This forum + "Prog"

NFU

NFU

I like pie.
Jan 9, 2002
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Maybe im a purist...im not really sure...but i cant help but get very irratated by misuse of the word prog in this forum. It seems like many people have jumped on the prog bandwagon since mikael is mentioning it more in interviews and its gaining more and more recognition in the metal scene. People now listen to "Opeth, spocks beard, spiral architect, and now camel"...and i cant help but get a little irratated...maybe im being an ass. I feel the old prog scene was a incredible era of innovation, emotion, and beauty...and now prog seems to be nothing but scales, non constructed wankery and musical nonsense. Im not sure if i really had a point or an answer for my problem with this...i just felt i had to share. Any other prog purists and enthusiasts agree with me?
 
heheh i knew when i clicked on this it would be what you would say. I "semi" agree, in the way that prog is no longer meaning so much "inventive, original" and meaning more an ACTUAL definable style, a la the Dream Theater Images & Words type thing which so many bands have tried to copy. BUT i would say a lot of the things people listed there in that thread were indeed good choices. Technical and odd rhythms/note choice may seem like wankery, but for the most part a lot of bands who do it can still be considered "prog" in the true sense in my mind.
 
Originally posted by LordHypnos
Maybe im a purist...im not really sure...but i cant help but get very irratated by misuse of the word prog in this forum. It seems like many people have jumped on the prog bandwagon since mikael is mentioning it more in interviews and its gaining more and more recognition in the metal scene. People now listen to "Opeth, spocks beard, spiral architect, and now camel"...and i cant help but get a little irratated...maybe im being an ass. I feel the old prog scene was a incredible era of innovation, emotion, and beauty...and now prog seems to be nothing but scales, non constructed wankery and musical nonsense. Im not sure if i really had a point or an answer for my problem with this...i just felt i had to share. Any other prog purists and enthusiasts agree with me?
Click to expand...


Prog isn't really a movement or an era of music in my opinion. It's anything that moves music forward into uncharted (and preferably challenging) territory. To me, that makes a lot of bands progressive, including the ones you listed, but also other things like Godspeed you black emperor!, Porcupine Tree, ...And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead, Devin Townsend, and the list goes on and on. Traditional prog is good, but for the most part it isn't breaking any new ground because many of the bands write similar music, they're just skilled, technical musicians.
 
It really depends what your definition of the word is. Whatever it means to you really. I suppose now Prog is used to define an actual genre or style of music as opposed to list bands exploring something new... This seems to be the common definition.
 
Old Prog=Uriah Heep, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Yes
New Prog=Neurosis, ISIS, Enslaved, Maudlin of the Well

END
 
I am not a prog purist, I don't think...

I consider these albums the 'prog' in my collection-
Pink Floyd - all of them
Yes - Close to the Edge (pure prog)
King Crimson - all of them as well
Maudlin of the Well - all of them
Symphony X - V
Radiohead - Kid A (this IS definately prog, you must admit)
Dan Swano - Moontower
Opeth - all of them

I don't really know how many of those are purely prog, but thats the 'prog' I like, whether thats good or bad.

ps. I don't know if I am using the word 'prog' correctly, ahh well, screw it.
 
Originally posted by Thorns of Sorrow
prog = Dream theater, Shadow Gallery, Enchant, Ark, Symphony X

Progressive Rock = King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Rush, IQ, Marillion, etc
Click to expand...

Yeh, that is what I reckon.

Prog is overused though. And it has no REAL definition. Hell, a band could play simple music, but have AMAZING lyrics, and be called progressive for that. I tend to think of a band that has prog techniques constant through a song, and with no real genre, as a TRUE Progressive band.

But a band that plays a certain genre of metal, for instance the genre death metal and the band Opeth, are not a a Progressive band... they are a Progressive Death Metal band.

Progressive definition is as individualistic as the music itself...

I like that... *writes it down*
 
I'm as guilty of this as anybody, but I realize that some of the bands that received this label are not particularly innovative, and that there is just as much progression, if not more, in the extreme/avant garde spectrum. To me, prog means forward thinking, creative music that distinguishes itself through its intelligence and technicality.
 
