The Abortion (that is this) Thread

[Dak]

or rather, by identifying it you're still participating in it (seeing as your observation is loaded with ideological baggage).

In short, both men and women should be able to act appropriately without, for the most part, blaming their biology.

Well that would be the ideal, and many men and women do act more or less "appropriately" despite biology......but this seems a bit of a turnaround for you in some aspects (should be able to act appropriately regardless of X), unless either at this juncture or others you are/were merely devils advocate.

Making the assumption that most women appeal to biology as an excuse for their behavior doesn't make any critical observation. It only backs them further into a corner with only two options: embrace your biology or disown it. The decision itself, despite being a false choice, puts an enormous amount of pressure on women.

You're arguing that noticing is a problem. I don't really no how exactly to respond to that but it's not on any positive spectrum. Regardless, I don't see how noticing backs anyone into a corner of false choice. If enormous pressure on women is of concern, the only thing providing such enormous pressure right now is the "have it all" myth pushed by some acolytes of modern feminism, possibly followed closely by the "everything is oppressing you" myth.

 

[Einherjar86]

Noticing inevitably becomes part of the problem, but it isn't something we can help. What we can help is how we respond to the problem. I would argue that men have made biological accusations toward women in the past, and that this behavior has inculcated an environment of biological determinism. You have repeatedly said that feminists want to deny biology, but this is an example of how a workplace and social environment dominated largely by men can give rise to warped impressions of biological influence. At this point absolutely any excuse relating to biology (especially in a woman) is going to raise political red flags.

My primary contention still simply lies in the overwhelming generality of your accusation. I may commute to a campus every day, but my wife works for a large private company, none of my family is in academia, and most of my friends are not. I never hear this kind of excuse come from someone who is only an acquaintance: "Oh, I'm sorry I'm so irritable, I'm on my period." This just does not happen as much as you insinuate.

 

[Dak]

My primary contention still simply lies in the overwhelming generality of your accusation. I may commute to a campus every day, but my wife works for a large private company, none of my family is in academia, and most of my friends are not. I never hear this kind of excuse come from someone who is only an acquaintance: "Oh, I'm sorry I'm so irritable, I'm on my period." This just does not happen as much as you insinuate.

So your list of areas where this doesn't occur is your upper middle class family/friends, and the professional atmosphere of a large company and a private university (especially faculty). I wouldn't expect it to occur in those areas.

Working in retail/customer service, being around students, being in the military, it has been pretty common. Of course, those people all occupy the wider and lower "rungs" of society.

 

[Einherjar86]

How many active women are in the military? I can't say that's an accurate polling for a majority by any means.

I've been around students at public, private, and community college schools. I have no explanation for why our experiences differ, but I'll continue to use it as a challenge to your claim.

 

[Dak]

How many active women are in the military? I can't say that's an accurate polling for a majority by any means.

It's not a large number but they come from all over the country - but like most enlisted personnel they mostly come from lower classes.

I've been around students at public, private, and community college schools. I have no explanation for why our experiences differ, but I'll continue to use it as a challenge to your claim.

I haven't been to a private school, and I wasn't around students much at the community college (I never lingered around campus/did any extra curricular stuff etc) but I did hear it once there. Loud backrow girl before class. Probably some other occasions I'm forgetting but I remember the one. Happened much more in work settings and on/off duty while in the military - from both military and just "friends of friends" out in town.

 

[Einherjar86]

Whatever, I'm sorry I started this discussion. I believe that you've heard it (or think you have), but I also think the nature of your evidence suggests that your original post blows it way out of proportion. Suggesting these moments are indicative of a widespread feminine entitlement to blamelessness is an imaginative extrapolation of these few incidents that have clearly stuck in your head.

 

[Mort Divine]

Been working retail since I was 18 and not once have I heard it as an excuse from coworkers or customers. *shrug*

It is definitely being exaggerated.

 

[damnromulans]

Birth control is the man's job if he wants a say in whether to have a babby. That means wrapping it up, pulling it out, or using the male BC shot when it is approved by the FDA for use in no less than thirty years at the rate we are going. If you can't handle the possibility that your partner might fall pregnant and want to keep it, you really shouldn't be having sex to begin with. ::

The pill is not nice to be on. It's not like you just become infertile and nothing else happens. Like any other powerful medication, it has lots of side effects.

 

[Dak]

The pill is not nice to be on. It's not like you just become infertile and nothing else happens. Like any other powerful medication, it has lots of side effects.

Yeah, this is the main reason we've gone with condoms over BC.

