Thoughts about the music business

[tuonelan]

Been listening to The Police again a bit lately as a byproduct of teaching a class with short stories all from that era. Would not go to a Police concert, though, unless they were to put out a new album that was up to their old standards and I would not wear a Police t-shirt. Pretty much do not wear a shirt from any band that is not still producing music and is not small enough that my buying merch and helping to advertise them won't make a difference.

As far as Metallica thinking they are all that and still headlining big festivals and whatnot, the big problem I see in the US is that a band has to be on a big label and doing mainstream hard rock/metal to get any radio play and thus any sales from big box outlets. All my favorite radio stations from the past that played metal have been bought out and turned into talk radio or some other safe format. Ain't no one playing decent metal outside of satellite radio. And as far as I can tell, it seems like you pretty much have to be a corporate sellout yourself in order to afford most satellite radio subscriptions for your car.

Not me. I'm driving a 12 year old Mustang that still has a CD/tape deck.

 

[papajohnny]

Pretty much do not wear a shirt from any band that is not still producing music and is not small enough that my buying merch and helping to advertise them won't make a difference.

I wouldn't mind wearing a shirt of some old, dead band that knew how to stay dead, in a sort of a way (you mentioned tape deck - I immediately thought of CCR - they might not be the best example of a band that stuck on friendly terms after breaking up, but AFAIK they never turned to total sellout crap).
But yeah, I wouldn't really go buy a shirt made by label, I guess (if there are any). The band is dead, so I have no real reason not to get a bootleg.

But in general, I agree with you. I don't actually have any shirt of a band that doesn't exist anymore (except a Nirvana shirt which I wore when I was 13 years old, but that doesn't count). I'm just saying.
There are a couple of older bands whose shirt I wouldn't mind wearing, but that's it.


Speaking of band shirts, I'm really annoyed when I see a shirt without a back print sold for a price as if it had one (I'm talking about legit stuff here, of course) - not to mention that if there is a version with a back print, it's insanely overpriced.
What the fuck? Printing isn't that expensive. Why shouldn't they do it?

 

[xptrinity]

I would wear a Pink Floyd and a Queen t-shirt, but I don't feel it's right because I've never been to a gig of theirs. Those are the only two bands, for which I would use a time machine to attend a gig. Oh, well, The Beatles, too... (Been to a Rolling Stones gig and it was great.)
But they are two of the greatest rock bands who have some sort of dignity and "stay dead". (Queen had some escapade with some other singer, if I recall correctly, but didn't manage to make complete fools of themselves.)
In other news Crue to be sued if they ever tour again. Well, we shall see... Didn't they already have a farewell tour a couple of years ago? Or was it a comeback tour? See, I am confused. I have a great dislike and general mistrust for this 1980's Sunset Strip rock, so I may be terribly mistaken and definitely refuse to get excited about this piece of news, but it's worth commenting, I think...

 

[tuonelan]

Crüe won't tour...yeah, but I bet they will run out of money and end up as the house act for Hard Rock Vegas Casino or some crap like that.

True confession...I did look for a Kingston Wall shirt a few years back, and that would have broken my rule. I'd also violate that rule for Demilich. Maybe even Chaosbreed, but none of those bands belong in a discussion of Classic Rock headliners.

Bathory and Death both get full-on exemptions from the rule as well, especially if it is a tribute shirt that goes to charity.

...oh, and maybe Celtic Frost-ah! gets an exemption as well.

 

[papajohnny]

Too many exceptions, now that I think about it. Hell, I could use a Dismember shirt.
And I've been meaning to get a Bathory shirt some time now. And Celtic Frost. People seem to be buying Hellhammer bootleg shirts for some reason, as if it were better than Frost, but I want Frost.
And I wouldn't mind...well...this:

http://ritualz.bigcartel.com/product/ystein-sweatshirt-pre-order

Okay, I'll stop.

 

[koivusaari]

Speaking of band's ego.. 50 EUR for autograph/photo that doesn't include a ticket for the show? Ridiculous!
http://shop.turisas.com/products/we-ride-together-european-tour-2014-vip-meet-greet-package

 

[xptrinity]

Turisas as KI$$ and Bon Jovi...

