Then I grew up. Honestly, just shut up if you're going to try to attack my intelligence.

I really hate all these prebuescant, pompous, arrogant, snobby, little elitist brats who jerk off to the sound of their own voice "out-witting" some "lesser human".

I just can't stand this plague of whiny snot-nosed pricks. What is it exactly that I hate about them? Most of all, it's their self-inflating egotistic attitude that they have to carry around with them that everyone has to put up with. "Hey! Look at me! I just said a comment that I believe no ordinary 16 or 17 year-old would understand! Aren't I so damn cool, unique, and deep?" "That's amazing! May I touch you?" "Do you have some kind of psychological issues that root back from your childhood that make you want to touch things far superior to you?"

I'm sure all the 15 year-olds you know worship you. "Oh my god! Did you see how much class he just put into out-witting that taste-less pariah? Haha! Did you see that pathetic excuse for a human's comeback? It had no wit at all! He used the f-word! How barbaric! YOINK YOINK YOINK"

So please, go do what you must to salvage your dignity and to make yourself look superior to me. This is the last you'll hear me talking about you, so don't expect anymore bait to use such clever, well thought out lines like "what a primal defense mechanism" again.

-Kronikle
 
Darth Kur said:
That's a total crock of shit. A gun is a tool, not unlike a hammer, screwdriver or an axe. All have the capacity to kill in the wrong hands. It's the person the wields the item that does the wrong's committed against others.
And don't bother saying that it's easier to kill with a gun compared to the aforementioned objects. Gasoline, when lit, can destroy that much more. Do you suggest banning gas?
Let's just for arguments sake say that guns are banned. The next step is to say that knives are bad. Sharp and deadly...they must go. Then perhaps baseball bats and any other club like items, ect, ect, ect.
Hell, let's get rid of everything and all run amok nude. But wait...hands cam become fists.....to bad we banned those evil axes...we could get rid of those troublesome fists.
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Anything can be used as a weapon. The controversy afforded towards firearms is in part due to the fact that guns are FAR more lethal than most other weapons when combined with the fact that they are very easy to use. And yes, it is a fact that guns are the easiest things to use. It would have been a little trickier killing Dimebag on stage with gasoline and a lighter, or to go unnoticed dousing the whole building with gasoline. Axes, fists, knives, fire...none have the ease of use, range and extreme lethality that guns have. Guns also make the intended victim more helpless when faced with them; with all the other weapons you mentioned, a victim is liklier to escape injury by running away or attempting to fight back. Facing guns, all a person can do is die, get lucky, or have their own gun to shoot back with... Sure, it is a grey area; what we can or should ban, and what we should allow, but guns in almost every way are quite distinctly more lethal. Less people would be inclined to get stuck-in with a knife or axe than simply pull a trigger. Don't be too outspoken with the whole 'Oh well, we ban guns, what's next?! Our hands I guess!' argument. It doesn't work. I also find it amusing that you mention the fact that guns are tools. I hope it didn't escape your comprehension that guns are tools specifically designed for killing living things. At that they excel.
 
Dr. K said:
But this is the consequence of uncontrolled weapons selling in some States of the U.S.A.
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He could probably just as easty have gotten a gun in any other country, like Italy, Sweden, anywhere. But I don't think this is the time to discuss this.
 
Demiurge said:
I wish I had his mother's email address so I could give it to Prozak.
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:lol: You are not a nice person.

This topic is the most entertaining thing I've seen on here in a while, and confirms my opinion that most people only care about tragedy insofar is it relates to their own situation. It's pretty pathetic, but the only member of the Idiot Brigade who's actually sticking to his guns (tasteless pun) and trying to keep this about respect for and updates about the dead is...MISTER FUCKEN TOBY, of all people. The rest of you are diving into this miserable excuse for a flamewar head-on and taking every opportunity to shit all over GoD. It may be justified, but it sure as hell isn't appropriate.

This is not to say that GARDION OF GEIGHNESS LAWL didn't jam his foot so far into his mouth that it's wiggling around in his rectum; I know from experience that he's capable of saying some pretty dumb shit. But he actually stated his case pretty reasonably before he got carried away by Anusitis.

Anyway, the overall message here is that you're all acting like twits, and I'm going to be the self-righteous shmuck who reminds you to get a hold of yourselves.

In other news, I actually listened to Pantera today. Cowboys From Hell is quite good. Other things are not.
 
I myself find it amusing when, once one of these threads has gone to a length such as this, a bunch of random people who haven't previously involved themselves come in to state that everyone is acting like a retard.

As predictable as any other aspect of anything here. That's predictable. Whatever.

