The new chat thread - now with bitter arguing

[plintus]

Stop it, you two. No one cares about this In Flames drama, or In Drama flames.

Ah, let Arch have his time and let his frustration out - here. We might just avoid another Virginia Tech.

He is so boring though...

 

[Arch]

You're too easily provoked, Plintus. Don't start shooting up Philly with your violent tendencies and all.

 

[RampageSword]

So, let's see. Perhaps you're thinking about it over and over, trying to find out exactly why it happened, and why it occurs in that manner time after time. And your mind is probably ever-drifting about her, even though you might be having hard feelings right now. Other forms of mournful thinking could also be dwelling in your head.

If that's the case, just stop. It is hard, but sometimes there is no hope, and no chance; or as I'd say: If it was created broken, there's no use trying to fix it.

Now, cheer up, and buy lots of concert tickets and let (good) music be your strength.

Worry not, I have in the past been that kind of person, thinking over and over again but I rid myself of this kind of behaviour some time ago. It was more a right on the spot frustration due to the fact she's totally confused still and hasn't grown up enough to realize that relationships aren't that much of a big deal after all. In short her reaction surprised me alot, I was expecting something more mature judging by her intelligence and what I know of her. I imagine I was wrong.

I was gonna make some comment about maturity level and age and such, but then, you're just one year younger than me, so that's not really helpful. Don't get too discouraged by the whole 'friend' thing. I've had it happen to me once or twice myself, and regardless, I find being a friend is better than being an asshole.

~kov.

Age is not the only number in the equation here. I've had friends three years younger teaching me things about life. Also, the friend thing won't discourage me. I'm well aware that it's the universal female version of "I'm not interested, sorry". They probably think it's less painful to say it that way. For all I know, no is no and if she's not interested in a relationship, heck, just move on. People seem to be so afraid, they give so much importance to that word "relationship" as if it meant lifelong engagement with death or absolute destruction of all things beautiful as the only possible outcome. For my part, I'd rather give it a try and screw up than stand back and go "Shit, I should have..." at age 73.

since we're on the theme of relationship, i'll have you know that i am pushing the boundaries of confusion and absurdity farther than i ever did. go me.

I'm interested, care to explain further?

 

[Taliesin]

Worry not, I have in the past been that kind of person, thinking over and over again but I rid myself of this kind of behaviour some time ago. It was more a right on the spot frustration due to the fact she's totally confused still and hasn't grown up enough to realize that relationships aren't that much of a big deal after all. In short her reaction surprised me alot, I was expecting something more mature judging by her intelligence and what I know of her. I imagine I was wrong.

I know it's very frustrating, but from what I gathered, I would have come to the same conclusion about her. I think looking back, you'll realise how much you were better off without her and how much she would have dragged you down.
You're right about the maturity, too. Ive had a very impressive experience a few years back, when I was in a counterstrike clan. The most mature person was also the youngest, I think he was 15 at the time. Maturity is a feature of character and character doesnt change much with age. Maturity you dont have at age 18 you probably wont have at age 80.

Anyway, you're a nice guy, you'll find your nice girl, too. In the end we all do

 

[RampageSword]

I know it's very frustrating, but from what I gathered, I would have come to the same conclusion about her. I think looking back, you'll realise how much you were better off without her and how much she would have dragged you down.

Frankly, I don't agree with that kind of reaction. The whole "I'm better off without.." I find is somewhat of a way of pushing away the person with anger or disdain. I feel it's like trying to hide the fact that it hurts by drowning it with hatred. I don't put myself on a pedestal, looking down at all these women who don't know what they're missing. If they don't want to give it a try or if I'm not their type well, they only have to tell me so and I'll swallow the pill, turn around and wait for someone else to tickle my heart (these last three words in combination sound really gay). I'll definitely keep seeing my friend. I don't think everything is ruined because we won't have a relation, things will simply go on as they did since we met.

You're right about the maturity, too. Ive had a very impressive experience a few years back, when I was in a counterstrike clan. The most mature person was also the youngest, I think he was 15 at the time. Maturity is a feature of character and character doesnt change much with age. Maturity you dont have at age 18 you probably wont have at age 80.

Absolutely. At age 16 it was easier for me to make friends with my high school teachers than with the other kids, which I generally found utterly stupid and immature.

Anyway, you're a nice guy, you'll find your nice girl, too. In the end we all do

Oh I just might. Speaking of which, in two months I'm going to Greece and I'll meet our forum's very own goddess of feminity, Siren. *nudge*nudge*

 

[afz902k]

Hmm DT forum's goddess of feminity, that could be our next contest.

 

[RampageSword]

If Matse wins that one, I'll be the one cutting myself.

However it could indeed be an interesting contest but let's wait for the newbie one to finish. One at a time, fellas. Otherwise, confusion will start brooding in the forum.

