The "Definition of Metal" Project

[mutantllama]

Thanks V

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Probably not, we should focus more here tbh

Yes - we need results, people.

Does anyone actually have something to add/change to any of the definitions in the OP? I'm certain they could be made more accurate, but I haven't gotten any input besides people pointing out bands that don't fit the current definition(s).

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I very much agree with the four proponents you put together for metal. Sure there are exceptions, but it is a great starting point. I can't think of anything really specific to add. Would you like to run through my definitions publicly to edit them or something?

 

[Cythraul]

So what happens when something doesn't fit into accepted 'symbolic conventions'?

Then I would suspect it is uninterpretable according to the given symbol system, much like Turkish is uninterpretable relative to English.* We could assimilate it to our symbol system or simply come to understand it relative to its "home" system. Assuming that music can and does represent, it's somewhat difficult to say how it would come to do so. After all, we do not in any way stipulate by mere convention alone what represents what (we don't even do it with art in general, nor with ordinary language). There is probably something more primitive underlying such symbolic conventions (in which case I should instead say "conventions"). In visual arts, much representation is accompanied by some kind of resemblance between sign and signified which would seem to make it rather easy to say how certain "conventions" cropped up. The problem I think many people have with the notion of representation in music is that (1) musical sounds typically do not resemble what they purportedly represent in any way and (2) if music does represent, it wouldn't seem to be very determinate or at least not easily determinable. I honestly don't think these are huge problems.

*I'm careful not to take these kinds of analogies too seriously. I would not maintain that music really represents anything like genuine propositions.

 

[skeptik]

Cythraul, I would like to ask your thoughts on absolute music and the idea of absolute music as a representational art. You can address this now, or you can wait until I ask you again after I've read this book by Peter Kivy which deals much with absolute music. It would probably be better for my sake if you would wait, because I'm still working through the issues here, but in the meantime I might suggest Kivy's Philosophies Of Arts for your reading, as so far it seems to me that he's trying to take the next logical step from Danto. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I'm left with at the early stages of the book.

 

[Cythraul]

Cythraul, I would like to ask your thoughts on absolute music and the idea of absolute music as a representational art. You can address this now, or you can wait until I ask you again after I've read this book by Peter Kivy which deals much with absolute music. It would probably be better for my sake if you would wait, because I'm still working through the issues here, but in the meantime I might suggest Kivy's Philosophies Of Arts for your reading, as so far it seems to me that he's trying to take the next logical step from Danto. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I'm left with at the early stages of the book.

I don't think absolute music exists. Non-programmatic and non-lyrical music still has expressive properties. Expressive properties do convey meaningful content as far as I'm concerned. At any rate, I do not think metal falls under the category of music traditionally considered absolute music. That makes the problem of meaning in metal music even less problematic in my mind.

Do get back to me after you read that Kivy book.

 

[Einherjar86]

Maybe we can define metal in metaphorical terms. So, judging from the four conditions:

(1) the use of one or more highly distorted electric guitars
(2) a reliance on emphatic rhythms and drum beats to achieve a "heavy" sound
(3) a dramatic or aggressive vocal style which emphasizes the vocalist's tone of voice over the lyrical content
(4) a focus on instrumental power which reduces the role of the vocalist's persona relative to many forms of rock music

We could say, overall:

"What Ragnarok will sound like."

 

[skeptik]

I don't think absolute music exists.

That's a bit of a radical claim to make, don't you think? Namely since the status of absolute music as a fine art has been a seriously debated topic for quite a while. I'm guessing that you mean something a bit different regarding 'absolute' music then, something other than music simply devoid of interpretation and purely musical.

 

[Cythraul]

That's a bit of a radical claim to make, don't you think? Namely since the status of absolute music as a fine art has been a seriously debated topic for quite a while. I'm guessing that you mean something a bit different regarding 'absolute' music then, something other than music simply devoid of interpretation and purely musical.

As I understand it absolute music is music devoid of any extra-musical representation or content. I don't think absolute music in that sense exists. Actually, maybe I can acknowledge some extreme cases in which case I should probably back away from my claim a bit. I think absolute music is mostly an idealization. It doesn't matter if people refer to something as absolute music because I don't think the term's meaning has many instances in reality. I just think they're mostly incorrect.

 

[Zephyrus]

Please elaborate on this absolute music theory.

 

[Einherjar86]

They mean music of which the purpose is purely music, to put it plainly. It has no political or societal agenda in mind, and the composer is not trying to prove anything by its composition. The composition is essentially based purely on musical aesthetics and nothing else. That's a very rough definition, but I think it's correct.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I think that would only exist in theory, since all music must be created by a human using various outlets (instruments, voice, machines, etc.) and all humans naturally instill intention into things merely by doing them in the first place.

 

[skeptik]

I'm pretty sure, at least the way that it's spoken of in philosophy, that "absolute music" pretty much just refers to music that stands on its own in that there are no accompanying words, no title, no story that would shed light on the "motivations" behind the music. Any emotion or expression that is evoked in the music is a purely musical phenomenon. The main idea behind it is that it's music that is not about anything. I think that that would effectively relegate most 'emotions' or whathaveyou that may be expressed in the music to be incidental, an indirect influence not necessarily an intended part of the work. This definition places a great deal of classical music within the realm of absolute music. But like I said earlier, I intend to finish Kivy's book before I touch on this subject again.