It's all so formulaic. We can *plan* these threads to a ten page length before they ever get going. We should try it sometime.

1. Controversial news..
2. Disbelief
3. Shock and more news sources.
4. Grief and eulogies
5. Grief and eulogies
6. Grief and eulogies
7. Asshat with extreme misanthropic rant.
8. Flamewar backlash (also known as feeding the trolls)
9. Pseudo-philosophical and ideological flaming rants.
10. Stupid thread and close thread please commentators.
11. Self-elevated outsiders authoritatively point-out retard ringleaders.
12. Thread closed. (maybe, lets see what happens)
 
I suppose that's a valid point. But one should trust in the moderator's ability to detect the point of no return into nonsense, especially when it is the quite capable GoD.
 
Just in case a few of you guys forgot, Dime got FUCKING shot about 24 hours ago (or so, I'm unaware cause of the time difference) and you guys are talking shit out of your asses about each other and missing the point completely. Let's talk about the man and how he lived, not how intelligent you are, or how unintelligent the other guy is. Dime owned, let's make it known.
 
this is to no one in general. i think there are far too many chemicals leeching into your water systems, pumped into your food and being inhaled into your lungs from the poisoned atmosphere that surrounds you. as in any genre of music and/or life, there will always be the stupid moron(s) who will fuck over anything beautiful and good that they can. to quote Ani Difranco from her song, "To The Teeth", " If i hear, one more time, about a fools right to his tools of rage, I'm gonna take all my friends, and move to Canada, and we're gonna die of old age" think on that guys and goils. there is plenty of room up here for all the really smart cool people from the United Snakes. I recommend going to BC though, Ontario sux. Glad i got to see that crazy fucker twice, once in 96 with White Zombie and lastly in 01 with Slayer, Static X etc. both times my ears were ringing for three days. it was fuckin awesome, i dont care how much permanent hearing loss i incurred.
 
This is sad news, indeed. Condolences to those who mourn the deaths of any of the deceased. Cowboys From Hell is a great album, but the only album of Pantera's that I deem as such. The "Cobain effect" comment is right on--I believe this will come to pass in the near future.
 
Ok guys I am closing this thread. It really has lost its original intention. Let's try to move on with some good music discussion without feeling the need to bash others from here on out. Cool? \m/
 
anonymousnick2001 said:
Whew...what a thread.

For the record, GoD, I agree with you. Yes, read that again. There is a great difference between what you said and what that dipshit Blaphbee said. Namely, what you said had depth and was not an attempt to offend. It was simply misinterpreted.

My $0.02 is that there should be no obligation for you to respect DBD if you didn't like his music. There's no reason to respect anyone you don't wish to respect. We as people cannot judge other peoples' lives. We cannot know everything about another person. Our judgment is not transcendental or divine. We cannot deem people worthy or not worthy of respect. IMO, that is for God to handle. The lives and influence of others goes beyond ourselves and they cannot be evaluated.

If DBD's music did or does nothing for you, you have no reason to mourn. I was going to make a point about the need to mourn the loss of an innocent life, but you've covered that base with the explanantion of your philosophy of death's unimportance. Of course, this view seems natural to you. I, with my deeply religious views and Judeo-Christian values, mourn the loss, because I personally believe that although death is part of life, it is not easy for those who are left behind. We miss and wonder and pray that the departed's soul has gone to a better place. That is how I define "human" or "natural." I do fear death, because I'm afraid of no longer existing...but I don't worry myself into a tizzy over it all the time. Not everyone is like that. There is middle ground. I also wish to mention that my condolences go out to the other families who lost people in this tragedy. However, it's unfair for anyone to expect me to deliver the same feeling of loss as I do for DBD because I did not know those families or those others who were lost. I didn't know DBD. I only know what I've heard, and I loved his music and think he had a lot of talent. So that is why I mourn his loss. I enjoyed his music. Had I not enjoyed his music, I'd still be saddened because of the loss of innocent life. He had no ideology which he was advocating. Had the shooter had a motive of toppling the beer-drinking redneck empire in metal, I'd not have respected him any more. He still committed murder. This is hardly a cause worthy of murder. Metal is just not that important in the real world. It's just music. And I mourn the loss because I liked his music.

I do find it slightly unsettling that you have such a dry outlook on life at such a young age. A note of caution: don't make the mistake of thinking your view is superior to anyone else's. It is neither more or less intelligent than my view which I just stated. Your mentioning of strength and weakness leads me to believe that you see yourself as stronger than the supposed weak. This is untrue. I am also aware that you don'tr think all people are equal and disagree with my view, and that's what this is all about. Views. So I apologize if what I just wrote seems like a personal attack. It was just my expression of my view. Again, I'm bothered that what I say will make no difference to you, but I'm sure I'll get over it.

