The Fury of the Norsemen

[gcele]

So I wouldnt say that the Vikings liked the christians...
Would you like anyone who came into your house and said that you had to change your whole lifestyle?

What they DIDN'T like was that they were being forced to conversion. I doubt they would have liked it better if someone would have forced them to the fertility cults of the bronze age, or whatever.

And I doubt the slaves sacrificed at the blots were especially fond of the asa belief.

 

[Madkill]

Agnostic Atheists= Atheists whom believe that there is no higher form such as divinity, but do not claim that it is not possible.

... AKA people who conveniently propose foolproof rethoric.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

 

[Aggressor]

What they DIDN'T like was that they were being forced to conversion. I doubt they would have liked it better if someone would have forced them to the fertility cults of the bronze age, or whatever.

Well yes, but the point is that they didnt like christians...not that they wouldnt have liked any other religion that would have been forced down upon them...

And I think its quite different to have a religion, which followers you have looked down upon as false belivers, slain hundreds of, burnt their towns, their cities and their churches, forced down upon you, than a religion you've never heard of...

 

[gcele]

Well yes, but the point is that they didnt like christians...not that they wouldnt have liked any other religion that would have been forced down upon them...

Well, the reason they didn't like christians - those of their own people, that is - is that they forced a religion upon them. Not because they disliked christians out of sheer principle - they may have seen it as an unmanly religion (which they did, according to some Icelandic sagas I recently read), but they still tolerated christians.

 

[LunarTower]

... AKA people who conveniently propose foolproof rethoric.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

...well... yeah...
don't know how convenient it is, it is just what I believe, I dont believe there is any divinity we know of, but Im not denying the possibility there may be somehow... we certainly don't have the knowledge to say there is or isnt for sure... but I dont really focus on that, I focus on the now... and the now fucking sucks, lemme tell you.

As for a Pagan Norsemans view on Christians... probably would be alot like the view of a Military troop onto a 5'5 gay hairdresser with more money in his clothing and hair than the military guy has in his car... which is a new camaro.

 

[Madkill]

...well... yeah...
don't know how convenient it is, it is just what I believe, I dont believe there is any divinity we know of, but Im not denying the possibility there may be somehow... we certainly don't have the knowledge to say there is or isnt for sure... but I dont really focus on that, I focus on the now... and the now fucking sucks, lemme tell you.

As for a Pagan Norsemans view on Christians... probably would be alot like the view of a Military troop onto a 5'5 gay hairdresser with more money in his clothing and hair than the military guy has in his car... which is a new camaro.

Basic principle in Probability 101 ... ANYTHING is possible

The second part of your statement almost made me piss myself, that was hilarous

 

[deth2naturalice]

I". Our strength as humans lies not in individuals, but in numbers, and it always has - hey, guess why we've got societies? All that bullshit about the strife and the struggle being the "natural way" is just - well, bullshit. War has seldom come up with anything good... except for in the view of the ravens, perhaps. Sometimes it's the least bad option, but seeing war or physical struggle as "natural selection"... didn't you know that to be judged fit for being a soldier, you must pass certain physical tests? Thus, the strong die.

Your assuming that strength is in muscle. The grunts on the front lines aren't the intelegent ones, they aren't commanding the troops or building the bombs. They are the drop outs, many of whom are trying to escape personal responsibility(no offense to any in the service). To say that war has come up with nothing good is pretty ignorant. Look at how a war stimulates an economy, it promotes the development of new products Ie. cars, aviation, communications, food preservation(I'm not referring to the first emmergence of these products but to how far they've come) not to mention social revolution; Ex: Women in the work force, blacks in military. Everything pretty much trickles down. Also could you explain the "strife and struggle" part, were you claiming that it's not a fact of life?

 

[Eisbär]

War stimulates economy? Perhaps in ur nasty dreams, but not in reality.
The only thing we got is shit, THX to war. Much too high gas prices for example...And social revolution? Where, please?
Perhaps I'm blind, so I don't see it. Ahhh....perhaps you meant that Iraq-government shit. Uhhh....replacing a dictatorship with a "democratical one"....
The only thing about peace reached through war is oppressing an oppositon, but that is not real peace in my eyes.

didn't you know that to be judged fit for being a soldier, you must pass certain physical tests? Thus, the strong die

That's shit. These are normal tests everybody with a normal health status can pass. Strong die? Not really.

