The illegal download/piracy/legal download/music business in 2011 thread

Picking on you? No. Trying to explain what should be patently obvious - yes. That this is annoying for you is of no consequence because I don't think a perpetrator of theft in the same circumstances as you should be sympathised with. I sympathise that your circumstances aren't as convenient as others but that's life. It's also a fact of life that the reasons you give just don't excuse taking something that isn't your property. It emphatically does not go for everyone that stealing and taking the easiest route is always justifiable. Black and white. Not open for discussion, I'm afraid. I'm actually flabbergasted that you can't understand that, but I hope some day you will. A decent person isn't going to think highly of someone with that attitude towards life, my friend.

I said I'm not meaning to be judgemental and I know this seems preachy so I'm just going to stop now because it's futile until the day you grow up and learn some responsibility for your actions.
 
I understand what you're trying to say, but all you're doing here is say how much of a thief I am and make stuff up about me....your pathetic argument ends here my friend.

Say all this to the millions of people who download pirated music, and I'd love to see how they would react to this.
 
This is the argument I have heard for years from people... and unfortunately, no matter how hard you argue what you just said with them, Steve, it seems like they refuse to accept it as the truth. The end rebuttal always seems to be, "Well maybe they should make better music, hurf durf" and you can't argue with such an ignorant statement like that.

I truly am jealous in a way of the story of Young Steve you told - that's an experience I've always heard about but have not experienced, and I sadly never will - I've been growing up in the age of Napster, Kazaa, Limewire, and torrents...

I'm very interested to see how everything will have evolved by the time I'm your age, Steve... only half your age later this month, I'm slowly catching up!

I do consider myself fortunate to have grown up when I did. By the time you are the age I am now dude....I'll be approaching 60, if I'm still here of course! lol! I'm sure the world of music and the world in general will be a far different proposition by then.
 
:lol:


If you think I've made stuff up or that not stealing is pathetic then you clearly haven't understood a thing. You see this is why people can't engage you in conversation or take you seriously.
I'll tell you this: the only people that may find me as a bad person or with bad attitude/personality on this forum is MERELY you and maybe 1928 as well.

I have a lot on my mind already and I've been having some serious headache since this morning so I really don't want to continue debating with you about this. You need to learn to be nicer, even if you disagree about something.

I hope that things won't get worse, see ya later.
 
Although I don't pirate music, what I do occasionally do is, a mate will buy a CD and I'll copy it onto my laptop/iPod or visa versa. Although I think this might be technically illegal, in my (perhaps nieve and biased) view, it's not that bad as one of you has paid for the music. I've discovered some great bands this way - actually this was how I got into metal in the first place all those years ago (well, 2005, at the tender age of 15. that probably makes me a newbie to some of the more senior members ;) ).

But yeah aside from that, it's the musicians job to make the product, and as a consumer of that product you should be paying for it. It's not a charity (although as a side note, a power metal christmas single in the style of Do They Know It's Christmas Time with loads of different musicians would be awesome!)
 
Thanks for anwser Steve:D atleast i found a site selling the japan cd this time^^

Symphonic life...i don't care how you get your music, it's none of my business,but for crying out loud....please stop saying that your forced to get your music this way, or saying that it's the only way!!! no1 is acually forced to download, there's always one way or another to buy music lol

I aslo wonder:
You said PQ is one of your favorite bands, right? this means the the bandmembers in one way or another are your idols, right? if we forget all that bout stealing and right and wrong...don't you atleast wanna support your idols? i atleast feel this way(well i see it as theft to download too, but you get the point...)
 
I'll tell you this: the only people that may find me as a bad person or with bad attitude/personality on this forum is MERELY you and maybe 1928 as well.

I have a lot on my mind already and I've been having some serious headache since this morning so I really don't want to continue debating with you about this. You need to learn to be nicer, even if you disagree about something.

I hope that things won't get worse, see ya later.

I'm not so sure if that's an accurate assessment. I've been civil but there is just no reasoning with you.
 
My 2 cents:
I have downloaded in the past. I still bought the vast majority of my music, but if it were an artist I was unsure about, etc, I would - and it's a habit where once you start, it's difficult to stop. Only your morals stop you from doing it since otherwise it's easy. I'm doing my best to stop now (in fact, there's an idea for a belated New Years' resolution). It's not a good habit to get into. I think you're much more likely to listen to the music and enjoy it if you've paid for it yourself - I mean, you want to get your money's worth!

Symphonic Life - Sorry, but I can't agree that Dom made things up or that "stealing is wrong" is classed as a "pathetic argument".
I understand your point about it being easier, but really, with the wealth of options available for buying online now it just isn't an excuse now. If you have a bank account, you can pay online with Paypal.

