Torn over drum mic setup options

[Wisheraser]

So I’m finally about ready to start recording both of my band’s cds, but I’m starting to second guess my setup plans. This is my first time recording real drums, so I’m not 100% positive what the best option is and was hoping to get some opinions.

The room is a decent size (roughly 20’ x 26’ x 7’) and fairly extensively treated with absorption and diffusion. Pics in this thread: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...s-your-studio-2011-room-racks-backline-8.html

The original plan was:
Snare – Granelli 57 -> API 3124
Rack toms – Audix D2s -> API 3124
Floor tom – Audix D4 -> API 3124
Kick – Audix D6 -> Chandler Germanium
L R Spaced pair OHs – KM184s -> SCA A12s
Mono OH – SM81 – SCA N72
Hi hat – SM7b –> FMR RNP
Ride – SM81 -> FMR RNP

All going to my Fireface 800

Now I’m starting to doubt the need for the Mono OH. The original plan was to mic up the cymbals in pairs, but I’m starting to think the 184s may be enough for OH duty and I could use that spare input as a side or bottom snare mic, or throw up a mono room mic. Any thoughts?

 

[Pinebox]

If it is a choice between an extra overhead or a bottom snare mic, I would go with the extra overhead, as it is so common to augment the snare with a sample, if not completely replace it. IMO It is way easier to fix shitty drums than shitty overheads, so it would be nice to have that center OH safety net for yourself. But if you are tracking two whole albums with the setup you choose, then I would say try both and figure out what is going to work best in the room/on the set. Good luck.

 

[BLUElightCory]

I'd ditch the hat and ride mic, and add a bottom snare mic and a second room mic (so you can do wide stereo room mics rather than a mono room - VERY useful for big drum sounds). Even if you're sample-replacing, having a real bottom snare mic goes a long way towards retaining a somewhat natural snare sound.

 

[crillemannen]

Hey man check out my setup with clip: http://studiohaga.net/kidgalahad__drms.mp3
Just some eq, and master bus comp.

Snare: sm57
Toms : AudioTechnicha ATM450
OH: Peluso cemc6 (just bought them, and they are slightly better then the oktavas
Kick: Beta 52a
AMB: Pair of cheap Se Electronics, but they do make the difference, bigtime

 

[pikachu69]

I didn't see a room mic mentioned in your list. Not too much point in hunting out a good sounding room and not record it. Room mics are used in pro recordings WAY more than people realize. U need at least a stereo pair of room mics to be able to get a really 'glued' sounding drum track.

 

[crillemannen]

I didn't see a room mic mentioned in your list. Not too much point in hunting out a good sounding room and not record it. Room mics are used in pro recordings WAY more than people realize. U need at least a stereo pair of room mics to be able to get a really 'glued' sounding drum track.

BIIIIG +1 on that.

Stereo ambience is the shit.

 

[Fama]

Hey man check out my setup with clip: http://studiohaga.net/kidgalahad__drms.mp3
Just some eq, and master bus comp.

Snare: sm57
Toms : AudioTechnicha ATM450
OH: Peluso cemc6 (just bought them, and they are slightly better then the oktavas
Kick: Beta 52a
AMB: Pair of cheap Se Electronics, but they do make the difference, bigtime

Damn I like the sound of those toms. A lot.

 

[crillemannen]

Thanks man.

Great player, great drums, good tuning, not that hard to get that sound then actually
The Atm450 aren't that expensive and they do sound awesome

 

[Wisheraser]

Damn I like the sound of those toms. A lot.

+1. I may have to look into those ATMs

I didn't see a room mic mentioned in your list. Not too much point in hunting out a good sounding room and not record it. Room mics are used in pro recordings WAY more than people realize. U need at least a stereo pair of room mics to be able to get a really 'glued' sounding drum track.

Being that I ran out of inputs, I was planning on tracking with just the close mics, editing, then "reamping" some room sounds with a MS or Blumlein setup. I'm hesitant to ditch the hat and ride/china mics cause it seems like they would come in quite handy during some of the more dense sections. Plus, I see guys around here like Ermz and Lasse tracking with them all the time.

 

[Damage, Inc.]