The bottom line is that you're not being nearly as much of asshole as everyone's making you out to be. ;) Take this from someone who values your opinion a lot. I simply needed to make the point that what people are saying are their own opinions or reflections on the matter. I don't agree with your view, but fuck anyone who says you're not allowed to have it. You had no apparent bad intentions, methinks.
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Cheers, Nick. Despite your humanist nature, you aren't blinded with hatred by every extreme and non-humanist viewpoint - instead you're willing to look at what I'm actually saying and react calmly and coherently without abuse. While I've probably said some things in this thread you don't agree with - things that possibly even shock or upset you, you don't feel the need to throw insults my way - you'd rather simply discuss. I appreciate that.

There's a few other people on this board who are similar, in that while they sometimes disagree with me they are able to remain totally civil for the most part, and do actually attempt to grasp why I believe what I believe and don't try to twist my words or misinterpret them. Rather than simply hating what I believe and reacting violently to it, they form their own logical opposition to anything they disagree with and accept the bits they do agree with. Lots more gets accomplished that way, and I have far more respect for things said by such people than I do for these incoherent anger-fueled insults. I made the mistake of being an unpleasant totally self-assured cunt on these boards once (I said some stuff back then which, yes, I do look back on and cringe about, because I knew even at the time of writing that I wasn't as sure of myself as I made out), and then decided I was lowering myself to the level of those I was condemning, thus I mellowed out and decided to attack things rationally in the future. I've done so in this case too for the most part, but it seems some people just can't get past the violation of certain taboos.

I'll also state that I don't take any offense to your penultimate paragraph, and I'll try to make my views on the subject more clear. While I think believing that you're infallible and omniscient is perilous, I also think that without pride and self-trust you defeat yourself, and with that mentality you'll accomplish nothing. Because of this, the only reasons you stay alive are to either get out of that mentality, or to avoid the death you fear and retain the comfort in knowing you exist. The former is fair enough - you're trying to improve yourself. The latter doesn't apply to anything that I care about, and also goes against some of my values, so it doesn't matter to me if you die.

I believe I'm stronger than many of you are in relation to the values I have. I consider such values more 'objective' than most people's because I believe I take more things into account than most people do. For instance, I fully grasp precisely why moralists/humanists/christians/etc feel what they feel and do what they do (it helps having been a somewhat passionate moralist myself), whereas most of them have little comprehension of my beliefs. Most humanists have always been humanists - the current moral standpoint is one forced upon all of us at an age before we can really judge its usefulness, and people struggle to break free of it. Whereas I see both sides of the coin and have picked one with a lot of thought. People try to explain away my views as being some kind of image thing, or use the "but... you're 16" ad hominem to devalue everything I say, whereas I don't do such things, instead focusing on my 'opponent's' actual views and stating why they aren't beneficial.

"Everyone should have free speech and equal rights, but human death is the ultimate 'bad' and to suggest otherwise is just plain "evil"" is what I feel that most of you are thinking, and it's silly to my mind. Sure, I know it seems like this makes me nothing more than a wannabe efficient machine, but be assured I find beauty in many things. There is no objective definition of 'human' other than perhaps what is natural, and the societies that have work most in harmony with nature have been ones with views far closer to mine than yours. Remember this.

Mr.Toby said:
Just in case a few of you guys forgot, Dime got FUCKING shot about 24 hours ago (or so, I'm unaware cause of the time difference) and you guys are talking shit out of your asses about each other and missing the point completely. Let's talk about the man and how he lived, not how intelligent you are, or how unintelligent the other guy is. Dime owned, let's make it known.
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I agree with you, for probably the first time ever. ;) Talk about fucking Dimebag and co and stfu about me. Of course I'm going to retaliate when I get shitted all over for saying Dimebag's death has no importance to me, particularly when I'm ill and feeling particularly intolerant, but I concur that this discussion is going absolutely nowhere.

I'd also like to add something I forgot to say from an earlier post: If one of my close family died I absolutely wouldn't expect you to show any respect whatsoever, and wouldn't value any respect you did give.

Anywho: Talk about the topic at hand now, or closage is inevitable. Considering you all make such a big deal about it, it's amazing how little a lot of you are focusing on the actual events.
 
Ah, Deron already closed it. Make a new one then, I won't intervene this time.

And whoever said I called them a Scotsman - ROFL. I was talking to Transilvanian Scotsman when I said that.
 
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