The problem with Tool

[AceRoccola]

I may be late, but agree with the first post. I don't see how anyone can actually call Tool genious...sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion but..it still makes me wanna hit someone with a shovel..

 

[AceRoccola]

Of course, we can just settle this quite easily:

Tastes in music are entirely subjective. It's just like viewing art. However, there are some things that can be judged across the board, and in this case it's technical talent.

In terms of technical talent, Tool rates very high up on my list. Whoever said that they could replicate anything that Danny Carey could play.... here's my challenge, go listen to Eulogy and try and replicate the section where it's just drums and vocals... that's 4/4 with hi-hat opened every 3, making for a shifting pattern. Takes quite a lot of practice, let me assure you. Then you can go and play Ticks and Leeches.

As for the rest of the band, people seem to forget that in some cases less is more. This applies mainly to Tool's guitarist, who in my opinion is musically blessed, even if he isn't a very technical player. The bassist is also a much more subtle bassist... if you listen his part is mainly laying a very solid foundation for the rest of the band. Tool is very much a collective effort, not 4 guys who can play really well deciding to try and patch something together.

I think that too many people hate on Tool simply because they're sick of those "hardcore" Tool fans who are intent on cramming Tool down people's throats. What they forget is that many of those fans are just like pop fans - Tool is the new "underground" trend to make you look as if you actually know something about music, despite the fact that many of those "hardcore" fans wouldn't recognise a 7/4 rhythm if it hit them in the face. They're just in the process of hopping bandwagons, we're hoping they'll be gone by the next album.

Probably not the best way for me to start on this forum but..it does seem like you are constradicting the hell out of yourself with the technical comment. You say that they rank very high on your list as far as technical talent, then say that the guitarist does not in fact have much technical ability..and that the bassist is also very 'subtle'.

I'm not saying that Danney Carry isn't good, but because the drummer is quite skilled, it doesn't necessarily make the rest of them good.

I agree a LOT with what you said about people hating tool because others constantly shoving down our throats. Thats basically my problem wiht them, people always saying they're absolute geniuses and then i listen to them and it doesn't come close to other stuff like Opeth or others..

'Tool is the new "underground" trend to make you look as if you actually know something about music' - another big reason why i don't like Tool.

Yes, in the end its alll about your opinion, and I for one can't stand Tool's music, image, lyrics, and any other aspect of the band..but hey, if it amkes you happy then more power to you.

 

[AceRoccola]

Most ignorant thing i've ever read in my life, seriously at least know something about a band before trying to make "logical" opinions on them. Tool will kick your fucking ass and I think they're the greatest band out there right now. If you can find anyone who sings like Maynard or plays drums better than Danny Carey i'll be shocked. Fuck you buddy! :hotjump:

Are you serious? Do you have any idea what you just said?

Well first of all their are a lot of people i would rather hear singing then Maynard Keenan, i don't know how you would judge who's a better singer. Unless you go on range or ability to hold one note for 12 minutes or something..

And better drummers then Danny Carrey? I won't say he isn't good, but theres a lot of guys who i'd say were better. If you want speed then Jason Bittner can certainly out-drum him, if you are concerned with the sound of the drums then i prefer Joey Jordison, John Bonham, or Dave Grohl (and probably Bittner as well) among others. If you're saying that just because you like Tool, then i guess you've got me, because he's the only drummer i can think of thats in Tool

Anyway both of these are more or less based on opinion so think what you want, but saying that they are the best vocalist and drummer is a pretty stupid thing to say..

 

[Scourge of Malice]

"And no, Tool is not a progressive band,"

give me one good reason as to how they're not progressive

 

[Aecliptica]

Are you serious? Do you have any idea what you just said?

Well first of all their are a lot of people i would rather hear singing then Maynard Keenan, i don't know how you would judge who's a better singer. Unless you go on range or ability to hold one note for 12 minutes or something..

