The Thread Where You Talk About Music You Like

[Dazed and Brutal]

Bathory>Venom, but both bands hold their own very well.

Bathory always seemed more real to me, meaning the music is more genuine. "Black Metal", "At War With Satan" are still classics.

 

[Life Sucks]

Of course Bathory is far superior to Venom. I don't think there is anyone that would disagree with that.

 

[Gory Elephant]

I've discovered a new love for Venom and early Bathory, two bands I originally had no interest in.

I have tried and tried to give Venom a fair shot, but they are fucking terrible. I COMPLETELY do not understand it when anybody in black metal claims them as an influence (or, perhaps "claimed" is better, since I doubt anyone claims to be influenced by them in the past 15 years or so). The music is as about as far from black metal as I can imagine.

Bathory, however, is a totally different story. The first three albums are works of absolute genius. Under The Sign Of The Black Mark was, in my opinion, THE defining moment in black metal. Vicious, nasty, and nothing even remotely resembling an attempt to appeal to the pop masses (UNLIKE Venom).

mike

 

[swizzlenuts]

I have tried and tried to give Venom a fair shot, but they are fucking terrible. I COMPLETELY do not understand it when anybody in black metal claims them as an influence (or, perhaps "claimed" is better, since I doubt anyone claims to be influenced by them in the past 15 years or so). The music is as about as far from black metal as I can imagine.

Bathory, however, is a totally different story. The first three albums are works of absolute genius. Under The Sign Of The Black Mark was, in my opinion, THE defining moment in black metal. Vicious, nasty, and nothing even remotely resembling an attempt to appeal to the pop masses (UNLIKE Venom).

mike

The reason Venom is considered black metal is mainly their lyrical themes, their music is not black metal at all, and it's the same reason why Mercyful Fate can be considered Black Metal.

 

[metal_wrath]

Plus their song Black Metal was a major influence and obligatory cover song for many black metal bands to come

 

[cookiecutter]

And they invented the name Black Metal and helped pioneer the pseudonym thing.

 

[Hammer of Might]

The music is as about as far from black metal as I can imagine.

How on Earth can you claim this? This is too baffling for words, as is the suggestion that Venom were appealing to the "pop masses".

The reason Venom is considered black metal is mainly their lyrical themes, their music is not black metal at all, and it's the same reason why Mercyful Fate can be considered Black Metal.

This is not true at all.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

This is NOT the fucking place to argue over the seminal shit that formed black metal. But, by current definitions looking in retrospect, not many of the first wave bands could still be considered BM. They belong in other genres now.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

All first wave black metal bands can be placed more logically under other genres with the exception of Bathory (but even a lot of their stuff sounds more thrash than black metal) but there's no denying their influence on what we've come to know as black metal.

 

[Mort Divine]

Freak Kitchen - Speak When Spoken To's main riff is a total rip off of the recurring riff in Witchfinder General's Death Penalty.

Fuckers.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

All first wave black metal bands can be placed more logically under other genres with the exception of Bathory (but even a lot of their stuff sounds more thrash than black metal) but there's no denying their influence on what we've come to know as black metal.

Exactly.

 

[Hatebreeder]

Early Venom doesn't sound like black metal because black metal didn't even exist yet.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Fantastic logic, would read again!

 

[Mort Divine]

Then I prefer bad doom in many cases. For instance, I'd take Mourning Beloveth over Saint Vitus any day, and I truly believe that they are the superior band.

Death/Doom > Post-rocky Sludge >= Traditional > Stoner = Funeral > Old school sludge = drone

 

[Hatebreeder]

I never could get into drone. I appreciate what it tries to do, but I don't really enjoy the music.

 

[Mort Divine]

Yes it did.

Dodens is right with this, as much as I fought against him in the past I eventually saw it. If you listen to alot of black metal bands you can hear Venom (not so much have I been able to do this), or Mercyful Fate (I can hear this often enough) influenced riffs. Sure the style grew FAR more extreme and the production values were altered but black metal existed back then ... in some way, not because of those doucher ideas about ideology though.

 

[Hatebreeder]

Well, I'm sure music that sounded like black metal existed, but the term had not yet been coined, so technically, black metal didn't exist yet.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

Well, I'm sure music that sounded like black metal existed, but the term had not yet been coined, so technically, black metal didn't exist yet.

LOL, Album=Black Metal.

Fucking retard.

 

[Hatebreeder]

LOL, Album=Black Metal.

Fucking retard.

Venom released an album before Black Metal.

Dumbass.

 

[Zephyrus]

I trust Dodens on all matters of this subject.