 

[deth2naturalice]

War stimulates economy? Perhaps in ur nasty dreams, but not in reality.
The only thing we got is shit, THX to war. Much too high gas prices for example...And social revolution? Where, please?
Perhaps I'm blind, so I don't see it. Ahhh....perhaps you meant that Iraq-government shit. Uhhh....replacing a dictatorship with a "democratical one"....
The only thing about peace reached through war is oppressing an oppositon, but that is not real peace in my eyes.


That's shit. These are normal tests everybody with a normal health status can pass. Strong die? Not really.

First off war does stimulate the economy, of the warring party. Not to mention in the event of winning a war, look at after WWII, the baby boomers and the huge ammounts of consumerism. I can see it from your point of view, you lost. But look at it this way, that car you drive, it wouldn't be half as efficient if it wasn't for war, Ex. BMW, maker of airplane engines, now builds some of the finest cars in the world, not to mention Volkswagon. What about the autobahn? Devised to aid in troop and tank movements and now serves the public.
I gave you examples of social revolution, I'm not sure how much this affected Germany due to the communist occupation but Women in the workforce gave major leverage in the womens movement in the US.
When it comes to gas prices, ours are going down. Perhaps yours are remaining high because of the whole Iraqi loan situation with German and French companies.

 

[Eisbär]

Warring parties...jupp, but only they're influenced. -see question further down-
Baby boomers? Where? Not in Germany, at least I don't know it.
Huge consumerism...okay, there ur right, but there's one thing you could think about.
Before war, everything is cool, during war everything gets fucked up, after war everthing is fucked up but begins to grow again....You understand what I mean?

I don't drive a car personally, and BMW - fine cars? <-You have a bad tase, huh?
Do you know how we call BMW in Germany? "Brett mit Warzen" or "Bayrischer Mistwagen".
Volkswagen? Average cars for too much cash.
Wouldn't be as efficient if it wasn't for war??? Hö, was los?
I don't think that companies use their research results (weapons, military devices...) for the normal production. I think they have at least 2 different categories (the official one: cars for example / the unofficial ones:weapons...)which mustn't stand in direct contact.

Okay, I confess that I don't completely understand your example. The reason might be (you guessed it) that I live in the communistic reigned part of Germany. Jupp, I'm a DDR child, and I havn't any problems with that.
I don't have any experiences with sexistic politics in any form, 'cuz I see women as equal in ranks as men.

I think, we both can see the other ones oppinion as wrong, so I think it would be best for us to combine them. In a view you have right, but I'm still able to partly destroy your thesis.
In the end I have a question for you. How effects all these improvements through war you in a personally way?
When I need a new CD, or new stuff for my bass or whatever else, there're aren't any improvements to find. It still costs the same, but prices for gas and stuff are exploding. Not so nice...

"When it comes to gas prices, ours are going down. Perhaps yours are remaining high because of the whole Iraqi loan situation with German and French companies."
Should I see this as a lame form of insult or not...
I think the Americans have still problems with us Germans and the Frenchies...lame.

 

[Aggressor]

I think the Americans have still problems with us Germans and the Frenchies...lame.

Well, when it comes to french people...nobody likes them so...
But the Germans, overall are a nice people

 

[gcele]

OK, I'll answer you one by one...

That's shit. These are normal tests everybody with a normal health status can pass. Strong die? Not really.
OK, let me rephrase that: Warring has no greater effect on "natural selection", which some are so fond to talk about.

Your assuming that strength is in muscle. The grunts on the front lines aren't the intelegent ones, they aren't commanding the troops or building the bombs.
Oh. So, the stupid ones die, then? Or is it just those too young or misfortunate to have reached high positions?

To say that war has come up with nothing good is pretty ignorant. Look at how a war stimulates an economy, it promotes the development of new products Ie. cars, aviation, communications, food preservation(I'm not referring to the first emmergence of these products but to how far they've come) not to mention social revolution; Ex: Women in the work force, blacks in military. Everything pretty much trickles down.
What I said is that it's sometimes the least bad option, and that it seldom results in anything good. Sure, when the assault on Iraq was launche - err, as far as I remember it, there was a brief period of joy, but then the stock markets resumed their steady course downwards.
As for the "social revolutions", I'd accredit those more to the civil rights movements.

