The Abortion (that is this) Thread

[0Marty]

"He knew the risks" - Why can this not be "A woman knew the risks" -- I mean christ, can we address this just once?

This. They both know the risks and they both have options how to minimize that risks - but somehow, when shit happens, man is the one responsible, and even if he has responsibility, only woman can decide what she wants to do with her body so his opinion doesn't matter.

 

[arg]

you're all focused on the mistake. THAT'S DONE. the question is what do we do now?

abort? one time payment for the procedure. DONE.

give birth? tens of thousands of dollars over many years. woman decides to do that instead of aborting? her choice, her financial responsibility.

rms, they will keep parroting the same shit because there is no logical counter argument, might as well agree to disagree

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You guys should realize that condoms have something like a 1% failure rate. If the man is the only one using contraceptives, and is using only that one method of contraception, there is a reasonable chance that his partner will get pregnant eventually.

Let me get this straight... Some of you actually believe that if I get pregnant, I have to give birth to it, because of a contraceptive failure? Fite me IRL fagit. I'll show you some PMS.

I think TNB is the only one here that's anti-abortion.

 

[0Marty]

you're all focused on the mistake. THAT'S DONE. the question is what do we do now?

abort? one time payment for the procedure. DONE.

give birth? tens of thousands of dollars over many years. woman decides to do that instead of aborting? her choice, her financial responsibility.

rms, they will keep parroting the same shit because there is no logical counter argument, might as well agree to disagree

I don't fully agree with this, however, if the woman chooses to have a kid even if she knows the father doesn't want it, he won't give her any money and money is problem for her, she's stupid. If she knows all this and has a chance to abort, but her decision is to keep the kid, she's just fucking up the child's life. In this case, I'd say she's as bad as the guy, maybe even worse.

 

[Dak]

You guys should realize that condoms have something like a 1% failure rate.

Plan B bro. I also question the 1% number being a true representation. I've had a "Barely There" condom break, ditched the rest of them, and otherwise have used thousands of more standard "thin" condoms by now without a problem.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Definitely worth realizing that single-motherhood is one of the best predictors of criminal behavior out there. In a first-world country where access to abortion is easy and cheap, the argument made by people in this thread would seem to be that single mothers carry to term because they enjoy having a bad life. Barring religious issues, or the father leaving late into the pregnancy, what else is preventing them, since people in this thread would have us believe women never benefit from non-mutually-desired pregnancy?

 

[Mort Divine]

Plan B is a great option, but not 100% foolproof either. It loses its effectiveness in the 165-175 weight range.

 

[Mort Divine]

And is access that easy? Plenty of states are doing their damnedest to ensure that it is incredibly difficult to get one.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Plan B bro. I also question the 1% number being a true representation. I've had a "Barely There" condom break, ditched the rest of them, and otherwise have used thousands of more standard "thin" condoms by now without a problem.

The point is that people are assuming the onus to use contraception lies on the man, not acknowledging that condom failures do happen (more frequently than the pill) and not acknowledging that women should have an equal responsibility in using contraception.

The numbers I'm finding Googling actually seem higher than I thought, but it's worth noting the distinction between typical and ideal usage.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

You guys should realize that condoms have something like a 1% failure rate. If the man is the only one using contraceptives, and is using only that one method of contraception, there is a reasonable chance that his partner will get pregnant eventually.



I think TNB is the only one here that's anti-abortion.

Thank you for your prompt response. Also, your mug shot was the creepiest shit I've seen all week. Props.

I guess I don't really understand what the current argument is, too many different opinions and pages.But I too would like to engage in heated linguistic battle. Could ya bullet point me duder?

 

[rms]

Plan B bro. I also question the 1% number being a true representation. I've had a "Barely There" condom break, ditched the rest of them, and otherwise have used thousands of more standard "thin" condoms by now without a problem.

2% condoms, 4% pulling out "effectively"; according to that study.

 

[rms]

And is access that easy? Plenty of states are doing their damnedest to ensure that it is incredibly difficult to get one.