And better drummers then Danny Carrey? I won't say he isn't good, but theres a lot of guys who i'd say were better. If you want speed then Jason Bittner can certainly out-drum him, if you are concerned with the sound of the drums then i prefer Joey Jordison, John Bonham, or Dave Grohl (and probably Bittner as well) among others. If you're saying that just because you like Tool, then i guess you've got me, because he's the only drummer i can think of thats in Tool

Anyway both of these are more or less based on opinion so think what you want, but saying that they are the best vocalist and drummer is a pretty stupid thing to say..

maynard does have one of the godliest vocals

 

[AceRoccola]

maynard does have one of the godliest vocals

Again, nothing but pure personal preference. There are people who think Bob Dylan is an amazing singer, i on the other hand have never considered him to be much of a vocalist, don't care much for his music either. But there are people who would argue me to death on that. And that is what I'm talking about, its pointless for us to argue about that type of stuff.

 

[Speak]

Probably not the best way for me to start on this forum but..it does seem like you are constradicting the hell out of yourself with the technical comment. You say that they rank very high on your list as far as technical talent, then say that the guitarist does not in fact have much technical ability..and that the bassist is also very 'subtle'.

I'm not saying that Danney Carry isn't good, but because the drummer is quite skilled, it doesn't necessarily make the rest of them good.

I agree a LOT with what you said about people hating tool because others constantly shoving down our throats. Thats basically my problem wiht them, people always saying they're absolute geniuses and then i listen to them and it doesn't come close to other stuff like Opeth or others..

'Tool is the new "underground" trend to make you look as if you actually know something about music' - another big reason why i don't like Tool.

Yes, in the end its alll about your opinion, and I for one can't stand Tool's music, image, lyrics, and any other aspect of the band..but hey, if it amkes you happy then more power to you.

Well, people always assume that technical means quick and complex. If you listen carefully, both the guitar and bass parts are very carefully crafted. There is very little sloppy playing, and if you want to analyse the music from a harmonic and structural perspective, I think that you'll find that Tool is not only progressive, but technical. Of course, my definition of technical could be very differend from yours. And that's where we get back to the point that everything here is completely subjective. However, we can all continue to express opinions, as long as we're all aware that these are only opinions.

 

[Speak]

And better drummers then Danny Carrey? I won't say he isn't good, but theres a lot of guys who i'd say were better. If you want speed then Jason Bittner can certainly out-drum him, if you are concerned with the sound of the drums then i prefer Joey Jordison, John Bonham, or Dave Grohl (and probably Bittner as well) among others. If you're saying that just because you like Tool, then i guess you've got me, because he's the only drummer i can think of thats in Tool

I'm sorry, but this post seriously makes me question your understanding of drums. John Bonham might questionably belong on that list, but Joey Jordison and Dave Grohl...... umm, this is entirely opinion, but they are not good drummers. They're just famous drummers. As for judging Danny by speed... do you understand the concept of a polyrhythm? Because if you don't, I don't think that you're really basing your opinions on any solid fact. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but still... would this imply that you're a Slipknot fan?

 

[Static]

Danny Carey is subtle as hell and plays rhythms most drummer would get wet dreams over coming up with.

If you want insane speed...listen to Hellhammer's drumming...if you want subtlety and intricacies...then Danny Carey is the way to go.

 

[Iblys]

LuminousAether
What the fuck. That bit with the noise and the naked people was not an hour long. It was less than ten minutes long. And it wasn't just naked people, it was fucking contortionists who could tie themselves up into knots. That was special.

What the fuck. Way to misrepresent.

 

[Dev]

Danny Carey is subtle as hell and plays rhythms most drummer would get wet dreams over coming up with.

If you want insane speed...listen to Hellhammer's drumming...if you want subtlety and intricacies...then Danny Carey is the way to go.

Hellhammer is not only fast

 

[Schism]

LuminousAether
What the fuck. That bit with the noise and the naked people was not an hour long. It was less than ten minutes long. And it wasn't just naked people, it was fucking contortionists who could tie themselves up into knots. That was special.

