BM, DM, and religion

[Justin S.]

and once again for those who cling to fantasy: FREUD WAS WRONG. they teach it in psych class.

Wrong about what? He wrote about many things. Saying something that oversimplified reveals a total ignorance of the material.

Ohhh a psych class. Yeah well i saw on TV once that...
Kinda funny that the psych class wouldnt exist without Freud or his ideas.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Wrong about what? He wrote about many things. Saying something that oversimplified reveals a total ignorance of the material.

Ohhh a psych class. Yeah well i saw on TV once that...
Kinda funny that the psych class wouldnt exist without Freud or his ideas.

its oversimplified because i don't feel like writing a 4 page essay on here when nobody reads anything anybody has to say anyway, and instead post responses in short insults and stupidity.

yes, you're right that psychology wouldn't exist without Freud's work. however, that does not mean modern psychology has not advanced beyond his hypotheses and proven things he proposed to be wrong.

the TV comment was extraneous.

 

[Profanity]

and once again for those who cling to fantasy: FREUD WAS WRONG. they teach it in psych class.

and who proved Freud wrong?

 

[dorian gray]

Michael Shermer's *The Borderlands of Science* has a chapter on Freud. His references are numerous. I'm as surpised as you are that people still take Freud seriously. I was under the assumption he had been universally discredited. Oh well. Anyway, I lean towards Hannibal Lecter's assertion that psychology is not a science to begin with - more of an art. Psychiatry is the science.
We should move this to the "Philosophy" section.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

One of the reasons I feel that there is little relevance between the views of the artist and the actual music itself is the fact that many extreme metal artists (with the exception of black metal extremists) don't take their lyrics seriously.

Tom Araya in an interview on slayersaves.com:
What's the biggest misconception people have about Slayer?

The obvious one: the Satan stuff. I'm not here to fault anybody. And I hate to say this, but Christ came and taught us about love. About doing unto others. That was his preach: Accept each other for who we are. Live peacefully, and love one another. Period.

Do you believe in God?

I believe in a supreme being, yeah. But He's an all-loving God.

Can you see how people might miss that message in your music?

Yeah. And I don't fault them for that. Songs are open for interpretation, you know? It's like we can both be looking at a flower, but the information that we absorb is different about that flower.

Larry Lalonde in the book Sound of the Beast: The Headbanging History of Heavy Metal: "If you believe in all this Satan stuff, you have to be stupid!"

Quorthon in the same book: "I went back and checked my lyrics, and there wasn't anything there about slitting someone up because of his sexual preferences. I was talking about raping angels and masturbating on the golden throne up there, but I find it very hard to imagine someone raping an angel. I mean, these are abstract fantasy lyrics. For anybody not being able to take that as a horror story--an expansion of Tales from the Crypt or Black Sabbath--they're screwed up."

 

[dorian gray]

^i should hope so. we are all adults after all. to think that adult musicians are bowing to Satan is kinda naive. I'm sure there are some who really believe it but I probably wouldn't be interested in their music to begin with.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

^i should hope so. we are all adults after all. to think that adult musicians are bowing to Satan is kinda naive. I'm sure there are some who really believe it but I probably wouldn't be interested in their music to begin with.

I was posting that in response to Justin S.'s post about how he believes that death and black metal as simply music forms are directly linked to the views of the artist.

 

[deliverance]

Utter nonsense. Do you honestly think black metal is raw, dissonant, chaotic, etc. for no reason? If I were to form a band playing disharmonic Darkthrone-esque riffs, with fast drumming, and just make screaming noises for vocals, are you telling me that it wouldn't be black metal, simply because it doesn't have lyrics?

do you fucking read? he never made a claim even close to that. all he was saying was music sans lyrics don't give a message. SURE it can be emotional, OF COURSE it can be pigeonholed into a genre, but whether the writer was thinking of masturbating 3 legged donkeys or going on a roadtrip, is unbeknownst to the listener, without lyrics.

 

[Kenneth R.]

do you fucking read? he never made a claim even close to that. all he was saying was music sans lyrics don't give a message. SURE it can be emotional, OF COURSE it can be pigeonholed into a genre, but whether the writer was thinking of masturbating 3 legged donkeys or going on a roadtrip, is unbeknownst to the listener, without lyrics.

this along with what Vlad posted above i agree with.

