The Intelligent Design/Evolution Discussion Thread
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zoidberg
Mallcore Kid
AchrisK
Weakling
AchrisK
Weakling
Afraid of thinking from a different direction? It can't hurt to investigate the opposition's claims. He asked for proof. Not proof for or against, just proof in general. So I gave links to both sides. Although I have to admit that I haven't read much from the "trueorigin" web site, so I can't vouch for the level of quality.
The US Government recently gave the Israel military $30 billion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6948981.stm
I actually did look over it. Not only is it creationist, it is young earth creationist. All the website does is make claims without evidence and then say the counter evidence against them is biased. It's pure bullshit and I'm sick of it.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
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I know. They've been giving them billions of dollars. They also increased their aid to many other countries as well.
Matt
Active Member
Matt
Active Member
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
There are numerous sources that document the physical reality of humanity, other then your eye balls and common sense that is. Forensic science has adopted the discipline of physical anthropology using traditional methods to identify human populations by their non-living physical appearance and then assign them to taxonomic categories. Professor George Gill is an expert at this discipline, a relevant quote from one of his articles is particularly interesting in this regard.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/gill.html
Clyde Snow is one of the best forensic anthropologist on the planet, he has investigated bones for years and investigated political murders and many other things. He can identify human populations by their physical appearance, not only by what he sees while walking down the street but rather examining their bones, because ‘the bones don’t lie’.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-120397451.html
Vincent Sarich has contributed greatly to evolution, his biochemical research detailed that our common ancestor with chimpanzees lived a lot more recent then previously believed by paleontologist, who thought our common ancestor 15 or 20 millions years ago, but it was around 5 million years ago, he determined this by the molecular clock theory. He along with Frank Miele wrote a book about the physical differences of humanity, along with other differences that don’t concern me, I’m more about physical differences rather then IQ levels etc. The book is called “Race: The Reality of Human differences”, here is a relevant quote from this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Race-Reality-Differences-Vincent-Sarich/dp/0813340861
There is much more really.
Keeping to your own group isn’t bad, it is when you try to rule over others, that is bad. My historical examples aren’t flawed, they are sound. These historical examples of ethnic tension didn’t happen because they lived apart, to the contrary, it was because they lived together…if they didn’t how could there be any tension? They would have to meet up sooner or later.
Exactly my point, Athens was a Greek city state that was dominate over the other city states. Athens was democracy with some of the best academics of the classical world who are still remembered to the present day, they were ruled by Pericles, a very popular statesman. Sparta was a military warlike society ruled by the educated classes, an oligarchy, this political and cultural diversity was more then enough to start an inter-European war which practically destroyed classical Greece. Yes they were both Greeks, no my point isn’t irrelevant, I’m demonstrating European tension based on differences.
That is usually the final result, one culture will eventually dominate over the other cultures, whoever has the sharper elbows will have their way of life dominate. The Romans however were very tolerant of other cultures and religions etc, as long as it wasn’t against the Roman state, like Christianity. Anybody who knows anything about Rome will now that they were very tolerant…their tolerance came with a price.
I know there was no agenda based on people of different ancestry, I’m referring to European tension over politics, culture, religion etc. The French revolution and the Napoleonic wars did have a cultural effect, that latter turn centuries of European traditions on it’s head, Switzerland if a prime example of that. Please read what I said again.
Yes it was caused by the diversity of peoples living within the Austro-Hungarian empire, the Slavs wanted independence from the dual monarchy of Austria and Hungry, this lead Gavrilo Princip to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand, which lead to immediate action against the Kingdom of Serbia by the Austria and the Russians sided with the Slavs and before you know, a war broke out over ethnic tension, with each ethnic group wanting independence from Austro-Hungarian empire.
Humans are part of the taxonomic category ‘animal’ or ‘Animalia’ Kingdom, our phylum is Chordata, our class is Mammalia, our order is Primate, our family is Hominidae, our genus is Homo, our species is sapiens. But if you are referring to non-human species, humans aren’t excluded from the laws of nature.
Yes, exactly my point, just because a nation is ‘secular’ doesn’t mean they are ultra intelligent or that they will not find something else to blind themselves with. Just because I quote from you doesn’t mean I’m giving you a rebuttal.
I never said that you did say anything like that and I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you that a religious state is bad for science, what I’m saying is you can have your religion and still embrace evolution. Whether or not you believe Jesus Christ is your savior doesn’t have to cloud your knowledge on base pairing rules, natural selection, fossil evidence, and all other forms of properties that exist in the physical world.
First of all, Christianity has changed over the centuries. At first it was claimed by the Church that the earth was flat, if any European claimed the contrary, he or she would very likely have been burned at the state, or found guilty by the Inquisition and experience horrors unimaginable by many.
That goes for astronomical knowledge as well, the church dogma proclaimed that the sun rotated around the earth despite knowledge to the contrary. The church based their claim on biblical scriptures, Joshua, 10 v12, 13 proclaims “..Sun stand thou still upon Gibeon….And the sun stood still in the midst of heaven..” The church took this as a sign that the sun rotates around the earth, but the reality is much different, the earth spins on it’s axis around rotates around the sun. This lead to scientist such as Galileo Galilei to face persecution for stating the heliocentric theory.
So my point is, the Christians of today better not claim the earth is flat and then sun rotates around the earth, just as they better not try to discredit the fact that genes in a population of organisms change over time, that traits become dominate through natural selection, genetic drift is random, humans of billions of years of non-human ancestry, we share a common ancestor with Chimpanzees and so on. In a nutshell, they need to revise their thinking, I want people to believe evolution and not see it as some wacky pseudoscientific perspective and this will not happen if you try secularize everybody. Skip religion, go straight to science.
Politicians follow political trends, for the most part, to get elected, they hide their personal beliefs if it will get them in trouble with the public or other powerful political elements. As far as the entire government pretending to be Christian, I can’t speak for all politicians but historically speaking, politicians have done just that, take a look at Abraham Lincoln. With today’s American federal government, they most certainly aren’t making choices on their Christian thought process, not in a traditional sense that is.
A small tip of advice, don’t take what the politicians claim to be very seriously, I’m sure you wouldn’t find it difficult to see politicians talking out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to religion, abortion, gay marriage, etc. What is the evidence to support a claim to what their true motives are? Well, the documentation is endless, you can read their speeches, analyze their legislative history, the bills they do or don’t support and why they do or don’t support them, you can read their dairies, request interviews, you can become a political biographer etc. You will see them contradict themselves over and over, it doesn’t matter because a lot of people never call them out.
You are right, public pressure does in many cases effect the governments decision making, with regards to Christianity, it certainly has an effect on federal funding for stem cell research, but it doesn’t effect other branches of science so much. To solve this problem would be advice all religious people to revise their thinking on scientific matters on evolution. Here is the thing, there is a hate crime bill that has been introduced to Congress for years trying to give the federal government more powers to enforce hate crime laws against gays, because state law is inadequate. That doesn’t sound very Christian to me, if anything, America is governed by the laws of political correctness then Christianity. The Jewish lobby influences domestic policy as well, they have influence over state and federal legislative bodies through bribery and money, it is perfectly legal for them to give politicians money to vote a certain way.
