Still Life= overrated

in limbow said:
Liquid Diamonds, I was reading your track-by-track comparison of BWP to Still Life and I realized that BWP is a much stronger album, by far. The production is so much better, it's much more mature, and the worst full length song on there (I'd say Dirge) is still just as good if not better than the worst full length on Still Life (SPD)
Personally i like both bwp and still life shitloads, as well as mayh.. and pretty much all their albums.. its just a few songs im more fond of.. and im confused as to why so many people dont like serenity. whats wrong with it? (just want to know why ppl dnt like..)
 
Okay, I thought I'd let the entire anti-Still Life thing slide since there seems to be so many new members on here that favour the BWP and post material. Fair enough, I thought, since it took me about 2 years to get into Opeth's back catalogue and understand why it runs circles around the newer stuff (excluding Ghost Reveries, which I feel ranks up with MAYH and SL).

Now what really gets me is all this misinformation about production.

Here are 3 frequency analysis graph averages I came up with from 'Moonlapse Vertigo', 'The Twilight is my Robe' and 'Demon of the Fall'.

Moonlapse Vertigo

slfrequency4mr.jpg


Demon of the Fall

mayhfrequency5qm.jpg


The Twilight is My Robe

orchidfrequency0cb.jpg



Now with that in mind, I'm going to start addressing specific comments.

Still Life has a better production technically, but unlike the aformentioned records, it fails to achieve what it sets out to do.

Well that really depends. What do you think it set out to do? It certainly succeeded in giving reasonable clarity to songs which at times have in excess of 6 seperate distorted guitars playing at the one time.

I don't know about you, but I find it challenging enough to balance my vocals in mixes with just 2 rhythm guitars. Still Life's rhythm guitars were layered, and THEN you had all the leads and harmonies on top of that. I think all things considered, the midrange clarity of that album is fantastic.

Not only that but during a lot of parts there is even ACOUSTIC GUITAR!! on top of the layers of distorted guitars, and yet they still more or less come through.

Now I'm not 100% sure on this, but since Mike reffered to the drop-out errors being caused by the DAT tapes, I'm gonna assume this album was tracked to and mixed on ADAT. If that is the case, then whoever was mixing wouldn't have had NEARLY as much versatility as Steve Wilson did using Logic, which is a HD-based system. To put it simply... Still Life's tracking methods more than likely have more in common with the old analogue days of recording than they do with teh new HD-based ways (minus the fact that ADATs are digital). They still would've had to use the desk for automation, actual outboard gear for effects etc. No convenience of plug-ins which Opeth got in the BWP and post era.

It doesn't have the depth it should have.

Is that another way of saying you want the album to have more reverb? I don't understand. It has plenty of depth to me.. in particular those parts where there is almost a symphony of guitars interplaying with each other. The one thing that Still Life DOES have over every other album Opeth have ever done is depth. It has depth galore. Actually it's so damn deep that nothing would ever spill out :p.

The clean vocals are better mixed than on the first 2 records, and stronger, but they are treated badly.

I don't get that vibe at all. But I suppose that's more of a subjective thing than anything else. To me the vocals on MAYH... or actually most elements of MAYH have wayyy too much reverb. Case in point: Mike's little thing at the end of 'When' you know the whole 'when can I take you from this place...' thing. The only reason taht seems to cut through the mix is because the damn verb is everywhere. It's all you can hear! Actually I think for that part they must've mixed in more verb than actual dry signal :lol:

They lack the warmth they had on MAYH.

Yep, they do, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The vocals on Still Life are crunchier. There's a rawer upper midrange there and it really brings out that back-throat, gargling area of his voice. Helps the growls and all. Fantastic thing is that the clean vocals cut through perfectly during the heavier parts.

It's muddy.

That's because there's actual midrange in the guitars now. All the guitar sounds they pulled prior to Still Life were quite harsh and dry. For Orchid and Morningrise that should go without saying. The guitar sounds are abysmal. For MAYH, they're just really raw and crunchy, which I find really odd considering it was a 5150 head they used. I've honestly never heard those things emit anything OTHER than midrange, until Opeth used em, haha!