 

[Eurynome]

Unfortunately, even Amorphis are starting to sell VIP tickets. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the advert. Note that the package does not include a meeting with the band, it's just the ticket plus a pre-show buffet. (And Finnish buffets are rarely what Americans, or any citizen of a Central European country, would be willing to pay almost €40 for.)

 

[xptrinity]

Now this borders on the idiotic. I mean, if I'm hungry, I'll just go somewhere and grab a pizza or something. Or eat at home. Why would I shell out money to eat catering food?
Don't get me wrong, though. I don't mind some kind of VIP packages, not that I would buy one. But Paradise Lost have been selling those for years now. They usually include a meet and greet, some signed stuff, some limited edition t-shirt or some other kind of merchandise and a ticket to the show.

 

[papajohnny]

I wouldn't know about VIP tickets, but I don't like direction which Amorphis has been taking lately.
In fact, I hate it.

BBQ sauce? Amorphis calendar? I need to buy approx. 5 different versions of a single album in order to have all songs? And now this?

I'm sorry, but for me, it's getting too far.
I love Amorphis with all my heart, they are very important to me - in fact, they could probably be the most important artist in my life so far, in general. But I really hate the over-commercialized approach they seem to be taking.
I'm still holding away from calling them sellouts, because, well, they made this unique sound to them and are sticking to it, and although their newer albums sound quite similar, they still delivered some solid efforts and show some will to experiment...but I don't know. I hate what's going on, really.

At least they back all that up with solid music, but who knows how long that will last?

 

[koivusaari]

Let's not forget Amorphis backstage app which was active not longer than several months, if I'm right. It was just crap!

 

[xptrinity]

Ah, but that's a conversation I've been having for the past four years now. If not more.
Think about it - when was the last time they took a turn in their style? They used to do so every other album, more or less. Now they've been churning out ever more of the same in the past eight years.
Not that I awfully mind this new style. I quite like it, as a matter of fact, but I think they've become too complacent and radio friendly. And they used to be known for their non-conformism and innovation...
They've just become part of the mainstream scenery.
I don't know what the reason may be. - Age? Complacency? Artistic exhaustion? The fact that their only source of income these days is Amorphis? Management? Sloth?
I surely would love to have a discussion with them on the subject, but I know this is never going to happen. Meanwhile, the only thing that's stopping me from calling them sellouts is my emotional attachment to their music, the respect and hope. I still think that the sauce, the VIP packages, beer product placements, reality shows and whatever other idiocies we're served, are the doing of management and not of the band members themselves. I hope they still have the self respect and integrity to privately laugh at all this.
It's quite ironic, actually. There were the times when I was complaining that no one in Amo-camp knows fuck all about marketing and pleasing the fans. - There are people in this forum who had been subjected to my lengthy rants on the subject.
But, hell - sauces, VIP packages, product endorsements and other assorted bullshit is not what I meant. As we say in Bulgaria: "Dear God, did I pray wrongly, or did you get me wrong?"

 

[Luoto]

Think about it - when was the last time they took a turn in their style? They used to do so every other album, more or less. Now they've been churning out ever more of the same in the past eight years.
Not that I awfully mind this new style. I quite like it, as a matter of fact, but I think they've become too complacent and radio friendly. And they used to be known for their non-conformism and innovation... They've just become part of the mainstream scenery.

I don't know what the reason may be. - Age? Complacency? Artistic exhaustion? The fact that their only source of income these days is Amorphis? Management? Sloth?

Hitting the cash is likely one, but the other reason is simply a stable line-up. Silent Waters was the first Amorphis album that had the exact same musicians compared to the previous record, and that was a sorta point of no return after the commercially successful Eclipse. I've quoted an interview with Esa from some years back several times where he said every line-up change brought something new. I also remember them saying an instrumental record was an option had they not found a replacement for Pasi.

 

[papajohnny]

I'd say they are afraid of experimenting and losing money.
From what I can see, they built a stable population of post-Eclipse fans, as I like to call them, the people who are more or less there for their newer albums and are not that much interested with "Pasi era" and early days. That is all right, of course, to like a certain period in band's discography more than other, but it's a bit pathetic when an artist tries to cater just to that particular population of fans.
They know if they changed the sound a bit more than they have to, they could easily lose a good portion of sales/fans.

