Stupid musical cliches

[LuminousAether]

1. Selling albums makes you a good band.

This is obviously the opposite of the truth, as most people don't know what good music actually consists of and simply follow the herd.

1. a) Not selling albums makes you a bad band.

This is also the opposite of the truth as not selling albums simply means you don't have the financial backing and marketing of a band that sells good.

2. Talent is the most important thing in music.

Again, this is false... many bands have made excellent music without having any real talent.

3. Songwriting is the most important thing in music.

Songwriting is important, no doubt about it, but some rare bands have made excellent music without a handle on songwriting. Much more rare than a fairly talentless band making good music, this one is actually valid at times.

4. Playing fast = talent.

This is actually the inverse of reality, slower more emotional music is far more talented than fast, wanking music.

 

[Manbient]

you do not make the sense.

Personally i like to listen to good music, and good music comes from talented people. You can decided which area their talents lie, wheather it be songwriting, technical skill, or whatever, but you do NOT make good music if you suck at things that have to do with music. (btw, when you say songwriting, do you mean just lyrics? i mean the actual composing of a song)

 

[LuminousAether]

Yes, songwriting is composing a song, not the lyrics. And by talent, I mean technical skill at instrument playing, not talent at songwriting, which is why I seperated them.

 

[Manbient]

so neither talent nor songwriting makes good music.... hmm.....

 

[LuminousAether]

Yes, you are right on the money. Neither talent nor songwriting makes good music. Both are somewhat important, with songwriting being far more important, but you can be an excellent songwriter with a load of instrumental talent, and still wind up with an album that is tedious, boring, and dull. For an example, the My Dying Bride album Like Gods of the Sun fits perfectly into this idea. Look at the albums surrounding it, The Angel and the Dark River and 34.788% Complete... they are absolutely astonishing albums. But Like Gods of the Sun is a very tepid, mediocre release. The songwriting is still there, they are quite talented musicians... but there's nothing rewarding or even interesting about the music they released on that album... There's something missing.

 

[Belial]

I agree with the first one, but the others are misguided and erroneous.

Art, in any form, takes talent. Some people have a natural inclination towards an artform, some have to work at it. Nobody can just pick up a guitar, pen, or paintbrush and create a beautiful work of art right out of the barn. Your point about songwriting is pretty moot, being that it lies in the same realm of musical talent. Someone could not be very talented at songwriting, but be good at playing his instrument, or vice versa.

Playing fast does require a certain talent. Not everyone can do it. You confuse talent for what you find enjoyable in a song. Just because you prefer slower playing doesn't mean it necessarily requires more talent.

 

[IanDork107]

That was a stupid list.


*sits and listens to slow, technically limited drone doom and headbangs*

 

[LuminousAether]

Actually, the slower more emotive music being more talented is not something I have found out myself, it is something I have been told from members of doom metal bands. Paul from November's Doom said that they have a hard time finding people who can play their music, because everyone just tries to play as fast as possible. Almost anyone can play a very fast neoclassical guitar solo. Even Slipknot's guitar player could play all of Kirk Hammet's guitar parts at the age of 12. Playing these fast solos... that doesn't take talent.

"Art, in any form, takes talent. Some people have a natural inclination towards an artform, some have to work at it. Nobody can just pick up a guitar, pen, or paintbrush and create a beautiful work of art right out of the barn. Your point about songwriting is pretty moot, being that it lies in the same realm of musical talent. Someone could not be very talented at songwriting, but be good at playing his instrument, or vice versa."

This is not true. You do NOT need any talent whatsoever to paint and if you think you need any talent at all to play music, you've never heard The Sex Pistols before.

 

[LuminousAether]

Number four on my list is so ingrained into the brains of the sheeplike, robotic metalhead community that it is almost disgusting. The next time some moron says "wow, that is fast! he is a very skilled guitar player" I am going to flip out.

 

[IanDork107]

playing fast doesn't necessarily mean talent, but playing slow doesn't mean talent either.

the worst musical cliche is when people try and put all these stupid rules and restrictions on whats good and what isn't. good things come in all forms, and if you don't think so, you're closed minded.

 

[Manbient]

you obviously have never tried to play some of that stuff.

 

[Belial]

This is not true. You do NOT need any talent whatsoever to paint and if you think you need any talent at all to play music, you've never heard The Sex Pistols before.

It is quite true. Any artform: painting, writing, music playing, takes talent. As a writer I can attest to that. My brother's girlfriend, who is quite a skilled painter, frankly, would laugh in your face if you said painting takes no talent to her.

A more concrete example would be my personal experience with the guitar. Last summer I wanted to play guitar, so I bought a good one and practiced my arse off. A year later and I can still just barely form more than a few chords. The guitar is too clunky, and my fingers are too clumsy, and my mind just can't keep up with the attempt to play it. In other words: I have no talent at guitar.

Writing, on the other hand, I have talent with. The flow of words comes naturally to me. Some of my work has been praised by published authors, one of which even offered to grant me the benefit of her experience to help me get published. Even so, it took me over 3 years of constant practice to produce work that wasn't laughably bad.

From what you say, I assume you're mostly going by what other people tell you about art. I suggest you try it yourself and tell me it takes no talent.

 

[Belial]

you obviously have never tried to play some of that stuff.

I'd like to see him try.

 

[IanDork107]

Talent being unimportant is just an excuse of someone who has none but still wants to think of him/herself as relevant.

 

[LuminousAether]

I play piano and I can paint reasonably well. I can also write to a fair extent, but my real forte is with computers... but this isn't at all what I was talking about. To make a valid statement using a canvas and paint, you do not need talent whatsoever. Just look at Jackson Pollack.

So far, I have given concrete examples and everyone else has given conjecture. I win by default.

 

[Manbient]

you have NOT given ANY concrete evidence, get your head out of your ass. If art took no talent, EVERYONE who tried any kind of art would succeed. Because they wouldn't need any kind of natural ability.

I find it incredibly ballsy to call things that people who work hard and have inclinations towards requires no talent and is just something everyone can do. You go fucking paint something and play a Dream Theater solo and i'll tell you if you do either well, and we'll get other people to also judge. Ya fukkin cock

 

[IanDork107]

Jackson Pollack is a horrible example. He built up a reputation by painting a more standard way, and he had a lot of talent in painting. Then, when he was well known enough, he duped people by doing his bullshit splatter painting. The only reason that crap is recognized as art is because he built himself up as an artist and since it was an "artist" doing random crap paintings, everyone said that it was art. His musical equivalent is Merzbow. They make abrasive annoying formless noise and people actually buy it because they think they're deep to be able to get some kind of meaning out of worthless shit.

 

[Manbient]

she won'T STOP laughing

 

[Blood and Fat]

crap, I swear I could feel how my neurons went dying the moment I started reading this thread...

 

[Firedwarf]

Wow.

I have something to say about innate ability, though. My bass teacher has been telling me since day 1 that the idea of "innate talent" is bullshit. He is his own proof. He tells me that he could not play worth shit for two years when he started playing bass and guitar, but he practiced his fucking ass off and now he's really, really, really, really, really fucking good.