 

[Du sollst dich töten]

do you fucking read? he never made a claim even close to that. all he was saying was music sans lyrics don't give a message. SURE it can be emotional, OF COURSE it can be pigeonholed into a genre, but whether the writer was thinking of masturbating 3 legged donkeys or going on a roadtrip, is unbeknownst to the listener, without lyrics.

Silent Song implied music can only mean something if he has the lyrics there to hold his hand and explain just what the musician is trying to say; I responded as such. Look, thoughts and ideas of the musicians influence the songs they write. It's that simple. If someone was thinking of what you just described, they would not be writing black metal music.

 

[RookParliament]

:clears throat: Good Christian music- Sixteen Horsepower and their album Folklore. Dark Bluegrass/folk. Listen to it.

Anyway even though I am an atheist I find a have no problem with religious music( Be it bluegrass, occasional Swans tracks, or Russian choral music) as long as I like it. That may not be a profound statement, but there it is. I wish I had some profound bullshit to spout so I could feel important. What a worthless paragraph. Fuck.

Lyrics are important to me. If I hadn't cared about lyrics I would never have listened to Emperor's Prometheus album more than once. But the lyrics alone were almost worth the price of the CD so I kept listening to it until it somehow became my favorite Emperor album.

Why anyone would allow their lifes experience to be curtailed because they fear for their non-existent soul is unfathomable to me.

 

[Profanity]

do you fucking read? he never made a claim even close to that. all he was saying was music sans lyrics don't give a message. SURE it can be emotional, OF COURSE it can be pigeonholed into a genre, but whether the writer was thinking of masturbating 3 legged donkeys or going on a roadtrip, is unbeknownst to the listener, without lyrics.

I personally think that some Death Metal acts are sick individuals who would otherwise be serial killers if they hadn't discovered music.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Silent Song implied music can only mean something if he has the lyrics there to hold his hand and explain just what the musician is trying to say; I responded as such. Look, thoughts and ideas of the musicians influence the songs they write. It's that simple. If someone was thinking of what you just described, they would not be writing black metal music.

no, that is incorrect. you have quoted me wrong.

i implied nothing, i STATED that lyrics (whether read OR heard) are the message of the music. any other message through the instruments themselves is purely speculation and up to interpretation.

 

[NFU]

<3 sixteen horsepower <3

 

[deliverance]

I personally think that some Death Metal acts are sick individuals who would otherwise be serial killers if they hadn't discovered music.

uhh, that has nothing to do with the discussion, but..it's possible.
though anyone who never discovered their passion COULD'VE been a serial killer.
actually i thought of maybe becoming one.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

no, that is incorrect. you have quoted me wrong.

i implied nothing, i STATED that lyrics (whether read OR heard) are the message of the music. any other message through the instruments themselves is purely speculation and up to interpretation.

Seriously. I'm sure prior the the Norwegian explosion there could have been some kid fooling around on his guitar and realized that you can make a really evil sound with distortion, tremolo picking, and discordant riffs, yet had no intention of making an anti-Christian statement. I'm not saying this happened mind you, but I'm making a point that a style of music can be discovered or invented without the intentions it's currently associated with. Look at classical music. There are a vast array of different messages depending on the composer you're listening to. You can't pidgeonhole a style of music--a fucking SOUND for God's sake--into a set philosophy. Sure there can be a demographic of people performing that style that share a common belief, but the sound itself is NOT inextricably linked to the philosophy.

 

[dorian gray]

uhh, that has nothing to do with the discussion, but..it's possible.
though anyone who never discovered their passion COULD'VE been a serial killer.
actually i thought of maybe becoming one.

bwahahaha! "i always wanted to become an FBI agent.........I also thought about making a dress out of people."

 

[Profanity]

Anyone who could write/share lyrics like "fresh served up on a table, shaved and cold, smells like teen cunt, not too old" and then paint a sick picture of it through music is obviously a psychotic hidden behind music.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

Anyone who could write/share lyrics like "fresh served up on a table, shaved and cold, smells like teen cunt, not too old" and then paint a sick picture of it through music is obviously a psychotic hidden behind music.

Nah, I've come up with some pretty depraved things, but never even teased the idea of carrying them out.

 

[Kenneth R.]

people write horror to face their inner fears or cast down their demons. others write it to shock people. the few who write it because they fantasize about enacting it are psychopaths, regardless of their profession.