I mean just compare the midrange graph of Twilight is my Robe to that of Moonlapse vertigo. The midrange for Orchid is all over the place, no doubt contributing to that harsh sound that makes your ears want to bleed. For SL there's a big peak around the 2.2k mark, but aside from that, it seems pretty smooth sailing. I mean it stands to reason, if you look at all the graphs, you see that Still Life has the most gradual curves, kind of coinciding with the fact that its the least harsh on the ears. It's smoother, not muddy.

Yeah, the production is very muddy and you can barely hear any bass.

Ah yes, bass.

Well if we're talking about albums where the bass guitar can't be heard, I think MAYH can take the cake. I think if we talk about albums where you don't WANT to hear the bass, Orchid and Morningrise take it.

When it comes to bass frequencies in general, Still Life (judging from the graphs) seems to have the highest overall amount of hearable bass. MAYH has a shitload of that sub 62Hz bass which consitutes a lot of rumbling and accounts for the fact that my entire room shakes whenever that kick is hit. There's way too much 'wowoaorooroaooOROOOROoom' rumble happening during the entirety of MAYH to really play it loud on a big speaker system. I mean THAT is my definition of muddy. The drivers on my speakers aren't even that large.

But all things considered, is there anything worthwhile about hearing the bass guitar on Still Life? I don't really think it does that many things that are interesting. Face of Melinda probably has the biggest amount of non-standard bass, and for that track you can more or less hear it.
 
in limbow said:
*gulp*

OK, I know I'm going to get flamed x 1000 for this but recently I've been thinking and Still Life maybe really isn't one of Opeth's best albums. (I know Liquid Diamonds at least will agree with me on this). If you do a track-by-track comparison of Still Life vs MAYH, it's easy to see which one is just altogether a stronger album.
By the way, I still do love Still Life in general, and it did used to hold a place as my favorite Opeth album. I've just been doubting that recently.
Prologue/April Ethereal vs The Moor: The Moor is an amazing song but AE has that extra something that just makes it a little bit better. Plus, Prologue is a better way to start than the beginning of The Moor (a little too long)
When vs Godhead's Lament: This is an easy one. When is surely one of Opeth's best songs, and one of their signature tunes in that it does a good job of summarizing the Opeth "sound". The acoustic parts are beautiful, the heavy parts are great, the vocals are epic, its an amazing song. Now, GL has probably one of Opeth's best moments (the part starting with the guitar solo and ending after the folksy clean vocal melody), but the verses feel tired and the part between the folk section and the end is nothing special.
Benighted vs Madrigal: Benighted easily wins this one, it is beautiful and Madrigal isn't much of a song.
The Amen Corner vs Moonlapse Vertigo: Moonlapse is terrific and I love that beautiful riff near the beginning, and the acoustic verses. Nice solo, too. This is a close one, and it's pretty much even, both are very solid Opeth songs.
Face of Melinda vs Demon of the Fall: Both are classic songs and I would rank Face of Melinda easily in my top 10 or 20 Opeth songs. However, DOTF is definitely overall better, maybe my favorite Opeth song, ever.
Serenity Painted Death vs Credence: Even though I feel it's one of Opeth's weakest "epic" songs, I would take SPD over Credence just because the latter doesn't stand out quite as much.
White Cluster vs Karma/Epilogue: White Cluster is a very nice ending to Still Life, though I think Karma is even more beautiful, with those "aaahh" vocals and some great death metal vox at the end. Plus Epilogue knocks that brief guitar interlude at the end of White Cluster out of the park.

I know it's all opinion, but I was just wondering if there's anyone else who thinks Still Life isn't quite what it's cracked up to be. Even so, it is probably a 10/10 album, just not Opeth's very best as many say.
FLAME F FL FLAM FLAME FLAMEEEEE !!!!!!!
 
