Still Life= overrated

[all_sins_undone]

The bass is one of the reasons I prefer the old stuff.
There is no reason the bass can't play a melody while the guitars carry the rythm.
I could hardly hear Mendez on still Life.
He has a really cool part in The Drapery Falls and Harlequin Forest.
I think they should turn him up a bit.

Agreed. Good shit.

 

[dishcloth]

I don't get that vibe at all. But I suppose that's more of a subjective thing than anything else. To me the vocals on MAYH... or actually most elements of MAYH have wayyy too much reverb. Case in point: Mike's little thing at the end of 'When' you know the whole 'when can I take you from this place...' thing. The only reason taht seems to cut through the mix is because the damn verb is everywhere. It's all you can hear! Actually I think for that part they must've mixed in more verb than actual dry signal

Yep, they do, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The vocals on Still Life are crunchier. There's a rawer upper midrange there and it really brings out that back-throat, gargling area of his voice. Helps the growls and all. Fantastic thing is that the clean vocals cut through perfectly during the heavier parts.

That's because there's actual midrange in the guitars now. All the guitar sounds they pulled prior to Still Life were quite harsh and dry. For Orchid and Morningrise that should go without saying. The guitar sounds are abysmal. For MAYH, they're just really raw and crunchy, which I find really odd considering it was a 5150 head they used. I've honestly never heard those things emit anything OTHER than midrange, until Opeth used em, haha!

I mean just compare the midrange graph of Twilight is my Robe to that of Moonlapse vertigo. The midrange for Orchid is all over the place, no doubt contributing to that harsh sound that makes your ears want to bleed. For SL there's a big peak around the 2.2k mark, but aside from that, it seems pretty smooth sailing. I mean it stands to reason, if you look at all the graphs, you see that Still Life has the most gradual curves, kind of coinciding with the fact that its the least harsh on the ears. It's smoother, not muddy.

Ah yes, bass.

Well if we're talking about albums where the bass guitar can't be heard, I think MAYH can take the cake. I think if we talk about albums where you don't WANT to hear the bass, Orchid and Morningrise take it.

But all things considered, is there anything worthwhile about hearing the bass guitar on Still Life? I don't really think it does that many things that are interesting. Face of Melinda probably has the biggest amount of non-standard bass, and for that track you can more or less hear it.

Point 1: Face Of Melinda has more reverb than any other Opeth song IMO.

Point 2: Orchid doesn't make my ears want to bleed. The sound may be more muddy than Still Life, but the depressive vibe the album gives off is much more memorable and emotional.

Point 3: Bass work on Orchid and Morningrise rules. What is wrong with playing higher frets anyway? It still sounds like bass to me. Makes it much more interesting and adds more to the music instead of just following the guitars. To be honest I don't see Mendez's bass to be contributing all that much to Still Life...

Point 4: Production of an album doesn't really matter all that much when it's being judged for how good it is. I mean, sometimes you got to listen to the music behind the production job, if you know what I mean. All the production relates to is how the song is being captured on tape, not the actual song. I mean if the greatest written album of all time were recorded on a tape deck, I would listen to that over a mediocre album recorded in a multi-million dollar studio. LOL as long as the recording quality was good enough to hear what was going on. All I'm saying is the song writing to me, is more important than the production job. Which is why Still Life loses.

 

[Ermz]

You seem to be trying to get back into that:

My taste > your taste argument that nimrods all over the internet indulge in regularly. If you re-read my post, you'll see it was generally confined to talking about TANGIBLE production elements.

I have no patience to go around in circles trying to covince someone that subjective aspects of a record are somehow inherently superior than another.

I understand what your prefference is, and that's fine. But in the last paragraph to start going into how a production job doesn't matter just proved to me that what you were talking about wasn't even slightly relevant to my post. My post was all about the production elements.

 

[Disgustipated]

Yeah, people here don't seem to understand the fact that a person's opinion may differ from their own. It's quite pathetic.

 

[Alcapoth]

I'll just simply state here that Still Life happens to be MY favourite Opeth album.


