Thought on PoS Scarsick

[halcyonwayband@aol.com]

I think the train of thought there is to fix our own before fixing others.

Sure, that's great, but how do you (meaning the government) fix an individual's bad decision making skills? My point is that a lot of statements made like that don't have their basis in any sort of reality. The government can't make people make good decisions....there will always be people that when faced with two decisions - one good but difficult, and one bad but easy - that will always take the easy way out. Going back to the 12 year old.....call gramma up or the minister or the social worker, or sell drugs. Or mug someone. What to do?

The government's role is to protect the rights and liberty of the people (via laws), and to provide for the security of the country (via the military & defense). Not to try to make every human in the country a good & moral person....

What, is he proposing that we form the "department of goodness" or something like that to try to coerce individuals into doing the right thing? I don't get it. Really....sounds like he wants a police state or something. I don't even know what his point is. Arrgh.

 

[BlindPanzer]

I didn't state that I share the same point of view. I merely tried to clarify Johan's point from what I assume he is trying to get across.

 

[StewiesSexyParties]

Haha who the hell cares about their political views anyway? I disagree with damn near every fucking word Johan said in that paragraph that was posted, but I still love the new album. That's why I try not to read interviews...it's the same as when I see Bono or Angelina Jolie on TV talking about the rainforest or some shit. I just say "Oh stick to your overpaid acting job you stupid preachy fuck" and change the channel. Same with musicians. I don't care what Pain of Salvation thinks about Iraq, and I'd be baffled if anyone here said they do. Like I said, I'll stay away from the interviews. It's not worth my time to get worked up over what some goofy musician in Sweden thinks of my country. But it's not like it's a huge burden for me to listen to a CD with political overtones...as long as the CD kicks ass, which Scarsick does.

 

[General Zod]

who's to say our popular culture (cause ultimately that's what it's about, more on this in a moment) has any depth anyway?

I don't think anyone said "popular culture" has depth.

if someone only visited a couple times, they'd get more of these than the general sense.

I disagree. That's like saying if I visit Germany, all I need to do to experience German culture is eat a brat, drink a Becks and drive 140 mph on the autobahn.

however, you've also argued that the general sense is superficial. to me, this says that daniel is right on the money.

Obviously it says something different to you than it does to me, or we wouldn't still be having this discussion.

american popular culture IS superficial and vapid...

Show me a country whose popular culture has depth.

Zod

 

[rockyracoon]

Show me a country whose popular culture has depth. Zod

True, pop culture alone may not have much depth. But culture itself is not made up of just one thing, and so I would have to say pop culture is a small piece of the pie.


Also, in regards to culture. It's very easy for me to understand how Daniel, or anyone might have problems with culture in the U.S. We live in a global economy/marketplace, for better or worse. Because of this, it stands to reason that the U.S. is able to impose its language, food, entertainment, beliefs, etc., on many other nations. I cannot fault someone for hating this. I would prefer that each country maintain the things inherently unique about them, without becoming American-ized.

 

[halcyonwayband@aol.com]

I didn't state that I share the same point of view. I merely tried to clarify Johan's point from what I assume he is trying to get across.

Sorry man, didn't mean to imply that. I knew what ya meant. The statement he made just doesn't make any sense to me....

 

[halcyonwayband@aol.com]

Haha who the hell cares about their political views anyway? I disagree with damn near every fucking word Johan said in that paragraph that was posted, but I still love the new album. That's why I try not to read interviews...it's the same as when I see Bono or Angelina Jolie on TV talking about the rainforest or some shit. I just say "Oh stick to your overpaid acting job you stupid preachy fuck" and change the channel. Same with musicians. I don't care what Pain of Salvation thinks about Iraq, and I'd be baffled if anyone here said they do. Like I said, I'll stay away from the interviews. It's not worth my time to get worked up over what some goofy musician in Sweden thinks of my country. But it's not like it's a huge burden for me to listen to a CD with political overtones...as long as the CD kicks ass, which Scarsick does.

What do you mean????? Bono's not an authority on the rainforest???

 

[3DimensionalAperture]

Haha who the hell cares about their political views anyway? I disagree with damn near every fucking word Johan said in that paragraph that was posted, but I still love the new album.

