The Moor / Dune similarities

[Black Session]

Sorry to say it, but there's nothing there to understand. It's all style, no substance. This stuff appeals to college students who think it's cool because the plot is actually incomprehensible or there's no plot at all. I know because I used to be one of those people. Unless of course you care to offer a detailed explanation of the 'epic poetry' of lost highway which my vastly inferior brain can't possibly comprehend.

But no, you can't. That's what I thought.

give me some time to respond I'm not on this forum the whole day you know, have a lot more work to do ...

actually lost highway isn't that complicated. first of all, the theme is completely based on Faust ...
second of all, same as with poetry, or as with music, the intention is to create a mood, or feeling that goes much deeper than a "normal" emotion would. so when I ask you to explain exactly what you experience when you listen to some of your favourite bands, and to explain me exactly what is going on, than that is no problem for you? than you can give me an exact description that will make perfectly clear to me what the experience is? no you can't, because it's beyond words, that's why we have music and poetry, and certain films (wish there would be more, instead of story-movies), and art ... so besides a main theme (which is faust), it creates an atmosphere and calls up emotions which can put you in to a certain state and make you experience things and can make things clear to you without saying it out loud.

so yes I can answer your questions, but perhaps this means absolute bullshit to you again. and you will say: I only feel boredom when watching it. so that's your right, as it is the right for a lot of people to feel only boredom when listening to opeth or other great bands.
'nough said? because you can't put it all in to words, you must realize that

p.s.: I never said that you have an inferior brain, I just said that you don't seem to get Lynch, which is not an insult. it's just not your thing perhaps ... lots of great art out there, but none of it can speak to everyone, mostly it can't even reach a lot of people, no matter how intelligent or comprehensive they are.

 

[wankerness]

Blue Velvet was definitely not a great movie, I thought the plot went nowhere. Mulholland was slightly better. I don't see what was so great about the Elephant Man. Yeah, it was sad, but that wasn't due to Lynch it was just good acting. He could have made it far more interesting than just saying "hey, here's a freak, let's show how shit his life was and cry". And have you seen Lost Highway? What a piece of garbage. Still, I liked Dune, the story was told in a very literal way with little emotion. I don't see why it is a 'mess', anyone who has read the book or seen the film more than once will understand it.

I haven't seen lost highway, and I really hated the elephant man (though that was due to the horrible hallmark entertainment style script, not his direction). I also loathed Eraserhead, and yes I did understand it, it just has a lot of actually completely pointless scenes where it zooms in on a random object and plays horrible humming noises on the soundtrack and crap like that. Basically just an overblown student art film, worth watching once I suppose but definitely not worth all the praise it gets.

 

[hibernal_dream]

give me some time to respond I'm not on this forum the whole day you know, have a lot more work to do ...

actually lost highway isn't that complicated. first of all, the theme is completely based on Faust ...
second of all, same as with poetry, or as with music, the intention is to create a mood, or feeling that goes much deeper than a "normal" emotion would. so when I ask you to explain exactly what you experience when you listen to some of your favourite bands, and to explain me exactly what is going on, than that is no problem for you? than you can give me an exact description that will make perfectly clear to me what the experience is? no you can't, because it's beyond words, that's why we have music and poetry, and certain films (wish there would be more, instead of story-movies), and art ... so besides a main theme (which is faust), it creates an atmosphere and calls up emotions which can put you in to a certain state and make you experience things and can make things clear to you without saying it out loud.

so yes I can answer your questions, but perhaps this means absolute bullshit to you again. and you will say: I only feel boredom when watching it. so that's your right, as it is the right for a lot of people to feel only boredom when listening to opeth or other great bands.
'nough said? because you can't put it all in to words, you must realize that

p.s.: I never said that you have an inferior brain, I just said that you don't seem to get Lynch, which is not an insult. it's just not your thing perhaps ... lots of great art out there, but none of it can speak to everyone, mostly it can't even reach a lot of people, no matter how intelligent or comprehensive they are.

Ah, I think I understand what you're saying. I do enjoy the way it creates suspense and in that way it is good direction from Lynch. I was talking more about the plot. Ok, so you have the beginning with two emotionless characters, and the tape. Girl is killed, man gets arrested. Man somehow changes into another man inside the cell. I'm fine up until there. The rest of the film is an orgy of sex and violence like any other commercial Hollywood film, and you end up with no explanation of the mysteries and questions raised at the beginning. There's no clever twist or clues to resolution of what has happened. Even the actors have a confused look on their face the whole time.

I guess i'm of the belief that films should stand alone - they aren't like music where you can appreciate it without understanding the theory behind it. Films are most about stories, so you need some kind of plot. All I can say from this film at the end is "welll... it's about identity and memories". I can't say what aspects i'm talking about or how the film deals with these themes. Also, it seems it doesn't matter to you whether it's comprehensible or not - it's the 'weird factor' you like.

Eraserhead: I liked it. It had a plot, and you knew what it was about. From what I remember of it I believe the theme was the horrors of working class family life. I found it painful to watch but it sure stuck in your head.

 

[TehLeperAffinity]

It doesn't even sound that close, the dune one sounds like notes 1 2 3 and 7 on harmonic minor and the moor riff goes up a fifth from the first note if i recall correctly (someone could check on the guitar or something, I really don't care enough to try). Sounds a little similar, but you can find similarities like that in all different types of music.

 

[Don Corleone]

Ah, I think I understand what you're saying. I do enjoy the way it creates suspense and in that way it is good direction from Lynch. I was talking more about the plot. Ok, so you have the beginning with two emotionless characters, and the tape. Girl is killed, man gets arrested. Man somehow changes into another man inside the cell. I'm fine up until there. The rest of the film is an orgy of sex and violence like any other commercial Hollywood film, and you end up with no explanation of the mysteries and questions raised at the beginning. There's no clever twist or clues to resolution of what has happened. Even the actors have a confused look on their face the whole time.