That's why Circle was so pompously announced as a change in sound, a heavier album etc. Total crap. It was heavier, that's true, but it's not experimental or risk-taking in any real sort of way. They said all that, made it a bit different because they too felt a refreshment was in place, but it's nothing to write home about.

It's quite simple, Amorphis is amorphous no more, and I don't see them changing their shape any time soon. Or rather, ever.
Which is quite sad, really. They were once known as one of the bigger bands which had balls to risk with almost every album, but I guess those days are long gone.

 

[xptrinity]

So it boils down to cash and sloth.
Took them 20 years to figure it out
The undoing of every band.
Better late than never, I'd say. I as a fan, hate it, but, hey, more power to them, if it makes them at least remotely rich and provides for a nice pension plan and good schools for the kids. (Yeah, I know uni in Finland is theoretically free, but that's how the saying goes.)
I for one will keep on buying the albums and going to gigs, but have actually stopped hoping for anything new and exciting since Skyforger.
However, don't expect me to buy the sauce, the beer, endorsed in the latest Amo documentary, the detergent, or the VIP package in order to have the dubious pleasure of eating Finnish catering food. (Not bad, but only if you're starving. Otherwise it's best described as bland and unimaginative.)
I will probably never call them sellouts, but have learned to take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[papajohnny]

Indeed, the undoing of every band.

I will hold my "Sellout!" shout in reserve until next album. If that one is another Circle or whatever, I won't hold back.
I will still buy it, yeah, and try to go to a gig, but I guess a little piece of me will die. Or rather, get killed.

 

[tuonelan]

Gotta pay the bills.

At least they are consistently giving us a number of gems on each new CD and have not become Def Leppard (or Disturbed).

 

[Eurynome]

I love Amorphis with all my heart, they are very important to me - in fact, they could probably be the most important artist in my life so far, in general. But I really hate the over-commercialized approach they seem to be taking.
I'm still holding away from calling them sellouts, because, well, they made this unique sound to them and are sticking to it, and although their newer albums sound quite similar, they still delivered some solid efforts and show some will to experiment...but I don't know. I hate what's going on, really.

Scary, those sentences look just as if they had been written on my keyboard. Thanks for sparing me the effort, which is thereby reduced by a heartfelt "+1".

Not that I awfully mind this new style. I quite like it, as a matter of fact, but I think they've become too complacent and radio friendly.

Again, full agreement on my part.

I don't know what the reason may be. - Age? Complacency? Artistic exhaustion? The fact that their only source of income these days is Amorphis? Management? Sloth?

A mix of all these factors, I think, plus the stability Blizk pointed out and the routines that have established themselves with it.

I surely would love to have a discussion with them on the subject, but I know this is never going to happen.

They've become very practised in the art of deflecting critical questions, as I have witnessed on more than one occasion. The interviews they did for "Circle" sounded almost scripted. One of the more obscure items in my vinyl collection is an "interview disc" Grace Slick recorded in the late 70s to promote her second solo album. It was distributed to radio stations and contains ready-made answers to questions the DJ was supposed to ask on air, as to give the illusion of a "live interview". Not suggesting that Amorphis would ever go that far, but it appears that instructions from the management to the label concerning the refusal of interviews to potentially critical journalists are already reality.

Meanwhile, the only thing that's stopping me from calling them sellouts is my emotional attachment to their music, the respect and hope. I still think that the sauce, the VIP packages, beer product placements, reality shows and whatever other idiocies we're served, are the doing of management and not of the band members themselves. I hope they still have the self respect and integrity to privately laugh at all this.

At least the two Tomis still seem to be above suspicion. That TJ agreed to take part in a bout of absolutely non-commercial, 100% alcohol-induced silliness on youtube gives me more hope than political correctness would allow.

As we say in Bulgaria: "Dear God, did I pray wrongly, or did you get me wrong?"

 

[papajohnny]

At least the two Tomis still seem to be above suspicion. That TJ agreed to take part in a bout of absolutely non-commercial, 100% alcohol-induced silliness on youtube gives me more hope than political correctness would allow.

Wait, what?

 

[Eurynome]

Wait, what?

See the Fun Stuff thread (where I included a bit of background info) or watch the continuing saga here. The next episode will be aired tomorrow. Have a few beers before watching, it'll all make sense then without need for understanding the words.