 

[GONE Ridin' Hood]

^ Maybe you'll end up with her hehe .

Anyway, you're a nice lad Mart, and I also hate the "lets just be friends shit." Gott did I hear that for more than 12 years or what? . I hate those kind of excuses because for me it's like "I just toyed with ye and now I have someone I like more. Bye!" *gets dumped* "Oh thank gott ye're here, I think that I really love ye bu bu bu."

That happens a lot IMO, a girl with low self-esteem goes out with you, and when she feels better she dumps you because she thinks she can have any guy she wants .

Anyway, if ye need any advise related to realtions, don't hesitate to PM Mart (or anyone, I'm actually pretty good at this hehe).

 

[afz902k]

Well you certainly sound like some grand pee eye ehm pee...

 

[Taliesin]

Frankly, I don't agree with that kind of reaction. The whole "I'm better off without.." I find is somewhat of a way of pushing away the person with anger or disdain. I feel it's like trying to hide the fact that it hurts by drowning it with hatred. I don't put myself on a pedestal, looking down at all these women who don't know what they're missing. If they don't want to give it a try or if I'm not their type well, they only have to tell me so and I'll swallow the pill, turn around and wait for someone else to tickle my heart (these last three words in combination sound really gay). I'll definitely keep seeing my friend. I don't think everything is ruined because we won't have a relation, things will simply go on as they did since we met.

Well, dont you have enough reason to be angry? She let you hang there for what, almost a year, without realising/caring that you wanted more from her and she took all that time for her half-assed decision anyway. I think it's pretty selfish of her part. What I meant by "You're better off without her" was the kind of relationship you could have hoped to have with her after one year of such "foreplay". After all this time, I think it would have been very difficult to say "Now the time of uncertainty is over, now we're a couple and we're 100% certain and behind it." you see, so I think every relationship afterwards would have been full of second-guessing each other and doomed to end in quite a mess.

 

[hyena]

I'm interested, care to explain further?

Thak you for your interest.

The very short version is that I'm getting involved with someone who looks every bit my soulmate (sometimes in such an evident fashion that it becomes nearly grotesque), but he is not available. Sort of. He has been married for seven years, but his marriage was - for no medically understandable reason - childless, his wife and he have been living like brother and sister for years, and she is depressed while he recovered from his own depression and is now feeling well.

Nothing of the unseemly variety happened between us, since we are both quite unwilling to do wrong based on momentary impulse, but there are a lot of feelings on both sides and a while ago he introduced the topic of a possible future where he is with me rather than with his present wife.

The point is that the idea of divorce and remarriage is against more or less all my principles; he's not too keen on the violation of the sacramental bond either. So basically there has to be a lot of soul-searching and a lot of deliberating (more or less about nothing, so far) so as to understand what we should do about this whole mess.

I do not know his wife, yet I don't want to end up with her blood on my hands. Still, his marriage was bad before meeting me, so it is very difficult to say where my area of responsibility begins. It's not like I lured him into an affair; first, we don't have an affair, and second, I wouldn't have tried to lure him and he would not have accepted.

This situation has gone on since January, and sometimes I have the clarity of vision to tell myself that no matter the affinities, the coincidences, and the enormous amount of kindness and attention that has been produced over the course of the past five months I've just got to go (and now Agnostic Front are ringing through my head eventhough I'm listening to Manowar). On the other, I don't want to hurt him by pulling the disappearing act, and I cannot really imagine myself without him by now, without waking up to reading his emails or hearing his voice on the phone.

Incidentally, I am now realizing that this latter argument makes no sense - I didn't crumble upon people dying on me, so I am as tried and tested in the matter of severances. In other words, the fact that I would miss him does not really constitute a base for any decision.

Let's just say that I am not entirely convinced that I should not consider the possibility. And it's maddening how this goes from looking like something awful to looking like the only possible course of action in the span of ten minutes, several times per day.

Unfortunately, we live in different countries, so we have seen each other only a few times up to now. I'm meeting him again in eight days and there is a small voice in my head (rahvin, don't lump me in with people who hear tiny voices, please ) telling me that next friday has to be reckoning day, we have to say goodbye. but the expected level of consistency re this resolution hovers between zero and zero.

Anyway, to sum everything up: the choice is basically between having a future and then going to hell, and avoiding hell for the time being yet finding myself again having to struggle for a future. The second option is the most probable bet, no matter how much metal I listen to I do not fancy hell. But until it is not completely clear to me at all levels that there is no possibility of keeping the future and avoiding hell, I will wrestle with decisions. These are the times when being a Gryffindor, wretched creatures that they are, could help.

 

[Lady Sunshine]

Other than my current relationship, I've had no other experience other than rejection, and looking back on it now it seems so trivial. Back in early high school it seems that I liked anyone and everyone (of the opposite sex). Was that hormones or was it just me? Haha.