And remember, the "war" didn't begin with Iraq, should you believe Bush. This whole "war on terrorism" begun September 11th, 2001. Was that good for the economy, remind me?

Also could you explain the "strife and struggle" part, were you claiming that it's not a fact of life?
Ah, that's not really what I meant, I put that a bit too vaguely. I referred to physical strife/struggle (e.g., bashing each other's heads in). Strife and struggle are a sound part of any healthy market economy, of course, although in the shape of competition than sending intercontinental missiles on each other. Also, some tend to forget that cooperation is at least as important for progress as competition.

 

[deth2naturalice]

Warring parties...jupp, but only they're influenced. -see question further down-
Baby boomers? Where? Not in Germany, at least I don't know it.
Huge consumerism...okay, there ur right, but there's one thing you could think about.
Before war, everything is cool, during war everything gets fucked up, after war everthing is fucked up but begins to grow again....You understand what I mean?

I don't drive a car personally, and BMW - fine cars? <-You have a bad tase, huh?
Do you know how we call BMW in Germany? "Brett mit Warzen" or "Bayrischer Mistwagen".
Volkswagen? Average cars for too much cash.
Wouldn't be as efficient if it wasn't for war??? Hö, was los?
I don't think that companies use their research results (weapons, military devices...) for the normal production. I think they have at least 2 different categories (the official one: cars for example / the unofficial ones:weapons...)which mustn't stand in direct contact.

Okay, I confess that I don't completely understand your example. The reason might be (you guessed it) that I live in the communistic reigned part of Germany. Jupp, I'm a DDR child, and I havn't any problems with that.
I don't have any experiences with sexistic politics in any form, 'cuz I see women as equal in ranks as men.

I think, we both can see the other ones oppinion as wrong, so I think it would be best for us to combine them. In a view you have right, but I'm still able to partly destroy your thesis.
In the end I have a question for you. How effects all these improvements through war you in a personally way?
When I need a new CD, or new stuff for my bass or whatever else, there're aren't any improvements to find. It still costs the same, but prices for gas and stuff are exploding. Not so nice...

"When it comes to gas prices, ours are going down. Perhaps yours are remaining high because of the whole Iraqi loan situation with German and French companies."
Should I see this as a lame form of insult or not...
I think the Americans have still problems with us Germans and the Frenchies...lame.

The baby boom occured in America post WWII, The returning soldiers came home and procreated, purchased homes and new products and the country was prosperous. There were many new technical developments durring this time due to all the money being circulated. This would have never happened if there was simply social stagnation, unrest and war bring change. I realize we wont be able to convince each other, but as for it affecting my life, I drive a Nissan, a Japanise car, cheap and efficient, this would never exist if it wasn't for WWII. As a part of the post war reconstruction of Japan the US taught them how to design and build automobiles and now they build them better than us (relatively). "When it comes to gas prices, ours are going down. Perhaps yours are remaining high because of the whole Iraqi loan situation with German and French companies."
Should I see this as a lame form of insult or not...
I think the Americans have still problems with us Germans and the Frenchies...lame"
Not at all, I could care less about the US's official relations with Germany, I have my own opinion, my father's grandparents migrated from germany, so I shouldn't bash it. I'm not quite sure how you interpreted it as an insult, however, this war has effected everyones oil, our prices seem to be going down.

 

[deth2naturalice]

OK, I'll answer you one by one...


--"Oh. So, the stupid ones die, then? Or is it just those too young or misfortunate to have reached high positions?"--
This is innacurate, a sociological prospective doesn't apply to the military, at least in the US. If one shows enough potential and intelegence he would be recomended for officers school, the drafts still apply to those of sufficient age to become an officer. Do you mean "unfortunate" because the military will pay for everything, schooling ect...

--To say that war has come up with nothing good is pretty ignorant. Look at how a war stimulates an economy, it promotes the development of new products Ie. cars, aviation, communications, food preservation(I'm not referring to the first emmergence of these products but to how far they've come) not to mention social revolution; Ex: Women in the work force, blacks in military. Everything pretty much trickles down.
What I said is that it's sometimes the least bad option, and that it seldom results in anything good. Sure, when the assault on Iraq was launche - err, as far as I remember it, there was a brief period of joy, but then the stock markets resumed their steady course downwards.
As for the "social revolutions", I'd accredit those more to the civil rights movements. "--
ahh.. but much more progress has come with these revolutions through war than other means.