Symphonic Life said:
If I was for example living in the UK I would definitely buy my music because it would be available nearly everywhere. But here, it's not that way unfortunately.
I've found that, well, there isn't that much here.
If I were to walk into HMV (well, the ones that are still open) and went to the Metal section, you wouldn't find Power Quest. In my experience, it's quite difficult to find Power Metal at all. You might find a little Nightwish, or Dragonforce, Hammerfall. But none of the more "obscure" (if you like) metal which we enjoy.
The last time I walked into a shop to buy a CD was... at least a year ago, if not more. When I buy physical copies, I go to Amazon or Play.com or similar (recently, Cdjapan!) and get them delivered to my house - which I think you would be able to do as well. Otherwise, there's always digital downloads.

Symphonic Life said:
Say all this to the millions of people who download pirated music, and I'd love to see how they would react to this.
What's right isn't a matter of numbers, don't you think? And for the millions that do, there'll be plenty more that don't - if you wanted to go down that road.

Symphony said:
One thing that really needs to be considered is that downloading/mp3/internet whatever you want to label it as is breeding a generation who don't necessarily buy into the concept of the "album". I listen to kids talking and it's all about how many songs they have on their iPod rather than how many albums. "Have you heard the new song by X" as opposed to "Have you heard their new album"
I think that depends who you ask. A lot of my friends are quite shocked that my iPod consists (mostly) of entire albums, and I think it depends on the genre. Pop music seems to have a lot of "one-hit wonders", who'll put out a single which everyone will get then fade into obscurity, which leads to them only having singles or odd tracks. As a metal fan, I find getting entire albums much more satisfying, and I have much more music to listen to. Metal is more about the whole album as opposed to singles and big hits.

Excuse my bashing of pop. :p

EDIT: That turned into much more than 2 cents. More like £7.99's worth. Someone take all my words and buy an album with it!
 
You know, we were discussing this topic in my lecture today. The lecturer presented the quite terrifying concept that in 10-20 years, there may be a generation brought up entirely on "the latest thing" every day and having no concept of 'good' music (however one would define this).

What also worried me was sitting in a room with people generally in their 20s and when asked how many of us still listen to entire albums, 2 of us (the metal fans) put our hands up. Does that scare other people?
 
Whatever way you look at it, illegal downloading (and piracy) is exactly that, illegal and therefore a crime. However, I have got into bands, and bought entire back catalogues by those artists, by downloading a couple of songs online. Without this, I probably never would have heard or got into some of my favourite bands (and therefore never seen them live)

Japanese only bonus tracks is a difficult one. Mainly as, for convenience reasons, I'd rather buy a copy from this country. Also Japanese albums are usually more expensive, although the fact that the new PQ comes out several months earlier almost overcomes that fact. I personally wouldn't mind being given the chance of say maybe downloading the bonus tracks, for an appropriate cost, from the PQ website.

In terms of sales, where does the sale of a Japanese copy get registered is say someone from the UK buys it? In other words, does it get counted as a Japanese or a UK sale (and therefore which country does it help possible tour numbers?)

Unfortunately, legal downloading looks more and more to be the future. This could cause the end of the physical album and maybe even the idea of an album itself, which won't help bands who are more album orientated (like PQ). By this I mean the bands who probably, for various reasons, won't ever stand a chance of troubling the singles charts.
 
I can't believe what I've been reading...

It doesn't matter that it "makes your life easier." It doesn't matter that it's "the only way to obtain music." Music is not a necessity in life. It is not feeding your family, earning a paycheck, securing a place to live for yourself. It's a form of entertainment. Would you defend pirating movies, as well? It's theft. I just cannot for the life of me comprehend how you can't understand this simple concept. Stop trying to justify pirating music. You can't - it's wrong, and you're just trying to delude yourself and pass the blame onto someone or something else for your situation.

With technology these days, sure, it's incredibly tempting. But to jump to these extremes like you do, to assume people are "picking on you" simply by pointing out the flaw in your logic, to get so upset when everybody else is being civil... I really think you either need to take a break from the forum or reassess your approach to these topics. The fact alone that you advocated piracy right under Steve's nose and then to Steve himself shows how little you really understand about this subject. Your only argument is that "it's easier" - well, yea, it's easier for everybody else in the world, too.

There are plenty of legal sites to listen to music on. Last.fm, Pandora, Spotify, Rhapsody, plenty of others... and you can buy music from there too. Maybe you don't have a credit card or means of paying online, I don't know how it is over in Israel. But you cannot sit there and audaciously defend something you've admitted is wrong simply because you think your situation is unique (which it isn't).

I just really don't like how you have this tendency to jump to upsetting extremes and lash out at anybody who disagrees with you. If there's any reason I have a problem with you, it's *that.* But you refuse to see it that way until things have gotten out of hand... it's quite bothersome. Dom is entirely correct in what he's been saying, and there's no reason to attack him for that.
 
What also worried me was sitting in a room with people generally in their 20s and when asked how many of us still listen to entire albums, 2 of us (the metal fans) put our hands up. Does that scare other people?

Yup, i've been in a similar situation once...sometimes i wonder what has happened to the world...
 
The only justification I have for my rampant illegal downloading is the old "I try before I buy" argument. Before you roll your eyes though, please hear me out on this.