So in short, I guess I'm posting this in saying "I sympathize with your problems, but I'm not in the position to give my advice".

 

[Child of Time]

hyena: That's quite a dilemma you have there. I always imagined that faith always would be comfort and support, but I guess that is a way too simplified picture of it.

If I would be of the church-going kind, I think I wouldn't have any problems with the "sins" of divorcing and marrying again, as I probably would suppose that I would go to hell anyway. But that might be because I'm raised in a lutheran country, I don't know if there are differences in the view on original sin between protestantism and catholisicm. The impression I've got of the older doctrine of the church here is that no matter what you do, you're a wretched sinner and condemned to burn.

Lady Sunshine: Don't worry, that would be teh hormones.

 

[stardrowned]

Yes, In Flames suck. You hear that, Plintus? In Flames suck, so ditch your stupid website already.

Well, the website isn't that special. No discographies, band members, biography and such, needs a lot of work. Yes, In Flames do suck big time now, but they were awesome Clayman and before, or maybe Colony and before.

 

[stardrowned]

@hyena: That's one complicated story!

 

[RampageSword]

@hyena: I just read everything and I do want to share some thoughts. I will do so probably this evening, I'm already late for work at the moment.

 

[afz902k]

@hyena: Well, there is indeed a "thou shalt not want another person's partner" (or something like that) commandment.

But if He leaves her, taking the decision on his own, and for his own reasons (You might be one of the reasons, but not the only reason), I don't think you are necessarily sinning, maybe it would be for the best to ask a priest (I would be more comfortable with one that I've never seen before and that I'm unlikely to see again, probably at a far-away church).

 

[GONE Ridin' Hood]

Claudia: My best advice is that you should basically talk with the guy. But don't be a coward and tell him everything you just said to us , at least in other words . I'm pretty sure you really like this guy, to say that you;re in love with him.

BUT, you don't want to look like a slut do you? If something is meant to happen between the 2 of you, it should come from his part, because if you do something with him then you'll feel really guilty later, which may cause the failure of the relationship if it were between the two of you.

So as I said, tlak it out with the guy, face to face. I think you shouldn't pressure him to leave his marriage, that'd be a horrible thing to do.And even though telling him how you feel will definetly be a pressure on him, it;d be better than not doing anything and regretting it later.

 

[plintus]

Well, the website isn't that special. No discographies, band members, biography and such, needs a lot of work. Yes, In Flames do suck big time now, but they were awesome Clayman and before, or maybe Colony and before.

The site had everything (it's 3 y/o and was way better than, say, Pampers' one).

But.

I had to take it down. For two reasons, one of which was - they were getting so big here, that every one wanted a piece of them, and I didn't feel like feeding on their fame. They had all the promotion they needed or wanted, another website? Please... generic shit retyping news from the official page?

With all exclusive stuff I had, still, it wasn't enough. But I met quite a few nice people through having it, for example Claudine who made these illustrations:

It was fucking special. Well, it'll come back some day.

 

[Kovenant84]

@Hyena: I'm reluctant to give advice on this - while you've proclaimed me one of the few who makes sense with regards to relationships, my early post history still makes me cringe.

However, I have a feeling you've already made your decision, at least in your subconscious. I think to a certain extent, you do not like the gray area associated with your impact on his current relationship, and while you tend to pride yourself occasionally (perhaps sarcastically) on your ability to rationalize things, I still feel that you won't be able to shake the feeling that you in some way led to the dissolution of his marriage, if in fact things go that way. It may very well not be true at all - as you've said, he had problems before you ever met him - but I don't know that you'll be able to dodge the spectre of that idea, especially given the moral implications.

That being said, I'm not trying to scare you. I just know that, being the constant doubter that I am, I would probably feel exactly that way. Would I get over it? Most likely, but then that's because I have an uncanny ability to cut myself off from the things I don't want to think about. I think it has something to do with the Irish heritage. ("I'm Irish. I can live with something being wrong forever.")

I think another thing to consider (and perhaps you already have) is the distance aspect. From experience, it sucks. Would one of you move? Do the distance thing for awhile?

In spite of my negativity here, I do think that at the very least you've found a very good friend. I know the danger in there is that it seems both of you want more than that. Would you still be friends if the decision was made to permanently cut off the avenue of 'more than friends' between the two of you? I think Danny has a good point, in that these things need to be discussed - for heaven's sake, not in a 'Are you going to leave her?' type speech, though I think you knew that - at least just to get his thoughts on the matter. But unless he knows about the ultimatum ahead of time, I don't think it's a good idea to just spring it on him, without giving him time to think about it either - not to say that you shouldn't see what his instinctual responses are, but I don't think that's the point of this.

~kov.