Originally posted by LordHypnos
Maybe im a purist...im not really sure...but i cant help but get very irratated by misuse of the word prog in this forum. It seems like many people have jumped on the prog bandwagon since mikael is mentioning it more in interviews and its gaining more and more recognition in the metal scene. People now listen to "Opeth, spocks beard, spiral architect, and now camel"...and i cant help but get a little irratated...maybe im being an ass. I feel the old prog scene was a incredible era of innovation, emotion, and beauty...and now prog seems to be nothing but scales, non constructed wankery and musical nonsense. Im not sure if i really had a point or an answer for my problem with this...i just felt i had to share. Any other prog purists and enthusiasts agree with me?
Click to expand...

Halle-frickin'-lujah! Somebody that agrees with me on this matter. I'm more of a fan of the 70s prog simply because it was all about being inventive and daring. There's too much emphasis on technical skill than trying something new. That's why, with a few exceptions, I can't stand prog nowadays. It's too samey, too "safe".
 
i agree with lord hypnos!

i hate modern prog.

stuffs like liquid tension experiment,spock's beard:)Puke: ),dream theater,theory in practice,stratovarious,symphony x:)Puke: ),etc.

not because they are technical players or they do technical compositions

only because they are really cold and unemotional and sometimes they have no ideas at all!

but i like some of them expecially in the near past like:
watchtower,aghora,gordian knot(not the second!),cynic,spiral architect,nocturnus...

however i am a great fan of technical emotional or conceptual music.

but not circus technical stuffs!:rolleyes:

:lol:
 
Im getting really into dream theater's 6DOIT actually. And mostly because of the more simplistic moments (i think they do get quite emotional on this album when they arent practicing scales), when labre (sp?) isnt trying to sing heavily or weirdly or highly, and when the drums are just laid back and stuff.

70s prog certainly was the better stuff, a musical attitude and inventiveness that is really inspiring. Something i am aiming for, but im simply not musically ready to make that step yet, gotta get my base skills to a certain level im happy with before i start attempting these weird musical visions i have.

But whatever, "prog" is just a word, and like every word thats used to describe music its meaning changes over time. Punk is nothing like what it used to be, metal is certainly not what it originally was, etc etc... its just a matter of recognising there are more than 1 meaning of such words.
 
Originally posted by Stinkfist
I class prog as anything that does not have a conventional song structure.
Click to expand...
Yet others class it as a band who progresses their sound over their career. Others associate it with the dream theater high vocals and that style of guitar. Still more associate it with the attitude of the 70s bands to push boundaries and do new and weird things. Or with the 70s sound. Some think that 10 minute songs are enough to be a prog band. etc etc etc...
 
I don't want to start any big arguments or get into any huge flame wars but if you think prog nowadays is just technical and no melody, emotion or real thought (like I admit a lot of it is), check out Pain of Salvation. There are some sound files at their site (www.painofsalvation.com) and check out as many as you can as they are very unique and their music is totally about emotion and the lyrics (so try and get a copy of them!). Again, not trying to start arguments, just wanted to suggest a 'different' progressive metal band.
 
Its probably thrown around so much because it applies to so much. Its hard to have a set definition for it. I believe that progressive music is music that progresses. You could look at a band as progressive, such as Opeth progressed from Orchid to Blackwater Park. You could look at a cd as progressive, like Tool's cd Lateralus progressing from mid tempo tracks, to more aggressive songs, then into softer songs. You could look at a song as progressive, based on the bands song writing and the time shifts. Progressive doesn't really have to be used in a positive sense either. Someone could say that Dream Theater's Images & Words cd progressed from very skilled songs into more boring material. That of course would be their opinion, which means that a band could be progressive in my eyes, but in someone else's eyes (ears I guess you could say) not be.
 
I think of progressive as music that uses song structures that progress and develop, rather than using structures that goes from point A to point B to point C and back to point A, repeating until the end of the song with a break in the middle for a solo.
 
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