Spiritualism vs. Intellectualism

[Lina]

Originally posted by Sadistik
Unfortunately, one of the great societal paradoxes is that by saying "it's not ok", we are judging, which gives them the same ammo to fight back with as "they don't want us to do this, which isn't right. They need to be stopped". It is from this well of social conflict that all rebellions (physical and mental) come. So therefore while detrimental (in my opinion) to society, it HAS to be allowed, or we give equal cause for the opposite reaction (or backlash if you will). Therefore, backlashes, while necessary for change, inevitably stir up reprisal backlashes. It must thusly be allowed that all can have their own ideas, even if not "ok".

Doesn't mean we have to like it though....

Exactly right. Unfortunately.

Originally posted by Satori
some bizarre cult which involved them inserting purple smarties into their asses

And , XTOKALON, shame on you! Where have you been hiding all this time?! Welcome back!

 

[KielbasaSausage]

Originally posted by Satori
Before I retire to a night of chanting satanic verses, beheading chickens, and eating sushi, I'd like to pose a question, particularly to Xtokalon and Blackspirit, but anyone else who'd like to jump in:

Is it REALLY "ok" for people to have such a wide range of conflicting beliefs, beliefs which serve as justification for a great deal of antisocial behaviour and create social division?

Going further, where do you draw the line? If your son/brother/great aunt's cousin fell into some bizarre cult which involved them inserting purple smarties into their asses and kneeling for 4 hours everyday, would you think this is really ok? Or would you feel the cult is actually a bad thing and that they are wasting their short and precious lives chasing a pointless myth?

Satori

If someone i knew fell into this type of cult, i wouldnt give a damn. If it makes them happy, then thats all i care about. Who am i to say that them being involved with this "bullshit" is wrong? After all, its just my opinion and i shouldnt let my opinion get in the way of others doing whatever the hell they want to do. Live your life not the way others want you to.

What is the "right way?" I ask you Satori, is it the way that you would find "logical?" Being logical is an opinion, and its definition difers from person to person.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

It's interesting that when you are asked by a christian/catholic/spiritualist wether you are religious, and the answer is no, it is seen that you are a 'dark' person, or someone that is 'lost'

Spiritualists themselves think that they have 'seen the light', and that anyone who has rationally chosen not to persue a religion has NOT 'seen the light', and thus must be converted.

...But then, a lot of 'rational' people are so sure that THEY have seen the light, and can see religion is a scam, and either way, spiritualist or not, the other person is 'wrong' and 'lost'.

... Also, i don't beleive that 'spiritualism vs. intellectualism' is exactly the right term, for being 'spiritual' is alot different to being 'religious'.

 

[KielbasaSausage]

Originally posted by Trapped
... Also, i don't beleive that 'spiritualism vs. intellectualism' is exactly the right term, for being 'spiritual' is alot different to being 'religious'.

This is very true. and if it were changed to 'religious vs. intellectualism,' it would also be something indeterminate. religion and intelligence are 2 completely different things. lots of people who won noble prizes for intellectual achievments were devoted to one religion or another.

 

[Wolff]

Emotion negates reason.
Satori

So here's a different question for you: Can emotion ever have central role to good decision making? If so, is it at the expense of reason?

W.

 

[luke]

Originally posted by Wolff
So here's a different question for you: Can emotion ever have central role to good decision making? If so, is it at the expense of reason?

W.

Quite possibly so. Impulse often leads to regret, reason seldom does.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Wolff
So here's a different question for you: Can emotion ever have central role to good decision making? If so, is it at the expense of reason?

I agree with luke on this.

I regard emotion as a more primitive (albeit entirely necessary) aspect of our makeup than reason.

Emotion is just reacting without any sort of self-direction and very little if any control. In our modern human world, self-direction is very important to maintaining civility.

Of course, this is assuming that the reason is tempered with some sort of conscience and ethics (which are themselves spawned of emotion, so guess everything I've said here is crap, we can't have reason completely devoid of emotion (particularly empathy)).

Part of what makes this shit interesting is the fact that there are no easy answers and no right or wrong answers, just differing perspectives.

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by KielbasaSausage
If someone i knew fell into this type of cult, i wouldnt give a damn. If it makes them happy, then thats all i care about. Who am i to say that them being involved with this "bullshit" is wrong?

I see. What if it was your young child? Would that still be ok? Your kid comes to you and tells you he/she is dedicating his/her life to working for the cult and enriching/empowering the cult leader who is getting rich off their subserviance? Is that still ok with you?

I wondering where you personally draw the line.

I can tell you where I draw the line, it's when people start using lies and/or fear (typically it's both) to fuck with the minds or others. To me, this is unethical, particularly when children are involved, but even in adults who have the mental capacity of a 12 year old (and there are a lot of adults like this, a lot!).

After all, its just my opinion and i shouldnt let my opinion get in the way of others doing whatever the hell they want to do. Live your life not the way others want you to.

Right on then. So if your child dropped out of school to become a slave to some cult you'd be cool with it. Okee-dookey.

What is the "right way?" I ask you Satori, is it the way that you would find "logical?" Being logical is an opinion, and its definition difers from person to person.

In my purely speculative/subjective opinion (which is all I have), I think the "right way" is honesty. I feel that anything that is fundamentally/literally bullshit is like poison to the mind and it clouds perspective and impedes intelligence/reason. I think that anything that uses irrational fear to propogate itself is unethical.

I honestly feel that lying to the masses and using their own fears to limit their personal freedoms, regardless of the intent or result, is WRONG.

X would argue that it is there choice, but children are no afforded this choice, which is why I have such a huge problem with organized religion. Of course we can't take away a parent's right to tell their kids whatever bullshit they think is appropriate (lying is not illegal), but I think it is the gov'ts responsibility to educate the children in this matter to give them a balanced perspective. We owe them the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Satori

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Satori


I agree with luke on this.

I regard emotion as a more primitive (albeit entirely necessary) aspect of our makeup than reason.

Emotion is just reacting without any sort of self-direction and very little if any control. In our modern human world, self-direction is very important to maintaining civility.

Of course, this is assuming that the reason is tempered with some sort of conscience and ethics (which are themselves spawned of emotion, so guess everything I've said here is crap, we can't have reason completely devoid of emotion (particularly empathy)).

Part of what makes this shit interesting is the fact that there are no easy answers and no right or wrong answers, just differing perspectives.

Satori

I think emotion can play an important role in good decision making, and by your definition it is at the expense of reason.

Why are so concerned with religion anyways? Fuck religion - the internet is the new opium for the masses.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Wolff
I think emotion can play an important role in good decision making, and by your definition it is at the expense of reason.

It's hard to draw the line since it's all just subjective bullshit anyway, hhehe.

Why are so concerned with religion anyways? Fuck religion - the internet is the new opium for the masses.

I agree. And I think the internet will speed the much anticipated death of organized religion simply because the net gives people an almost infinite resource of information and education. Historically, religion has relied on the fear/ignorance/oppression of people to propogate itself, but now as entire generations of kids are empowered to discover reality for themselves rather than just blindly accepting whatever bullshit is forced on them by parents/society, this is far less likely to happen and I think the shift is already occuring.

Can you say "run on sentence"? heheh

So in a nutshell what I'm saying is this: in general, the more educated and informed a child is the less likely that child is to have their liberty of thought and basic common sense raped from them by any of the 101 idiotic/bullshit mythologies current in circulation on this planet.

Education is a good thing (unless you are Taliban or a whacked fundamentalist christian or something, in which case education is the "tool of the devil" to get you to "turn your back to god", hehhehe), so the internet is a good thing too. I'm pleased.

Satori