Then, it'll probably go as follows;

2. MAYH
3. Ghost Reveries
4. Blackwater Park
5. Morningrise
6. Orchid
7. Deliverance
8. Damnation

 

[xXBraveMurderDay]

I don't find it overrated.

I find My Arms, Your Hearse overrated.

 

[Ermz]

Hooray. I think the most overrated of all Opeth albums is easily Morningrise, though. In my opinion, Opeth have matured so much as songwriters, that it's almost insulting to keep clinging onto Morningrise as the peak of their career.

 

[Arnold Layne]

I agree with MR being over rated. Also agree with the depth in Still Life. I love the placement of the accoustic guitar on the first heavy riff of the moor. The accents are cool (also cool in April Ethereal and When). But Still Life is so much better, the songwriting is much better. There is still a bit of fat in MAYH that needs to be trimmed eg parts of Karma.

 

[dishcloth]

You seem to be trying to get back into that:

My taste > your taste argument that nimrods all over the internet indulge in regularly. If you re-read my post, you'll see it was generally confined to talking about TANGIBLE production elements.I have no patience to go around in circles trying to covince someone that subjective aspects of a record are somehow inherently superior than another.

That makes no sense what so ever. I never stated that your taste was wrong at all, infact I didn't even say a bad word about Still Life, which you obviously love. I was expressing some points, which were my opinions, part of my tastes. Am I not allowed to have a taste or something? Am I not allowed to see things differently?

I understand what your prefference is, and that's fine. But in the last paragraph to start going into how a production job doesn't matter just proved to me that what you were talking about wasn't even slightly relevant to my post. My post was all about the production elements.

Of course it's relevant, you were making claims from a production tangent, of how Still Life is superior to other albums. Here's an example:

To me the vocals on MAYH... or actually most elements of MAYH have wayyy too much reverb.

And here:

For Orchid and Morningrise that should go without saying. The guitar sounds are abysmal.

People before were saying how they liked the sounds of Orchid and Morningrise and you spent a whole post and even added images to prove your taste was better. Thats a My Taste > your taste argument if I've ever seen it. And do I care if you think your opinion is better than mine? No not at all, your allowed to have your own opinions and of course you will think they are better than mine, that's because you're human. I wasn't trying to convert you or anything, and no I don't get off on proving my opinion is better than anyone elses because I doubt they really care. All I said is what I thought, no attempt of convincing or nothing, it's rather pointless.

But in the last paragraph to start going into how a production job doesn't matter just proved to me that what you were talking about wasn't even slightly relevant to my post.

You made a post about production going into a lot of detail. I said I didn't think production was all that important. I think it's totally relevant, at least to the topic anyway.

Yeah, people here don't seem to understand the fact that a person's opinion may differ from their own. It's quite pathetic.

Of course I understand he has a different opinion. Don't go calling me pathetic or anything now.... Did I crack a hissy fit or something because I didn't agree with his opinions? No of course not. All I did was state what I believed, which is what everyone who uses this forum does. He can think what he likes, so can you, so can I. Leave it at that, I got better things to than convince anyone of anything and get in some stupid web debate, which I had no intention of starting... Let me say what I think, you can say what you think, otherwise what is the point of having a forum?

 

[Nuk3m]

People before were saying how they liked the sounds of Orchid and Morningrise and you spent a whole post and even added images to prove your taste was better. Thats a My Taste > your taste argument if I've ever seen it.

Well a spectrum analysis like that really isnt about someones taste its about the freq response, his point of putting it there was to show that it was recorded and mixed far better then the previous albums.

Being a PAID Audio Engineer i would have to agree, by my own ears and those images.

 

[Ermz]

That makes no sense what so ever. I never stated that your taste was wrong at all, infact I didn't even say a bad word about Still Life, which you obviously love. I was expressing some points, which were my opinions, part of my tastes. Am I not allowed to have a taste or something? Am I not allowed to see things differently?

Really?

All I'm saying is the song writing to me, is more important than the production job. Which is why Still Life loses.

Yes. You were expressing some points, which were your opinions, part of your tastes. You're completely entitled to your opinion, but there's absolutely no need to retort with opinions and taste when replying to a post that attempts to focus on the objectifiable.