Well if the argument is going into a red state/anti-Obamacare political discussion it's entirely different.

Last I checked, Plan B was either free or dirt cheap because of Obamacare. Kids at this campus almost take that more than adderral.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

One more double-standard: many people have suggested that men undergo a surgical procedure that permanently sterilizes them, so that women do not have to undergo a non-surgical procedure that can be repeated with minimal(?) harm, even though women are just as capable of being sterilized.

Thank you for your prompt response. Also, your mug shot was the creepiest shit I've seen all week. Props.

I guess I don't really understand what the current argument is, too many different opinions and pages.But I too would like to engage in heated linguistic battle. Could ya bullet point me duder?

Thanks, I tried my best.

Main question of the thread: should men be responsible for child support if they wanted the mother to have an abortion?

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I think men should have the right to sign off on not being the father. Of course, he also loses any rights to ever know the child. Great situation happened with a friend of mine where the girl's parents adopted his kid, and she became like a half sister to her baby. Weird situation but worked out really well for him. I think an adoptive father roster would be a stellar idea. Older dudes who want kids without a relationship, or something like that. And women who want kids when the bio father doesn't would have that option instead of raging for child support.

Unfortunately this is not the way of the world. Sorry, fellas.

 

[Dak]

I'll also continue to contend that affirming this view of women (i.e. that the majority often use their periods as an excuse) is a harmful and alienating perspective, regardless of whether or not it's true.

Missed your response earlier. If it's true, you're saying they are harming and alienating themselves? Or are you saying men should just pretend it doesn't happen and therefore mansplain to women what's really going on with their bodies? Etc. Your contention is absurd on any level you want to look at it from - "if" "it's" true.

This thread has turned into a bunch of whiny men who can't handle being responsible for their own decisions.

rms already shot this down, but I'll add an . Especially since I am "married w/children", use condoms without complaint, etc.

Edit: @Condom failure: What are the "failures"? Failure to use properly? Breaking? Leaking? Coming off? I only consider breaking/a hole a legitimate failure. The rest can pretty much be lumped under user error.

 

[rms]

I don't even think any of us said majority, we just have heard it several times.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Edit: @Condom failure: What are the "failures"? Failure to use properly? Breaking? Leaking? Coming off? I only consider breaking/a hole a legitimate failure. The rest can pretty much be lumped under user error.

Yeah, the studies show that it's usually user error, but it's still worth considering. After all, the pull-out method is highly effective when it works too. Since there aren't many alternatives for men other than sterilization, and since a lot of these dudes going around becoming babby daddies probably aren't the brightest bunch to begin with, it's still relevant when some itt act like it's all just a bunch of horndogs going at it bare.

 

[Summerian]

1. You can't kill people, illegal.
2. You can abort, legal.
= Fetus ain't people. => You can eat fetus without being a cannibal.

 

[SentinelSlain]

Let me get this straight... Some of you actually believe that if I get pregnant, I have to give birth to it, because of a contraceptive failure? Fite me IRL fagit. I'll show you some PMS.

I think abortion is right for practical reasons but I think there probably some awkward complex moral argument against it that is truthful on some level.

 

[Einherjar86]

Missed your response earlier. If it's true, you're saying they are harming and alienating themselves? Or are you saying men should just pretend it doesn't happen and therefore mansplain to women what's really going on with their bodies? Etc. Your contention is absurd on any level you want to look at it from - "if" "it's" true.

I'm saying that you're perpetuating a problem, not solving it or identifying it - or rather, by identifying it you're still participating in it (seeing as your observation is loaded with ideological baggage).

There's a politics to your accusation, and that's the case whether or not you like it or intend it. The point should be that biology, while a determining factor, need not determine to such a degree that it becomes an exclusionary institution that bars women from behaving rationally. In short, both men and women should be able to act appropriately without, for the most part, blaming their biology.

Making the assumption that most women appeal to biology as an excuse for their behavior doesn't make any critical observation. It only backs them further into a corner with only two options: embrace your biology or disown it. The decision itself, despite being a false choice, puts an enormous amount of pressure on women.