What the fuck. Way to misrepresent.

LuminousAether IS a TOOL!!!!!!!
He hates everything that everyone else likes just to be different.

 

[Immortality]

Danny Carey is subtle as hell and plays rhythms most drummer would get wet dreams over coming up with.

If you want insane speed...listen to Hellhammer's drumming...if you want subtlety and intricacies...then Danny Carey is the way to go.

Carey is my favorite drummer but Hellhammer is MUCH more than just speed. Arcturus and Winds are proof of this.

 

[AceRoccola]

I'm sorry, but this post seriously makes me question your understanding of drums. John Bonham might questionably belong on that list, but Joey Jordison and Dave Grohl...... umm, this is entirely opinion, but they are not good drummers. They're just famous drummers. As for judging Danny by speed... do you understand the concept of a polyrhythm? Because if you don't, I don't think that you're really basing your opinions on any solid fact. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but still... would this imply that you're a Slipknot fan?

Ok first of all i said I LIKED THE DRUM SOUND they had, i never said they were better than he is, though i prefer them anyway. And don't even try to tell me Jason Bittner isn't freakin amazing. And no i'm not a slipknot fan..

edit: btw, could you explain why exactly grohl and jordison suck?

 

[Fortunesmith]

If we really must rate drummers...Carey is good. Billy Cobham and Neil Peart are better. And, I would dare say, Sean Reinert is better than Carey as well. But, in the end, it's just the songs you like to listen to the best.

 

[Divine_intent]

Why do you bring Cryptopsy into this u stupid fucking poser fag?
When i see your post im damn ashamed of being a cryptopsy fan.
Yes i know you are like 14 years old and you got your first cryptopsy mp'3 and going like WOW Im into so brutal music i must post this on all forums so people think im extreme.
Now i asume you live in America like the rest of the young fan wannabe fags so just get a gun and kill your self and do the rest of the world a great favor.

 

[narcisco]

Are Tool progressive? I think the question is what does progressive mean in a musical sense. Tool use odd time signatures at length. The structure of their riffing style is cyclical with clever alterations that are subtle and that noone but a musician aware of odd time signatures would really care about that much. However the extensive use of non 4/4 time adds up and creates the Tool feel. Of course many bands have broken out of common time. The prog rock scene is littered with clever bands using odd time. Zepp, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, fusion music from the 70's to the present-just check out Brufords output with Jeff Berlin and Holdsworth-, Rush, Dream Theater etc, etc etc. Hey why not mention Sufocation or Nile or any respectable Death Metal band.
Opeth indulge themselves at times as well.
With Tool I guess its the extensive use of odd time with their carefully constructed intellectual image that has inspired their reasonably impressive sales. Plus no growls, detached humour, bizzare video imagery and you have Tool the corporate prog rock/alternative/metal entity waiting to fill the consumer void. Good luck to them, I wish I had thought of it.

 

[Iblys]

Tool are not a corporate entity. Try again once you actually know something about the band.

 

[LuminousAether]

LuminousAether IS a TOOL!!!!!!!
He hates everything that everyone else likes just to be different.

Bwahaha... you are the Tool.

If what you said was true, why would I like Interpol, Radiohead, The Flaming Lips, Katatonia, Anathema, My Dying Bride, and countless other fairly popular bands?

 

[LuminousAether]

LuminousAether
What the fuck. That bit with the noise and the naked people was not an hour long. It was less than ten minutes long. And it wasn't just naked people, it was fucking contortionists who could tie themselves up into knots. That was special.

What the fuck. Way to misrepresent.

Were you at the Columbus Ohio show? If so, and you thought it was under an hour, you were on drugs. I timed it, and it took over an hour of the over two hour concert, so basically nearly half of the show was made up of repeating noises, looped videos of a minotaur in a bathroom, and naked people hanging from ropes. Worst time of my life. It wasn't special, it was a waste of time. I payed $50 to hear music, not a repeated noise.