The Place to bitch about music I like that you don't

[Omni]

Explain why Iommi and Butler, the main people behind musical direction and style in the band, have no issue with Black Sabbath being called heavy metal and both have accepted Sabbath being labelled as such in numerous interviews. Ozzy Osbourne isn't the de facto voice of Black Sabbath and he never has been.

You're talking about the same singer who claimed that people only care about Black Sabbath because of him and that nobody likes any of their music that he doesn't appear on as the basis of a lawsuit against Tony Iommi a few years ago. Last time that I checked, Ronnie James Dio appears on multiple critically and commercially successful Black Sabbath albums.

 

[EternalMetal]

Explain why Iommi and Butler, the main people behind musical direction and style in the band, have no issue with Black Sabbath being called heavy metal and both have accepted Sabbath being labelled as such in numerous interviews. Ozzy Osbourne isn't the de facto voice of Black Sabbath and he never has been.

I dont care what Iommi or Butler think. I used Ozzy as an example as someone who was critical of a genre label that had been established over 30 years ago. I never said he was the "de facto voice of Black Sabbath". If I said "Black Sabbath dont endorse the 'heavy metal' label" then maybe id have something to defend against. Otherwise, im not taking your bait.

You're talking about the same singer who claimed that people only care about Black Sabbath because of him and that nobody likes any of their music that he doesn't appear on as the basis of a lawsuit against Tony Iommi a few years ago. Last time that I checked, Ronnie James Dio appears on multiple critically and commercially successful Black Sabbath albums.

Now you are arguing that the Dio albums even remotely share mainstream popularity and album sales on par with Ozzy-era Sabbath? Im not going to take a side in that lawsuit, but the guy had a point.

 

[Mort Divine]

Heaven And Hell sold more than any BS album outside of the first three so...its not entirely unreasonable to call bullshit on that statement.

 

[Omni]

Ozzy Osbourne's original lawsuit claimed that he was an equal owner of the band with Tony Iommi and had contributed as much to the band's music as Iommi himself. So yeah, I'm saying that his lawsuit and claims of importance are delusions considering that he barely contributed to the songwriting process and he wasn't even the main writer behind the words that he sung.

His self-importance is pretty known to anyone who follows his career. He went out of his way to try to slander Black Sabbath while he wasn't in the band during the 1980s because he felt that he was wronged by them continuing without him, even though he claimed for years that he quit voluntarily and wasn't fired.

He routinely says incendiary or controversial things to the media and has been doing so since the 1980s or before. Also, a simple search of interviews around OzzFest or discussing the state of metal will find him quite comfortably using the term "heavy metal" to describe his music or the music that was at his festival.


This is one of his most famous quotes ever, regarding his career longevity and criticism from people who say he's out of touch and should retire:



You'll notice that he has no trouble using "metal" in context to himself and his career. His "existential crisis" about being a metal musician is a new development designed specifically for headlines. He's never complained about it until the last few years.

 

[EternalMetal]

Heaven And Hell sold more than any BS album outside of the first three so...its not entirely unreasonable to call bullshit on that statement.

So at the very worst it is Ozzy with 3 higher selling albums than Dio, and in reality a lot of those other albums were close to the sales of H+H. And after H+H, Sabbath's album sales dropped off rather dramatically. I would love to see exact figures of album sales, but I wouldnt think it would be an exaggeration to estimate that Ozzy has Dio beat 10 to 1. Paranoid sales alone are spectacular.

 

[Trodden]

 

[CiG]

Whether Black Sabbath is heavy metal or not is a boring enough debate without using what the band members say as some sort of truth compass. Fuck off.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Just found this band called Sungate, instrumental power metal sorta but with keys in more of a kinda flowery folky dungeonsynth-minus-the-dungeons kind of way.

 

[Trodden]

When Sabbath was 'new' they were the heaviest sounding band around (and yes, thats a matter of perspective. I dont care if Blue Cheer or whoever played loud. Sabbath didnt play loud, they wrote "heavy" sounding music)

but of course they dont sound heavy compared to Slayer, Aeon, or modern day Metal. Saying Sabbath isnt Metal shows you have a skewed perception of Metal

 

[Trodden]

Just found this band called Sungate, instrumental power metal sorta but with keys in more of a kinda flowery folky dungeonsynth-minus-the-dungeons kind of way.

Good shit. Sounds like Amon Amarth trying to sound like Gordian Knot

and if you dont know them

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Arpia, super kvlt Italian metal, somewhere between doom metal and eerie Devil Doll-esque rock. For 1987 this shit is without comparison:

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah I know Gordian Knot, not really a fan though, too much boring fusion stuff.

 

[CiG]

but of course they dont sound heavy compared to Slayer, Aeon, or modern day Metal.

Compared with those bands I think Black Sabbath sound even heavier.

 

[Trodden]

Yeah I know Gordian Knot, not really a fan though, too much boring fusion stuff.

I dont care for all of his stuff, I just like that song 'reflections'.

Compared with those bands I think Black Sabbath sound even heavier.

think so? In some ways I agree. Tony's solo's are a million times heaver than any Slayer solo. It all depends on what Im in the mood for

something fierce and fast, Id go with Slayer. If I want quality songwriting, Sabbath by far

 

[suckerleaf]

Endless Fuckery.

I'm pretty sure it's not a band but it should be.

 

[Trodden]

 

[EspaDa]

Oh, this is the famous thread that made Omni leave.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Oh, this is the famous thread that made Omni leave.

No it's not.

 

[Trodden]

 

[Mort Divine]

how is shitty death metal uncategorizable