I personally would ditch the ride mic and add a bottom snare and another room. You can gate the crap out of the bottom snare, all you need from it is some sizzle. Walk around the room as the drummer is playing and find a good place for the room mics, like other posters mentioned, they are very important for getting a good drum tone.

 

[JeffTD]

I take it you're dealing with 10 ins max?

I'd do what you've planned but ditch the mono OH mic and mic either the snare bottom or a mono room. I'd then 'reamp' some room sounds via your monitors at the Neumann and Shure SDC pair and blend those in.

I fucking hate mixing without hat/ride mics, really hard to get either sitting properly or as wide as I'd like them to be without spot mics!

 

[Wisheraser]

I take it you're dealing with 10 ins max?

Yeah 10 ins. I could borrow an API A2D as well and hook it up via spdif, but I've read that older FF800's like mine can have some issues when slaved to an external clock.

I fucking hate mixing without hat/ride mics, really hard to get either sitting properly or as wide as I'd like them to be without spot mics!

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. I'm used to mixing with the nearly unlimited flexibility of SD2 + various samples. I'd rather not go too far outside of my comfort zone with these projects.



Just for a bit more information, there are 3 cd's that I'll be doing all at once. The first one is sort of a Gojira meets Converge style band. The drummer is using a mid level Pearl kit from the 70's. Nothing special, but pretty decent. It took some threatening to convince him that he needed to change his fuckin skins (the reso heads have NEVER been replaced), but I finally got that through his skull.

The other band has more of a Karnivool meets Clutch kind of sound. We're doing a heavyish cd and an acoustic cd. The drummer for this band has a really nice Gretsch kit with 4 toms. I was planning a similar setup with this kit, but with the mono OH replaced with another D4 on the lower floor tom and possibly a Beta 52 on the kick.

For the acoustic cd, I'm thinking of starting with a Glyn Johns setup, then experimenting with close mics and room mics until things sound right.

 

[jipchen]

Yeah 10 ins. I could borrow an API A2D as well and hook it up via spdif, but I've read that older FF800's like mine can have some issues when slaved to an external clock.

Really? I've never heard such a thing - my FF800 worked well, also with external clocks. In case of the A2D, the old version of the API A2D has no real wordclock (only "superclock") and thus the only way to clock it correctly with most interfaces is to use it as the masterclock. I know several people who used it with a FF800 and had no problems. The Fireface automatically detects the external clock and gets synced.. shouldn't be a problem with the newest firmware and drivers (important!).

If you can borrow the A2D before the tracking sessions (without paying) and try if it works, it would be a good idea to do it imo.

 

[Wisheraser]

Hmm, maybe I just read about 1 persons bad experience. It's been too long since I've thought about external converters to remember. I'll have to look into it again.

I'm just borrowing the A2D, Germanium, and one of the 184s from a bud of mine, so thankfully there's no cash involved for some of this gear!

 

[Jordon]

If you have one available, I just did a session with a 414 on the top of the snare and a 421 on the bottom.

Here's one of the multisamples I took: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30861978/GWPi Drum Packs/PDP Ace _Black Beauty_CRACK 1.wav

PDP Ace Black Beauty, Neve Portico Preamp. No verb, OH's (Rode NT1A's) blended in for some more crack. Processed with slight comp, 2db boost at 180hz, 1db at 7k, HP at 100hz, and some SPL transient designer (1.5 on the attack setting).

 

[Wisheraser]

Sounds good Jordan. I think I'm going to go nix the mono OH and set it up as a side-snare mic just low enough to capture the sound of the wires, but without them being overbearing.

 

[Jordon]

If you want the multi waves, tci and battery 3 files for that snare, I'll post em for you.

 

[ahjteam]

how about buying a Behringer ADA8000? That way you have 8 extra inputs

 

[Wisheraser]

If I weren't going the A2D route, I would probably consider that. It seems like it would be a massive clusterfuck to get the RME, A2D, and ADA8000 to all play nice together. Also, I'm pretty sure this A2D is one of the older ones that just has Superclock, so external clocking would be out of the question.

 

[AEL89]

how about buying a Behringer ADA8000? That way you have 8 extra inputs

8 extra inputs that sound like absolute turd.