The Sytematic Mixing Guid - Chapter Bass

[burn4ever]

Hey,
I have a copy of The Sytematic Mixing Guid and I like it a lot
http://www.systematicproductions.com/mixing-guide.htm

But I´m a little bit confused about the Bass Guitare Chapter.

When it goes to the two "Approaches" for example the "Surgical Approach" are the process for the Bass-Buss or for every single track (the 3 tracks mentioned the chapter above)?

 

[Daybreak]

I'm sure he means the bass bus.

Though you should probably have sent a message directly to Ermz, I don't think he likes you giving away any details on the book.

And btw, I got this book though. It kicks ass. Everyone should buy it.

 

[Line666]

Bit of a moot point because most of this knowledge is well documented on this forum as everybody uses this method (it's been a dedicated sneapster approach long before Ermin wrote about it - Ola even has videos on how to do it) but if you look back earlier in the chapter you'll see that he says:

"Filtering bass
It’s widely accepted that the most versatile approach to processing bass begins with filtering it into at least two separate components."

Basically splitting the bass up into low/high/distortion tracks and applying different processing to each using the overall EQ principals he describes in the other chapter. You can use Buss EQ/Comp too but that will be mostly for smoothing/gelling out the overall sound.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

I'm sure he means the bass bus.

Though you should probably have sent a message directly to Ermz, I don't think he likes you giving away any details on the book.

And btw, I got this book though. It kicks ass. Everyone should buy it.

He's posted about half of two different chapters from it on this forum, including a tutorial on bass mixing.

Read this thread for reference: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/f-o-h/863389-bass-processing-tutorial-systematic-style.html

 

[Ermz]

If I'm reading the question correctly, the answer is that I'm advocating doing the bulk of the processing on the overall bass bus, once all those 2/3/4 or whatever tracks are summed together.

Slight corrective EQ, filtering, and compression (especially on the clean DI/low-end portion of your bass tone) is cool, but the bulk of the processing in the approaches I detailed deal with processing the overall tone.

There are no hard and fast rules though. If you get better results doing all your processing on the component tracks, then by all means go for it.

 

[Klosure]

If I'm reading the question correctly, the answer is that I'm advocating doing the bulk of the processing on the overall bass bus, once all those 2/3/4 or whatever tracks are summed together.

Slight corrective EQ, filtering, and compression (especially on the clean DI/low-end portion of your bass tone) is cool, but the bulk of the processing in the approaches I detailed deal with processing the overall tone.

There are no hard and fast rules though. If you get better results doing all your processing on the component tracks, then by all means go for it.

Yes I would also say that the way I have been mentored (by a trustworthy genious) all the processing is done on separate tracks. In fact The DI is first compressed then bussed to 2 tracks which are then treated as high and low.

Key tip: High pass the high string sound first before pushing into something like sansamp plugin (at about 200hz). Why - because this is how a guitar distortion pedal would work with a filter built in, gets rid of low end farting from the distortion unit.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Yes I would also say that the way I have been mentored (by a trustworthy genious) all the processing is done on separate tracks. In fact The DI is first compressed then bussed to 2 tracks which are then treated as high and low.

Key tip: High pass the high string sound first before pushing into something like sansamp plugin (at about 200hz). Why - because this is how a guitar distortion pedal would work with a filter built in, gets rid of low end farting from the distortion unit.

I always do this on any of the 'grind' bass tracks I'm reamping. I usually roll of anywhere between 150hz - 250hz depending on the bass/ taste

 

[Ermz]

I used to do that, but found I got better tones reamping the full range signal, then filtering it down later.

 

[egan.]

I actually really like what happens when you send the low end through distortion too. It seems like you get harmonics of the note and not just harmonics of the harmonics if that makes sense. To me the result is a more defined midrange. YMMV.

 

[Vicioushead]

I'd love to know more about why you would double up on compressors on a bass track. What would the benefit be? I can never ever get the bass to sound good on anything I record. It was always has massive peaks that compression can't contain.

 

[GearMan2point0]

Eq before compression. A bad bass tone is a bad bass tone. You can't turn poop into gold. Also multiband compressor is great for smoothing out bad frequencies

 

[agentmetal]

@Vicioushead : when compressing bass, you will often use very fast attack and release and shoot for lots of gain reduction (10-15 dB or more aren't uncommon). If you're doing this with just one single compressor, chances are that the extreme fast gain changes will distort your signal big time, counteracting your EQ because of harmonic distortion and, in extreme cases, resulting in audible farts in your low end. Using two or more compressors and distributing the workload, that is the total gain reduction, between them will usually attenuate this issue and result in a cleaner low end. In addition, you can use different kinds of compressors (ie. 1176-like, optical or VCA) to combine their flavors.

And if you're having lots of massive peaks in your bass track, then the problem comes from the source material, not the processing. First have the bass player play with a consistent volume, and then ride the volume in order to reduce inconsistencies even before you start mixing. This will make your job much easier...

 

[bryan_kilco]

Yup. I find 2 compressors and also a limiter on the bass bus really helps keep it solid and consistent. Meter doesn't move when bass is playing.

 

[Vicioushead]

Thanks for that reply!

I always assumed you had to play hard and really go for it.

This short clip will give you an example of what I am talking about.



Now, I haven't started on this but you can hear the bass part on the pedal notes is much louder. I guess I am playing it like a guitar player

So you would say to ease off and even everything out starting with pick attack?

 

[ArthurD]

I used to do that, but found I got better tones reamping the full range signal, then filtering it down later.

Do you reamp the signals through an amp or sansamp?
I'm always afraid to harm my guitar cabs with full range bass track...

 

[Ermz]

Generally a PSA-1 or various pedals straight into the system, but now that I have a studio available to me I'm going to start pushing it out through bass cabs and mic'ing up.

PS. Regarding the whole 'meter doesn't move when the bass is playing' thing is just bad practice IMO. Even the most compressed 'pro' record bass tones you hear have some play with the transients. That's your definition. You can compress without stifling the punch of the track. The L1s I have on my bass track are barely doing anything. I might have written something to the contrary in the mixing guide... and if that's the case, it's something I'll look to amend in the coming update. There are a few little tweaks I'd like to give to that document before the printed copy is released. Over the last year I've been refining my methodology a lot, and found that in general I'm doing less compression due to smarter procedures.

Another would be elucidating more on the linear-phase thing. While it tends to work great for me as far as bass processing goes, the pre-ringing appears to bother other people. I personally like the phase coherence, as it appears to give me a more solid low-end, but others prefer to stick to the minimum phase EQs. It's all valid.

 

[agentmetal]

@Vicioushead : I'd say this is workable, although I can't distinguish every bass note since it's quite low in the mix. Just ride the volume prior to mixing, it should definitely help !

I usually don't go for a fully flat performance when recording bass. Having a bit of emphasis (I mean just a bit !) here and there can be helpful, if it gels well with the drums : it can drive your distorted track harder and make it "breathe", and the volume riding will help your low end to stay in place. Just don't overdo it !

@Ermz : that's interesting, I'm definitely looking forward to reading this. I also ended up with quite low amounts of compression on the project I'm currently working on, and yet the bass doesn't seem all over the place. Staging your processing intelligently really seems to be the key ingredient with bass...

 

[Vicioushead]

Thanks again. I definitely find it to be one of the hardest things to capture correctly.

Another noob question. Does it matter how loud it is when you capture it?

 

[Ermz]

No, so long as you've gain staged correctly and the signal to noise and THD are fine.

 

[Vicioushead]

God damn. I have so many questions but I'm embarrassed to ask.