Downloading is an enormous help to me deciding what to buy. I could read review after review and maybe listen to the samples on youtube or myspace or whatever, but it's only through listening to the album all of the way through can I be sure I know what I am getting when I put my money down for an album. I know that I am not wasting money when I buy an album, and the money saved from not buying duffers means more money I can put into the music I like, in the form of CDs, gig tickets and t-shirts. Some people like the building of anticipation, the feeling of buying the CD/record/whatever, taking it home, unwrapping the cellophane and feeling excited about what they will hear for the first time. I prefer the feeling that I know I have not wasted my money. A lot of people I speak to feel similarly. Thanks to their downloading, they spend more money on music than they did before they started downloading, as they don't need to be cautious about what they buy.

After reading through the posts here so far, I had a quick look through the list of orders I placed through Amazon and worked out that in 2010 on that site alone I spent £323.26 on music. Money I have spent on other websites and merch stalls adds a little to the total, taking it to about £350-£360. I must have spent at least £400-£500 on gig tickets (though I am counting the festivals I went to). I haven't spent as much as I used to on t-shirts, probably about £70 on them. Last night I spent about £65 on CDs, all of which I downloaded and listened to first before making my decision.

I have little faith in the idea that the best artists always have the most success. People like to think that the best bands sell the most, and then proceed to slag off Bon Jovi, U2, Coldplay, and many other artists who are selling out stadiums. The usual (pre-downloading) model seems strange to me. Whenever I hear figures about how many albums were sold by an artist, I start thinking that most, if not all of these people probably have not heard the album beyond what's played on the radio. The sad fact is that people so often buy music because they have been manipulated into thinking it is worth buying by the marketing machine, rather than because it is any good (which is pretty much the story of consumerism). It doesn't seem right to me that people will buy something not because it's the best, but because it has been the best promoted.

It's not something I can apply to everything I do in life, of course. Most things don't allow me to "try before I buy", and for various reasons I wouldn't expect them to, but at least one of my passions in life allows me that privilege. I think it makes a difference that I am not taking a physical item, rather I'm making a copy of it instead.

The inevitable problem is those people who just want something for nothing. At this point I feel like I'm in a debate about gun ownership. Sure there are people who use it responsibly, but we have to deal with those who basically can't and/or won't. And believe me, these people piss me off as much as they piss off those who are fully against illegal downloading.

One question for all those opposed to piracy is, how do you feel about buying music second-hand? After all, none of the money paid for it goes to either the artist or the record company.

Also:
fraserwatt1990 said:
(although as a side note, a power metal christmas single in the style of Do They Know It's Christmas Time with loads of different musicians would be awesome!)



And BTW, ever wondered who has committed the most piracy? Not filesharers, but major record labels:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=20632

http://www.dailytech.com/UK+Manager...+More+Music+Than+Filesharers/article16446.htm
 
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I can't believe what I've been reading...

It doesn't matter that it "makes your life easier." It doesn't matter that it's "the only way to obtain music." Music is not a necessity in life. It is not feeding your family, earning a paycheck, securing a place to live for yourself. It's a form of entertainment. Would you defend pirating movies, as well? It's theft. I just cannot for the life of me comprehend how you can't understand this simple concept. Stop trying to justify pirating music. You can't - it's wrong, and you're just trying to delude yourself and pass the blame onto someone or something else for your situation.

With technology these days, sure, it's incredibly tempting. But to jump to these extremes like you do, to assume people are "picking on you" simply by pointing out the flaw in your logic, to get so upset when everybody else is being civil... I really think you either need to take a break from the forum or reassess your approach to these topics. The fact alone that you advocated piracy right under Steve's nose and then to Steve himself shows how little you really understand about this subject. Your only argument is that "it's easier" - well, yea, it's easier for everybody else in the world, too.

There are plenty of legal sites to listen to music on. Last.fm, Pandora, Spotify, Rhapsody, plenty of others... and you can buy music from there too. Maybe you don't have a credit card or means of paying online, I don't know how it is over in Israel. But you cannot sit there and audaciously defend something you've admitted is wrong simply because you think your situation is unique (which it isn't).

I just really don't like how you have this tendency to jump to upsetting extremes and lash out at anybody who disagrees with you. If there's any reason I have a problem with you, it's *that.* But you refuse to see it that way until things have gotten out of hand... it's quite bothersome. Dom is entirely correct in what he's been saying, and there's no reason to attack him for that.
I'll sum up your boring post with this:

I don't care what you're thinking, and I already told you (probably) 5 times by now about that I can't buy or order online from the internet. Even if I have a bank account! It doesn't matter man.
 
Thank you for summing up my 'boring' post even though you continue to be stubborn and thickheaded about the most basic concepts... It's like talking to a wall. Dom's right, there is no reasoning with you!
 
..........

Why be a chicken and edit your post? Obviously there is 'reasoning' with me....but some here are probably too bulked up now so maybe I shall take a little break from the forum as I told to Steve