Been working retail since I was 18 and not once have I heard it as an excuse from coworkers or customers. *shrug*

But they've heard it from you. hurdurdur

 

[damnromulans]

It works well with little user error. Mainly because you would rather do ANYTHING than have sexual intercourse with your male partner.

Been working retail since I was 18 and not once have I heard it as an excuse from coworkers or customers. *shrug*

It is definitely being exaggerated.

It really isn't for everyone. Some months I spend my entire luteal phase of my cycle feeling anxious and depressed. I've had a couple months where I've even had fleeting moments of suicidal ideation, and my baseline mood is "always cheerful."

There is just an existing expectation that you shoulder it silently, because with the climate the way it is, you'd be faced with people asking you with a straight face why you should be allowed to work/vote/not be committed to a psych ward.

Really stupid IMO that everyone pretends it doesn't happen/exist.

 

[Dak]

It works well with little user error. Mainly because you would rather do ANYTHING than have sexual intercourse with your male partner.

Yeah I've heard similar complaints before, and also heard about wild swings of libido where say, you'd have a week of insatiable and constant hornyness followed by weeks of zero libido.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

The Center of Medical Progress released video number 10 today.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ed-parenthood-leader-tells-undercover-camera/

 

[Matt]

Just face reality; Planned Parenthood is going nowhere, and your shitty belief system is an ever-shrinking minority that will one day be eradicated. The GOP stands no chance in 2016 and would lose the house and senate too if they hadn't gerrymandered the fuck out of everything.

 

[Matt]

I've always wondered why there isn't a male birth control pill. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to accomplish

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

:yawn:

 

[Dak]

Just face reality; Planned Parenthood is going nowhere, and your shitty belief system is an ever-shrinking minority that will one day be eradicated. The GOP stands no chance in 2016 and would lose the house and senate too if they hadn't gerrymandered the fuck out of everything.

More like protected the non urbanites. I wouldn't care if all city ants had an outsized say if their absurd policy wishes were restricted to their concrete hives. And don't get all mad as if gerrymandering is an exclusively GOP thing.

 

[Einherjar86]

http://aeon.co/magazine/society/why-is-there-still-no-pill-for-men/

There is a multitude of reasons for the pharmaceutical industry’s reticence when it comes to male contraception. The efficacy and acceptability of female contraceptives sets a high competitive bar. The ethical problem of justifying potential side effects without any direct health benefits for men is another deterrent. And recent controversies related to the health insurance coverage of female contraceptives in the US underscore the even greater uncertainty of who would pay for male contraceptives if they were brought to market.

 

[Nephilim96]

I've always wondered why there isn't a male birth control pill. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to accomplish

Why would we need one? It would only be needed if you're having lots of unprotected sex with random women, and you really shouldn't be doing that anyways.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Birth control for women can have really major side effects that it wouldn't even make sense to be on in hindsight. Also, I've known women who got pregnant while on BC, so nothing is 100% proof. The morning after pill (Plan B) isn't something that should be taken regularly. It is intended to be used only in the case of "emergencies"- when unprotected sex was had or condom error, etc.

I do know there are other forms of BC for women, but I'm not very familiar with them. If there's a cheap one with hardly any side effects, please enlighten me. A condom seems like the easiest option. It's cheap, barely any side effects, and you're protecting against pregnancy and STDs. What more is there to ask for?

Also, in terms of whether or not men should be held accountable for impregnating a woman but not wanting the child, obviously the ideal is for both parties to come to a decision together. Though I do agree consent to sex and consent to pregnancy are two different things, because there is this "blurred line" (the child growing inside a woman's body and not a man's) those not looking for any babies should be aware of the risks and take all necessary precautions.

I don't think fair is always equal. Men and women aren't "exactly alike" in this specific case, so it's illogical to treat the situation as a matter of equality. It's a fair decision because the fact of the matter is is that it's not your body, and therefore you can't dictate what ought to be done.

It would be too complicated for the government to mandate laws in which men can waive off responsibilities. As adults the implication is that people shouldn't be passive in regards to sex and yes it sucks that one mistake can cost you, but this is with anything in life. If you're unsure if your partner is on the same page as you then your best bet is to find another partner who is.

This seems like just basic relationship skills in general.

Edit: Neither parent should be able to waive responsibility unless the other consents to it. I mean… we talk a lot about women "trapping men" but I've read/heard of stories where one guy has many kids for many different women. I mean… there comes a time where people should be held accountable for their actions, having a child is one of them. Tough shit. It's not the child's fault, and if you're the parent you should be the parent.

 

[SentinelSlain]

There are things that are like condoms that women put into themselves. Femedom is one term for them.