BM, DM, and religion

[cthulufhtagn]

Owned.

uh, no

 

[milkman]

No question you can enjoy music without knowing/caring about the lyrics. Music that actually means something to you, however, will better stand the test of time and stick with you.

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Ahhh, good to see a nice interesting thread..Id have to say that overall i prefer my metal to be sans the anti-religious beliefs, mainly because it gets tiresome (and for people who dont seem to like religion they sure do seem to spend alot of time getting worked up over it). I dont mind the legitimate expression of anti-religious ideals, but I think this has become nothing more than a cliche, something that anyone can gripe over without putting any thinking into it, and expect to get universal nods and murmurs of agreement.

I do think lyrics are a vastly important part of music though, because to me lyrics help to convey what music means to those who wrote it. When i listen to Still Life I better understand what themes, what emotions, what ideas, what twists and what turns mean by understanding what the storyline is about. Sometimes this isn't as important, and the lyrics only have meaning in a metaphorical or atmospheric sense, or have little to no meaning at all, but I never presume this. Bah, to hell with all the explanation; i just like attempting to sing it to myself.

If the religious or sometimes political theme is higher in profile than the music, then something is generally wrong and I tend to avoid it. Some of the things that happened in Norway around the "true scene" just prove that there are mentally ill people in most countries as far as I am concerned.

Man, is that ever true. Whether Christian, Satanist, Muslim or whatever, theres still morons who think they know everything, and all else is subservient to them telling people this. I hate feeling like there is an ulterior motive to music.

As far as religion is concerned, I consider myself to be Irreligious. By that, I simply mean that I disagree with ORGANISED religion. I think it causes more pain, suffering, hatred, death and conflict than anything else I can call to mind. It is a global disease. Perhaps worse than that, it is a watertight excuse for some truly unpleasant people to do exactly what they want... all in the name of religion. We exist in an era that criticising someone's religious beliefs or motivations is considered more wrong than what has been done.

Does this mean that Religion itself is to blame, or people and how we warp ideas/ideals to our own uses? I think much of the problem with organised religion is that it has been politics thinly guised for far too long; nations would send out their chosen religious peons to convert a region before they came in to take it over outright. I dont like the idea of uniformly blaming religion for people being bastards; it just seems like shifting blame.

Don't even get me started on the hypocrisy of the Church. Anything that is holier than thou, but will cover up the exploitation of women, priests buggering choirboys and all other manner of ills to protect its holier than though pedestal is intrinsically wrong. Easier to be swept under the carpet though for most people.

Agreed. Buuuuut that doesn't mean that this has to stay the same, as organised religion is run by people, interpreted by people, and for people-oriented aims. If there is enough social pressure it will change.

 

[Longinus]

uh, no

Still sore about your shitty analogies? Get over it.

 

[Don Corleone]

I don't understand how some people can simply disregard lyrics. They're such a big part of a song and (IMO) can make or break it.

I like Type O Negative (no flamez plz!). I think they can make some really beautiful music but their "funny" lyrics can make me cringe. They'd be a much better band if they didn't think they were at all funny - because they're not.

tpe o negative can be dead funny at times,

and you know they have a lot of serious lyrics, too. check out "anethesia" from their last album.

 

[Don Corleone]

and there's already too much seriousness and dark romance with blood and so forth already. dont you think we need even MORE bands like type o negative who are just a little more intelligent and courageous to write sarcastic, funny lyrics?

 

[Julian Zembrowski]

I enjoy lyrics, they accompany the music well. I'm not religious but I'm somewhat spiritual and believe in certain aspects / principles of a few. But everyone has their own opinions, and thats exactly what musicians try to do. Express.

Personally I could care less if bands all say "WHITE POWER!! KETCHUP!!! FUCK YESH!!" because it's their ideals not mine.

 

[milkman]

It is nice to see metal bands with the ability to poke fun at themselves (Strapping Young Lad anyone?), but songs like Angry Inch taint an otherwise great album. I guess there's a happy medium as with most things.