More power to you man. Seperating the art from the artist is what true music listening should be about. People who can't stand an album just because of lyrical content is utterly ridiculous.

what, it has more "substance" to it because you agree with it? It's subjective, and that means that what you said is completely illogical.

Also.....you're right - "correct" and "opinion" by themselves have nothing to do with each other. But when you put them together, they do.

****BBBBBB*****says the Aflac duck.

@ your first comment: If a guy with red shoes goes around claiming how he has blue shoes and says "they look blue to me, screw you all it's my opinion", it means his opinion has no validity or substance to it whatsoever since our current day comprehension of the color red looks nothing like our current day comprehension of the color blue.

This guy's entitled to his opinion, since all opinion is subjective, but it's a highly uninformed and borderline retarded opinion.


@ your second comment: Putting the words "correct" and "opinion" together just means "correct opinion", but that wouldn't make that term oxymoronical just because in *your* eyes, all opinions are neutral and there is no such thing as a right/wrong opinion (which by the way, destroys this entire thread of you dogging the anti-American sentiment, becuase I can just easily say it's their opinion and they are entitled and have just as much ground to offend you as they could possibly want). Something that is an oxymoron is a combination of two opposing words (words with complete opposite MEANINGS) such as "true lies".

 

[halcyonwayband@aol.com]

@ your second comment: Putting the words "correct" and "opinion" together just means "correct opinion", but that wouldn't make that term oxymoronical just because in *your* eyes, all opinions are neutral and there is no such thing as a right/wrong opinion (which by the way, destroys this entire thread of you dogging the anti-American sentiment, becuase I can just easily say it's their opinion and they are entitled and have just as much ground to offend you as they could possibly want). Something that is an oxymoron is a combination of two opposing words (words with complete opposite MEANINGS) such as "true lies".[/QUOTE]

If you want to say "correct opinion" then you just need to come out and say "fact". In which case you would have to PROVE the validity of the statement empirically. Opinions cannot be absolutely true, or they would be a statement of fact:

o·pin·ion /əˈpɪnyən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1250–1300; ME < OF < L op&#299;ni&#333;n- (s. of op&#299;ni&#333, deriv. of op&#299;n&#257;r&#299; to opine]


—Synonyms 1. persuasion, notion, idea, impression. Opinion, sentiment, view are terms for one's conclusion about something. An opinion is a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge; it is a conclusion that certain facts, ideas, etc., are probably true or likely to prove so: political opinions; an opinion about art; In my opinion this is true. Sentiment (usually pl.) refers to a rather fixed conviction, usually based on feeling or emotion rather than reasoning: These are my sentiments. View is an estimate of something, an intellectual judgment, a critical survey based on a mental examination, particularly of a public matter: views on governmental planning.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

 

[3DimensionalAperture]

^ Amazing job neglecting to read my first comment so you can show off your copy/paste skills. Not impressed though, but I'll repost.

If a guy with red shoes goes around claiming how he has blue shoes and says "they look blue to me, screw you all it's my opinion", it means his opinion has no validity or substance to it whatsoever since our current day comprehension of the color red looks nothing like our current day comprehension of the color blue. This guy's entitled to his opinion, since all opinion is subjective, but it's a highly uninformed and borderline retarded opinion.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

More power to you man. Seperating the art from the artist is what true music listening should be about. People who can't stand an album just because of lyrical content is utterly ridiculous.

With PoS, I CAN seperate lyrical content (IMO=mostly bad), and the instrumental content (IMO=mostly good), but, I won't care about a cd/album that is musically rocking, but has lyrics about satanism, necrophilia, pedophilia, or good ol' barnyard follies, for example. I would fail to see how I'd be ridiculous for hating it based on lyrical content.

J-Dubya

 

[3DimensionalAperture]

With PoS, I CAN seperate lyrical content (IMO=mostly bad), and the instrumental content (IMO=mostly good), but, I won't care about a cd/album that is musically rocking, but has lyrics about satanism, necrophilia, pedophilia, or good ol' barnyard follies, for example. I would fail to see how I'd be ridiculous for hating it based on lyrical content.