--And remember, the "war" didn't begin with Iraq, should you believe Bush. This whole "war on terrorism" begun September 11th, 2001. Was that good for the economy, remind me?--

I see this as more of a "police action" than a war. But the aquiring of contracts for Bektel to rebuild Iraq is deffinately good for the US economy and many others because of their international hiring policies. Not to mention the natural resources that have been "aquired".

Also could you explain the "strife and struggle" part, were you claiming that it's not a fact of life?
Ah, that's not really what I meant, I put that a bit too vaguely. I referred to physical strife/struggle (e.g., bashing each other's heads in). Strife and struggle are a sound part of any healthy market economy, of course, although in the shape of competition than sending intercontinental missiles on each other. Also, some tend to forget that cooperation is at least as important for progress as competition.

 

[Brainkisser]

I am a Christian, and I love vikings and the norsemen. a lot of people apparently don't understand that, but I can't help but love the Norse. I know amon amarth talks about how the Christians are brutal savages (as in the references to Christians slaying his sons....??). if that were true, i'd love it.

Ok, your religion is supposed to be peaceful and loving, right? You want to know why it's called brutal and savage? Take a look at the time period from say 400 CE to say 1450 CE. Pretty much all of Europe was christian, supposed to be loving their neighbors. Do you have any idea how many of their neighbors they killed? God is on everyone's side, and still everyone dies. The Hundred Year's War between England and France had enormous casulties on both sides; both sides were christian, and had god as their ally. Hell, the christian King Philip the Fair (I think that's the right one) of France had one of the Popes beaten to death.

Sure the basic teaching may be peaceful, but the followers sure as hell aren't. My big problem with christianity is its need to make everyone else believe it. You want to believe it fine, but you try to make me swallow it and you'll have your ass on a platter.

 

[M.]

if johan hegg had a son, and somebody killed him, i wouldnt love it, i'd be like, you done fucked up now! i could stalk them and give their address to hegg. wow, it's a good thing nobody writes amon amarth fanfic. [shudders at the thought]

 

[Cimmerian]

heh, brainkisser, expand those dates man. Everyone knows about Roman oppression of christians, but most don't realize how fucking quick the turnaround was when Constantine converted. Immediatley in Rome one finds accounts of Christians doing exactley what the state religion had done, in some cases worse. Also...no body suspects the spanish inquisition

 

[LeoP]

Fuck, I hate it when almost evrything I wanted to say has allready been said.

First off, I think it's brave by wintermetalsmith to go in here and post what he did. However, you are a fool. Of course the Northmen hated the christians and the white christ. As said before, christianity was beaten into them, just as most of Europe and other parts of the world. Contless thousands of people were killed and tortured, christians didn't exactly practise what they preached, and STILL don't! Sweden held out the longest, until about the 13'th century. This is what Amon's lyrics are all about. I don't mind that you listen to Amon, it's money in their pocket, however I don't listen to bands that I disagree with so much.

What is this BULLSHIT that people are not born into christianity, countless kids thoughout the world are raised to be christians, not free thinking people. I mean according to the bible god gave free will to man and then he said "You are free to make a choice but if you don't fear me and do evrything I say you'll burn in hell for all etinity". That's basically what kids are taught! Does that promote free thought and active choice? NO! No wonder many of us prefer the Asar (norse gods). I'll tell you what, I'll take a walk up Bifrost bridge and fight and drink evry day by Odins side as one of the Einherjer in Valhall over christian heaven any day of the week.

Bottom line is that if it hadn't been for christianity forcing itself on the Norse, we would still have a lot of our culture intact, as it is, most of it was destroyed by christians. Vikings never did that! Sure they raided, they even owned England, twice, each time they gave it back in exchange for loot, only to come back the next year and do it all over again , but they never forced their religion or culture on anyone!

 

[Heavy Metal Samurai]

It's also estimated that Christians killed around 5 million people after they "Discovered" America.

Native Americans and Aztec's etc. were slaughtered in their thousands for not believing in God, It's also believed that stories of Ritualistic Human sacrifices by Aztecs, was invented by Christians to make them appear as savages.

Who are the savages?

"We come in peace, your God is shit"

So much of the bible has been altered in the past 2000 years it doesn't even make sense anymore.

Christianity is a plauge, and Metal is the cure

 

[Patric]

You guys should smoke more herb

NP: Behemoth-Zos Kia Cultus