The Economics Thread

[Dak]

I had some cards at one time, and closed them all a while back (although I am still paying one off). Credit cards were the worst decision I ever made. The only loan I currently have out is for my truck.

 

[Dak]

Good News: ONLY 565,000 NEW jobless claims

Almost time to break out the lawn mower, these green shoots are out of control.

 

[Einherjar86]

I have ONE credit card linked to my bank so I stay out of trouble.

Same here, and it's enough of a bitch to pay that off.

I had a good conversation with my parents this morning. They're small business-owners, and we had a talk about Obama's new health care plan. Basically, it's going to tax businesses that make over $200,000 and use that money to pay for the health care of everyone. Now, my parents already provide health care for their employees, but if they choose not to accept this government-regulated system, they are charged extra and penalized. I can't say how much I disagree with this plan. Making small companies do this is going to cause more damage than harm; sure, the employees will have health care, but they won't have any fucking jobs when everyone goes out of business.

 

[The Ozzman]

inb4 people say the rich should be taxed instead.

 

[Dak]

WSJ: Real Unemployment

 

[Badbird]

Most of my knowledge of economics comes from history so I don't like to argue it because I don't feel like I can speak from a position of strength. My beliefs tend towards Social Democracy/Keynsian/Third Way ideas. Basically I agree with the more left leaning Democrats in American politics or a mix of NDP and Liberals in Canadian politics. Looking at things like the New Deal, the Marshall Plan and the West German Economic Miracle, these ideas seems like they work. I try to be open minded about economics though because I don't think any particular ideology will work in every situation and pragmatism is probably the best policy.

As always, Nick FTW. I know we have tons of haters on here who think Keynesian is a "socialist" idea but in my honest opinion, that the economics system I prefer the most. I can't stand Reganomics the most. Communist looks good on paper but horrible in practice.

 

[Badbird]

I can't wait to read the John Galt blog after todays trading. The market failed again to close over 8800. Going to be all sorts of sarcasm and funny bubble banana charts.

John Galt...uke:

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

tricker down economics

 

[Hell Patrol]

inb4 people say the rich should be taxed instead.

Which "should" work, at least until the rich people have no money left and we're all poor.

 

[Einherjar86]

The economic reason for not taxing the wealthy is sound, in my opinion. True businessmen don't hoard their wealth; they put it back into circulation, adding growth to the economy in general and to their company. They buy new equipment, expand in marketing and sales to reach more customers, and ultimately end up providing more jobs.

The image of the wealthy businessman who sits greedily on his pile of gold is a caricature that in some cases is true; but taxing all people who earn over a certain amount detracts from the amount that they can in turn feed back into the economy. Eventually this can lead to layoffs and companies closing.

Giving tax breaks to the poor might put more money in their pocket, but it does nothing to help them get jobs.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

You're basically right, but someone has to pay up. I'm all for bringing tariffs back, considering we're taken advantage of by a lot of countries in the name of "free trade".

 

[The Ozzman]

Tariffs actually hurt countries fyi

 

[Dak]

Only if you are a net importer (which we are now thanks to NAFTA).

Edit: BTW, How's everyones Silver investments doing? Oh that's right, the stock market had a 33% increase this year.......

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I actually bought 40 oz. earlier in the year, for about $970 total. Prices have gone way up since then. Not sure if I should buy more at this point or what.

 

[The Ozzman]

Do you actually hold the silver?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

ya

 

[Dak]

I think silver has a really strong possibility of making it into triple digits. The dollar is that weak and the market shorting is losing control over pricing.

 

[Pessimism]

The economic reason for not taxing the wealthy is sound, in my opinion. True businessmen don't hoard their wealth; they put it back into circulation, adding growth to the economy in general and to their company. They buy new equipment, expand in marketing and sales to reach more customers, and ultimately end up providing more jobs.

The image of the wealthy businessman who sits greedily on his pile of gold is a caricature that in some cases is true; but taxing all people who earn over a certain amount detracts from the amount that they can in turn feed back into the economy. Eventually this can lead to layoffs and companies closing.

Giving tax breaks to the poor might put more money in their pocket, but it does nothing to help them get jobs.

The assumption that seems to exist is that the wealthiest are business owners of some type that actually hire employee's. Many couples have a total income of over $250,000, and whether or not a tax break is initiated has no bearing on whether or not they hire someone as an employee. If a well off family has money, they are not going to go randomly hire some person to do god knows what; they keep and invest or spend.

Likewise, a "true businessman" is not going to spend money on product or equipment in an economy when they can barely save and sustain themselves. If a business has reached their growth limit in an area they then figure out how to reduce spending with what they already have. After all, it's hard to expand within a market when your consumer base is partitioning their paychecks between food and rent (and nothing else).

 

[Dak]

Why does the government need to increase taxes? Why not decrease spending?

 

[Einherjar86]

The assumption that seems to exist is that the wealthiest are business owners of some type that actually hire employee's. Many couples have a total income of over $250,000, and whether or not a tax break is initiated has no bearing on whether or not they hire someone as an employee. If a well off family has money, they are not going to go randomly hire some person to do god knows what; they keep and invest or spend.

Good point. I have a problem concerning primarily small businesses that are taxed.

Likewise, a "true businessman" is not going to spend money on product or equipment in an economy when they can barely save and sustain themselves. If a business has reached their growth limit in an area they then figure out how to reduce spending with what they already have. After all, it's hard to expand within a market when your consumer base is partitioning their paychecks between food and rent (and nothing else).

There are still plenty of small businesses that are growing and expanding even in this economy. It hasn't hurt everyone. Those who have still managed to expand should be allowed to prosper to their full extent.