I guess i'm of the belief that films should stand alone - they aren't like music where you can appreciate it without understanding the theory behind it. Films are most about stories, so you need some kind of plot. All I can say from this film at the end is "welll... it's about identity and memories". I can't say what aspects i'm talking about or how the film deals with these themes. Also, it seems it doesn't matter to you whether it's comprehensible or not - it's the 'weird factor' you like.

Eraserhead: I liked it. It had a plot, and you knew what it was about. From what I remember of it I believe the theme was the horrors of working class family life. I found it painful to watch but it sure stuck in your head.

hmm lets see: first off, let me add something interesting about eraserhead...lynch once said it's kind of an autobiographical movie. i heard he had an unwanted child back in the day. so there


as for lost highway, yeah basically i found it to be his easiest movie to understand so far. well, maybe besides "wild at heart" which was dead funny at times

lost highway focuses on two topics:

1. the depths of depresion and paranoia a man can go into upon not being able to please his woman
2. something called "psychogenic fugue"...this is what the main character goes through when he turns from fred to pete. it's a psychological phenomenon when a person creates another persona and goes on living with it (different from schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder).

now the movie tends to stray away from giving everything away to the audience...mostly the plot. some of the movie takes place in real life and some in the hero's head and thats up to the viewer's interpretation. thats what i like about it and i guess thats personal taste, right? i like my art to be abstract and full of connotations, symbolism and associations with other works outside the genre.

and some scenes in lynch's movies, i believe, have no relation to the plot at all...but are just like the Rorschach inkblot test where you are shown inkblots in an A3 paper in psychoanalysis and are asked to explain what you see...they create that certain mood of a psychological thriller and are gone. i think this is what wankerness was drawing the attention to with pointless close-ups and scenes.

i always compare lynch's art to kayo dot in music for instance. it'll make sense if you actually do know and listen to the band.

yeah just like black sessions said, not all art is for everyone. this world would be a very dull place if every artist followed the rules and customs of its predecessors. lynch breaks every rule of story-telling, pushes the boundaries and i find it fascinating. he's my fave director along with kubrick, fincher and cronenberg.

 

[Black Session]

totally agree with Don Corleone who puts it much better than I did .. well, I'm not really good at talking about this stuff.

and @Hibernal: that is then a difference in taste/opinion ... that for you movies are about stories. I'm just glad that there are a few people out there who use the medium film in other ways, although I must say that the really "arty" stuff is way beyond me, mostly don't get it and don't like it. but it is fun to see that some people are thinking beyond the boundaries of different media, they don't stick to painting, literature, music, sculpture, theatre, film, ... they used it all together and express stuff that you would normally do in one medium through another one. it's creative and complex, and nice to see that after so many years we can still get innovative and creative stuff.

 

[Mr Samsara]

His adaptation of Dune, however, is rightly considered one of the worst sci-fi movies of the 80s, as well as his worst film. Even HE says he hates it. It's a huge mess, and I really don't see why they assigned the project to him...I guess just cause the Elephant Man had been successful at about the same time they were looking for directors.

Alejandro jodorowsky should have been allowed to proceed with that project.

 

[soundave]

hmm lets see: first off, let me add something interesting about eraserhead...lynch once said it's kind of an autobiographical movie. i heard he had an unwanted child back in the day. so there


as for lost highway, yeah basically i found it to be his easiest movie to understand so far. well, maybe besides "wild at heart" which was dead funny at times

lost highway focuses on two topics:

1. the depths of depresion and paranoia a man can go into upon not being able to please his woman
2. something called "psychogenic fugue"...this is what the main character goes through when he turns from fred to pete. it's a psychological phenomenon when a person creates another persona and goes on living with it (different from schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder).

now the movie tends to stray away from giving everything away to the audience...mostly the plot. some of the movie takes place in real life and some in the hero's head and thats up to the viewer's interpretation. thats what i like about it and i guess thats personal taste, right? i like my art to be abstract and full of connotations, symbolism and associations with other works outside the genre.

and some scenes in lynch's movies, i believe, have no relation to the plot at all...but are just like the Rorschach inkblot test where you are shown inkblots in an A3 paper in psychoanalysis and are asked to explain what you see...they create that certain mood of a psychological thriller and are gone. i think this is what wankerness was drawing the attention to with pointless close-ups and scenes.

i always compare lynch's art to kayo dot in music for instance. it'll make sense if you actually do know and listen to the band.

yeah just like black sessions said, not all art is for everyone. this world would be a very dull place if every artist followed the rules and customs of its predecessors. lynch breaks every rule of story-telling, pushes the boundaries and i find it fascinating. he's my fave director along with kubrick, fincher and cronenberg.

Excellent post, Don. I hadn't thought that deeply about it, but what you say really resonates with me.

 

[FUBAR]

Anyone seen Inland Empire? I found it pretentious as fuck but theres something that draws me to it, It has some suprisingly moving scenes aswell...gotta love Lynch, a true artist.

 

[wankerness]

Alejandro jodorowsky should have been allowed to proceed with that project.

I had no clue he was ever associated with that project, somehow I can't imagine his version would have been any more coherent based on what I've seen of his though (El Topo, Santa Sangre).

 

[Don Corleone]

Anyone seen Inland Empire? I found it pretentious as fuck but theres something that draws me to it, It has some suprisingly moving scenes aswell...gotta love Lynch, a true artist.

waiting for that movie to arrive here

 

[FUBAR]

waiting for that movie to arrive here

Ah right, it'll be worth the wait, its a great headfuck.