Well, I still think the sound is lacking (as a personal preference to my ears), but big respect to Moonlapse for making me feel very stupid :lol:

I still think I have lots of valid points though. And when I was talking about vocals, I was mainly referring to cleans, the growls probably are mixed better on SL. I guess it's just a matter of taste. For example, it seems as though Moonlapse isn't overly fond of Orchid, whereas I enjoy it immensely (despite the appaling mix of the clean vox, which is the worst thing about it to me...along with the appalling guitar sound :lol: )
 
Liquid Diamonds said:
/compares BWP to SL
Dude, the only comparison in there that was feasible was Benighted vs. Harvest, in which Harvest is definitely better. The rest of the songs on those records are definitely of equal quality OR Still Life comes out better.

Moonlapse: Good post, except for knocking the bass on Morningrise :confused: I can't understand not loving that bass playing.

Anyway I don't think I'll post much more in this thread, people's opinions aren't going to change based on others'.
 
Still life to me is still a very borning and uninspired album and not as good sounding to my ears as BWP. Another thing that annoys me about that album is the White Cluster solo. At the end they do a very technical and long solo or a series of solos and you can't barely hear them over the rhythm guitars. THE LEADS AND SOLOS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE MOST AUDIBLE!!!!! Why go throgh all that wankery if you mix the ryhthms over it??
 
There are only underrestimated Opeth-album(s). None are overrated.

And I think you are wrong comparing the albums. They are different.
MAYH are much more aggressive while SL is calmer, moodier... But
I must say that I do like MAYH more. It's a record you really have
to get into. When you have you're stuck - as usual :)

Serenity Painted Death have the best riff ever - the extremely
melodic one at 3:16, if I'm not mistaken. Love that whole opus :)
 
my arms your hearse seems to me to perfectly mesh emotional lyrics, with emotional guitar sounds. they havent replicated that since imo.

"runaway.."

"the rain was waving goodbye.."

"and i cried"

"the final spark that blew life into me..the demon of the fall."

"you have nothing left to gain...you have nothing left to lose"

"captured by the night..."

"recognize...my loneliness"

etc.

i could care less if mayh was playing with pots and pans, the sound is PERFECT for the emotional vibe of the album. i cant say that about SL.
 
Well if we're talking about albums where the bass guitar can't be heard, I think MAYH can take the cake. I think if we talk about albums where you don't WANT to hear the bass, Orchid and Morningrise take it.

asshole......jk.........I don't understand not liking the bass on Morningrise.
 
Moonlapse said:
I think if we talk about albums where you don't WANT to hear the bass, Orchid and Morningrise take it.
Umm.. no. Actually the bass is one of the driving forces behind Morningrise's appeal. That record demands the type of bass that you hear played. I think the MAYH album is the one where the bass is not as important, as the material is much more heavy so the bass would just be more of a backround pounding. But how can you honestly say the listener would not like Morningrise's bass? :)
 
That one sentence in my last post was out of jest if not anything else. I was trying to insert a throwback to the line of arguing that people here were using prior to my post.

My taste > your taste. Arguing subjective qualities of music, with nobody coming out on top because there was nothing solid to latch onto.

It was sarcastic more than anything. However, I do think way too much time was spent on the high frets of the bass on that album. It gives the feeling that the bassist believes he's another guitarist. I really welcomed the era of Mendez bass-playing.
 
I don't understand the bashing on Morningrise about bass. I like to have the bass so defined. Its hearable, and you don't really have to "look" through the sound to find the bass. Anyways, to each his own.

If the bassist thinks he's another guitarist, great, it doesn't bother me. It adds a lot to the songs. Bass doesn't have to be PURELY rythmic, it can stand out as well (all of Morningrise).
 
I think the bass playing on Orchid and Morningrise make them better albums, I mean your average death metal band (or band with heavy death metal influences) doesn't usually have that kind of bass in their music.
 
The bass is one of the reasons I prefer the old stuff.
There is no reason the bass can't play a melody while the guitars carry the rythm.
I could hardly hear Mendez on still Life.
He has a really cool part in The Drapery Falls and Harlequin Forest.
I think they should turn him up a bit.
 
Mendez is a great bassist, but he only is noticable on Face of Melinda on Still Life. I think he has some great basslines on BWP and Damnation though.