 

[Zephyrus]

Heh. Kind of reminds me of the Pythagorean concept of the "song of the spheres".

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Interesting...

 

[Zephyrus]

tr00 mathcore.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I very much agree with the four proponents you put together for metal. Sure there are exceptions, but it is a great starting point. I can't think of anything really specific to add. Would you like to run through my definitions publicly to edit them or something?

Yeah, that would be cool. I don't have time tonight, but maybe at some point this weekend I'll start blowing them to pieces for you.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

RateYourMusic has implemented a genre definition wiki sorta thing recently, so I took it upon myself to write a few. Here's my overlook of black metal. It's not TERRIBLY specific and probably leaves out a bit, but seems generally pleasing.

Black metal is a subgenre of metal typified by its usually raw or under-produced sound and Satanic/rebellious aesthetic, as well as simplistic guitar phrases and under-accentuated rhythmic dimensions which allow more power for the atmospheric, detached and wandering riffs. Vocals are often higher pitched than death metal (or, "screams" rather than death metal's "grunts", speaking in slang terms) and can sound detached or unnervingly direct.

The genre began in the early/mid-80s as an offshoot of the popular heavy metal style emerging in Britain during this time, with bands from this area utilizing powerful occult imagery and a rawer, stripped-down sound than was usual for typical bands of the times, but other factions of influential bands occurred sporadically in other countries of Europe, including Switzerland, where Hellhammer were concocting their own sinister combination of (what would come to be known as) black/doom/death/thrash metal, possibly one of the world's first "extreme metal" bands (a term for metal that is not overtly/intentionally melodic in a traditional sense). Over time, the influences culminated in Norway and the other Scandinavian countries where "black metal" would come into its own and develop a following greater than when it was in its embryonic stages. It was in Norway and Sweden, with bands the likes of Mayhem, Bathory and Burzum, where black metal originated its "northern", cold, isolated sounds which became a staple sound of the "second wave" which extended until around the mid-90s.

Modern black metal has diverged quite a bit from its original path. Some see this as evolution and others as regression or even a falling-out from black metal totally. The genre is very much a worldwide phenomenon currently, with prominent acts located in Germany, France, Poland, Russia and even the United States (much to the apparent dismay of many fans of the "original" black metal which was decidedly European). Sub-styles of black metal have very recently been designed around expanding the aesthetic of the genre into industrial, psychedelic, ambient or folk sectors of music.

Here are a few more. They are "technical death metal" and "brutal death metal" respectively.

Technical death metal is a style of death metal with particular focus on challenging, demanding songwriting and instrumental skill. Bands may utilize complex guitar riffs and solos, change time signatures liberally or otherwise defy the rules of "traditional" death metal. The bands remain firmly rooted in death metal due to their unbending devotion to rhythmic heaviness and conceptual darkness, while promoting the idea of "harmony in chaos" even further with their schizophrenic compositions.

An overarching style of death metal with a few separate sub-styles within it. Overall, though, the music can be defined wholly as death metal with the extremity factor turned up in multiple ways. Triggered blastbeats, grind(core) influences and chunky, fast riffing characterize a good number of bands playing brutal death metal, but there are some bands, as early as Suffocation and as purely as Devourment who emphasize "slam" riffs which are often featured in breakdowns. This type of riff is often noted as being almost purely rhythmic, syncopated with the drumming or general pattern of the song and muted for maximum heaviness. Bands playing brutal death metal are often known to write shorter songs, emphasizing how much damage can be done in a brief period of time, though some also write longer, complex songs with a multitude of different, often slow, breakdowns and compositional techniques.

The three main styles seem to be a technical death style with slam-sounding breakdowns and grinding riffs as the aforementioned Suffocation did on their earliest material, a more purely rhythmic style such as the also previously mentioned Devourment or a complex, chaotic and constantly shifting yet unwaveringly fast and oppressive style like Deeds of Flesh. Most bands play in one of these styles or combine two or even all three with their own variegated influences to produce their own sound.

Interestingly, a few areas of the world have cultured bands who play brutal death metal who sound mainly similar. Examples would be the Colombian scene, featuring bands with heavy grooves and sometimes even epic riffs and harmonies, but who ultimately have weak or ineffectual vocal sounds, or the ever-popular Texas sound characterized by supremely guttural vocals and simplistic slam riffs often belying the true, complex nature of the sounds.

 

[Valerie]

AIC are grunge rock with acoustic and blues influences, but they don't fit into any of metal's subgenres so that's that.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=753 lolowned


Anyway, when I got to the part of the original post about the term "Heavy Metal" I disagreed. Heavy Metal is a specific style of metal, not a term for the whole entire genre.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

And do Alice In Chains sound like Iron Maiden, Venom, Mercyful Fate, Liege Lord etc. to you? No.

Metal-Archives is pretty stupid sometimes tbh anyway.