J-Dubya

That's sad than. I guess you wouldn't like Barnyard Follies of Fire.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i'm done with this argument, cause it seems i am not articulate enough to surpass the "black/white" positions i'm seeing and apparently portraying, and that is not productive.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

That's sad than. I guess you wouldn't like Barnyard Follies of Fire.

Are they Italian???

J-Dubya

 

[J-Dubya 777]

i'm done with this argument, cause it seems i am not articulate enough to surpass the "black/white" positions i'm seeing and apparently portraying, and that is not productive.

You can't just take your ball and go home after all this.....QUITTER!!!!
You're gonna let yourself get beat by an old guy like Zod???

J-Dubya
/stirring the pot

 

[3DimensionalAperture]

Are they Italian???

J-Dubya

 

[Everonn]

This is a strange, strange thread. Just a couple quick points...

First, the lyrics on Scarsick aren't taking on a country or culture as a whole. If you read what they say, they're taking on the dark underbelly of a culture. They're critical of specifically the parts that are superficial, fake, destructive, etc. People here seem to have a bone to pick with Pain of Salvation for being critical of the parts of popular culture that most (if not all) of us are critical of ourselves. I mean, we're into progressive metal...we turn being anti-superficial into (literally) an art form.

Second, as the album is "the perfect element, part II - he" it's told from the perspective of a character in a story. While I'm sure the band doesn't disagree with the general themes in their lyrics, the fervor and extent of the sentiments is the character's, not the band's. You know, none of us spend a lot of time trying to crucify Geoff Tate for wanting to burn the White House down.

It's all moot anyway. Even if these bands did hold opinions as passionate as the characters in their stories, we shouldn't need to agree with an artist's views in order to enjoy their art. In the end, great art comes from whatever truly inspires an artist, whatever that may be. This is a band that sees a world with flaws and creates something to express what they feel about it. Whether their music syncs up with a listener is incidental and subjective. If it does for you, wonderful. If it doesn't, that's fine too. There's much more out there.


- Chris

 

[jhallum]

This is a strange, strange thread. Just a couple quick points...

First, the lyrics on Scarsick aren't taking on a country or culture as a whole. If you read what they say, they're taking on the dark underbelly of a culture. They're critical of specifically the parts that are superficial, fake, destructive, etc. People here seem to have a bone to pick with Pain of Salvation for being critical of the parts of popular culture that most (if not all) of us are critical of ourselves. I mean, we're into progressive metal...we turn being anti-superficial into (literally) an art form.

Second, as the album is "the perfect element, part II - he" it's told from the perspective of a character in a story. While I'm sure the band doesn't disagree with the general themes in their lyrics, the fervor and extent of the sentiments is the character's, not the band's. You know, none of us spend a lot of time trying to crucify Geoff Tate for wanting to burn the White House down.

It's all moot anyway. Even if these bands did hold opinions as passionate as the characters in their stories, we shouldn't need to agree with an artist's views in order to enjoy their art. In the end, great art comes from whatever truly inspires an artist, whatever that may be. This is a band that sees a world with flaws and creates something to express what they feel about it. Whether their music syncs up with a listener is incidental and subjective. If it does for you, wonderful. If it doesn't, that's fine too. There's much more out there.


- Chris

+1

Great statement.

 

[Everonn]

I won't care about a cd/album that is musically rocking, but has lyrics about satanism, necrophilia, pedophilia, or good ol' barnyard follies

You old stick-in-the-mud. ;-)

I dunno. I don't need to agree with Slayer, Venom or Marilyn Manson about religion when listening to their music, and I don't consider them to be a threat to my faith. I'm a fan of Pantera and Tool, but they both express pro-drug ideas that I disagree with. Whether I agree or disagree with Freak Kitchen's environmentalist stance in "The Wrong Year" doesn't make or break my enjoyment of the song.

Music is a form of art. Do you refuse to watch movies or read books that feature Satan?


- Chris

 

[General Zod]

You know, none of us spend a lot of time trying to crucify Geoff Tate for wanting to burn the White House down.

Perhaps because we agree with the underlying sentiment?

Zod