Of course not 100% of my first post was entirely objective. I threw in opinions about the MAYH reverb, which I cited as my opinion at the time, thoughts about the guitar tone on the first two albums and of course the bass on Morningrise. More than anything those were just intended as sarcastic remarks, or sort of a 'break' from the monotony of the rest of the post. I personally don't find it all too interesting to write about objectifiable qualities of an album all day, so I like to spice things up with some 'color' ie. get people pissed off by denigrating elements of other albums

Of course it's relevant, you were making claims from a production tangent, of how Still Life is superior to other albums. Here's an example:

I wasn't trying to prove Still Life superior. I was merely defending its production quality as opposed to that of other Opeth albums, namely the 3 that came prior to it.

The comments about the other albums are strictly that. My comments about the other albums. There's really nothing to be argued. I have certain prefferences from a production standpoint, as I'm sure you do as well.

People before were saying how they liked the sounds of Orchid and Morningrise and you spent a whole post and even added images to prove your taste was better. Thats a My Taste > your taste argument if I've ever seen it.

The idea behind posting the spectrum analysis graphs was to show some objectifiable differences between the production of 3 Opeth albums. I was using in DEFENSE of Still Life. Those images prove absolutely nothing about superiority. Just certain elements.. like for instance MAYH having an excess of rumbling low-end bass. It's a valid point and undeniable since it's right there for you to see.

You made a post about production going into a lot of detail. I said I didn't think production was all that important. I think it's totally relevant, at least to the topic anyway.

Your entire post could quite easily have been summed up with 'I don't think the production is important' which is fine, in the context of this thread. However it has absolutely nothing to do with my post, since, production-dismissed, my post becomes void. I understand that this thread reffers to the musical elements in Still Life. But I wasn't addressing those because it's pointless. The premise of this entire thread is pointless. I attempted to latch onto the only avenue of discussion that had any sort of non-subjective grounding.

 

[dishcloth]

Well a spectrum analysis like that really isnt about someones taste its about the freq response, his point of putting it there was to show that it was recorded and mixed far better then the previous albums.

Being a PAID Audio Engineer i would have to agree, by my own ears and those images.

Of course Still Life is a better produced album, I'm not arguing about that at all. It just seemed Moonie was using production quality as a means of judging the album, hence my point saying that I think production isn't everything when judging an album. Mind you, it might sound better, tighter or whatever, but Still Life doesn't have the depressive sound that I love so much in Orchid and Morningrise, even MAYH to an extent. What is a good production job? I think that is really up to the listener's personal prefrence, same goes with favourite album, favourite song, whatever.

 

[Liquid Diamonds]

Hooray. I think the most overrated of all Opeth albums is easily Morningrise, though. In my opinion, Opeth have matured so much as songwriters, that it's almost insulting to keep clinging onto Morningrise as the peak of their career.

Agreed. 100% agreed!

 

[Braighs]

Hooray. I think the most overrated of all Opeth albums is easily Morningrise, though. In my opinion, Opeth have matured so much as songwriters, that it's almost insulting to keep clinging onto Morningrise as the peak of their career.

I didn't say Morningrise was their best. I said it was my favorite.
I don't speak in terms of tangible sound quality. I don't even speak in terms of technical or theoretical musical ability. I speak in terms of how the music moves me. As an individual, it couldn't possibly move anyone the same way it moves me. I love every album released by Opeth. They are all in my top 40 at least.

 

[Pain While Urinating]

Has anyone actually got any time to enjoy the music at all?
Thanks to Moonlapse for making it a little more clearer why I like Still Life the most out of Opeth's releases, that was freakin' interesting.

 

[steel102]

moonlapse why dont you just ban him instead of justifying yourself

edit: i just noticed you both live in the same city. the only to settle this is with a...fistfight!

 

[Satyros]

still life is the best album

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

moonlapse why dont you just ban him instead of justifying yourself

edit: i just noticed you both live in the same city. the only to settle this is with a...fistfight!

10 bucks on moonlapse...that kid slays

 

[Ermz]

Woah, where'd you dig up that old pic

 

[steel102]

on your silverchair site i think.