 

[Kenneth R.]

btw: i don't ever talk about religion/beliefs this much, its just that nearly every worthwhile thread this week has been about such things

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

This is a very interesting topic for me, as I often question the seemingly paradoxical nature of my music tastes to my religious views. I am currently a practicing Roman Catholic. I do, however, hold the opinion that many of the edicts of the Church and its moral elite are just as fallible as any man's. While I'm sure many priests and youth ministers (not that I attend any youth groups) would highly discourage my musical tastes if they knew of it, I personally believe that there is no endangerment to my soul or morals by my choice of music, movies, and literature. I only take messages with which I agree as lessons to live by. The rest is all fiction to me. I actualy feel that being a member of the heavy metal community has opened my eyes to things that I would have been close-minded to had I not been exposed to them. I feel the fact that I have listened to music and spoken with people who oppose my religious beliefs has actually strengthened my faith. I don't mean to go off on a lengthy explanation of my spiritual beliefs, I'm just trying to explain how my beliefs frame my opinion of lyrics and music. In short, I have no problems with bands who oppose my faith as long as I enjoy their music.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i agree with most of that

from my point of view God created all, so all music is God's. but when people take that tool and use it to slander or defame groups of people (not organizations), i don't approve.

 

[deliverance]

kenny my boy, god doesn't exiiiiiiiiist

 

[Kenneth R.]

thats where the "from my point of view" comes in. feel free to disagree. :Spin:

 

[R0l0]

by that logic, if I created an instrument then all music played on it is mine.

 

[Botfly]

^Ah, but who created your supplies to build that instrument???

 

[R0l0]

^Ah, but who created your supplies to build that instrument???

the sun and the earth.

 

[Botfly]

:Spin:

 

[Du sollst dich töten]

LOL @ the people who think lyrics are important to a band's "message". If Morbid Angel were instrumental, would they be any less anti-Christian?

A Christian (for example) listening to black metal is the equivalent of an atheist going to Sunday mass. Maybe they can sever the MEANING from the MUSIC, and enjoy it on a strictly audial level while ignoring the true intent of the musician, but then that's the very definition of the word "superficial". Metal in general doesn't have to be strictly anti-Christian, but I question the depth of religious people (IE: people who believe in God) who enjoy the more extreme genres of metal, such as black and death.

 

[AlexGuinness]

I still think it depends on the motivation of the artist.

Some bands the lyrical content is abstract and just something to sing (first example that jumps to mind is The Sisters Of Mercy, try and find meaning in ANY of their songs). Mikael has, I believe, said that the lyrics are almost an afterthought and rushed off. Not sure I believe this or not, but it can be true of some artists.

Other end of the spectrum, you have bands where the lyrics are the reason for the music or band. In some cases, the only reason for having the release in the first place is to expose their beliefs to others. Extreme cases of this can be direct attempts to incite religious, racist, or any other form of hatred and violence.

I will discriminate against some of the latter bands, but that is based solely on my perception of it. I personally do not consider something like BodyCount's "Cop Killer" to be encouraging violence against the police, I consider it to be a piece of Social Commentary on the abuse within the law enforcement community. A brave move by Ice-T, but a very shrewd one. You cannot pay for the publicity that song generated.

Same goes for "my pals" by Clawfinger. A crude anti-racism track that shocked the world. People can be too quick to jump to conclusions and I think this was an intentional manipulation of the stupidity of society by the band.

Also as a little aside, I still own one of the original run of the "Jesus Is A Cunt" T-shirts. A very shrewd move that got their name EVERYWHERE. I personally don't think that was intended to offend for the sake of offending... if I know anything about them (and one of my friends is still in the band, I am friends with various ex-members) the intention was to get that all too valuable promotion. They had already tested the waters with their "Fuck Your God" shirts.

This brings me back to the original point. Don't mistake marketing or throw away lyrics for something that is intended to cause harm. Ignore being offended, question the motivation...

 

[Md Player]

I personelly listen what i like so it doesnt matter that its lyrics about satan or god or something.Im not a religious person and im not going to be one and for me no matter what lyrics is about it must be different and has a meaning.Some bands dont give shit about lyrics but it is important.BTW there are good lyrics on satanical themes too.