Truth about Opeth's albums

[Space Butler]

how is that a "desperate prayer for street-cred or something?" how is that "worst crap you've read"? all of it is true. not to mention that...dude, I don't need "street cred". do you think I give a shit about looking "elite" on the internet?

every single point I made about watershed is perfectly valid, ask anyone on here who doesn't blindly praise everything opeth does. the lyrics are fucking horrid which is quite sad when mikael is pushing his cleans up front more. the riffs don't transition into each other, or even make sense next to each other at all. the performances are perfectly fine, from a technique/playing standpoint (except for the lyrics ) but the songwriting is pretty abysmal.

but, are you really that fucking deaf that you can't understand that "will the children cry when their mother dies" is a terrible lyric? or that "rest your head now dont you cry, dont ever ask the reason why" is a terrible lyric? for fucks sakes its not as if these are hidden underneath layers of harsh vocals either, these are clean vocals that are in the forefront. meandering, superfluous lyrics weren't a problem on an album like blackwater park or deliverance because there were layers of harsh vocals, which sometimes made it hard to discern that the lyrics actually were pointless. but now that mikael is trying to be david coverdale, it's apparent that the lyrics he wrote for watershed are pretty elementary, if not just flat-out bad.

it's all those points that make watershed not be anywhere close to a contender for album of the year. I think I had given watershed 3 or 4 listens and pretty much none of it had caught my attention (save for the obvious ownage parts in hessian peel, like the riff that comes after the solo during the heavy part). but take for example the deathspell omega ep ("chaining the katechon"). that ep, at 22 minutes, held my attention all the way through. to this day I'm still picking out subtle things that I never noticed before. I played that ep like 20 times when it first came out, and I still wasn't bored of it. that's why that ep is superior to watershed.

the same could be said about any of the albums that I mentioned, except maybe the maniacal vale. tmv is such a mammoth that you really need to be "in the mood" for it. after all, it's like 1hr 45min or smth.



sometimes I really wish I stopped posting on this board, it's full of dumb fanboys and people who really just cannot comprehend why everyone who was worth while ended up leaving.

Ah, Nick, you state truth so eloquently.

That was a cool story about listening to Watershed in the woods, Antyman. I live near the woods, but unfortunately its in Florida, U.S.A. It is always depressingly hot and stupid little palm trees grow underneath the pine trees which makes it hard to walk around. There are no wolves here, but plenty of black bears and rednecks, and I have come across 2 or 3 rusted out cars inexplicably in the middle of the forest.

 

[i aint play this]

WaW SpApCae BuTt3r d@ts s0 m1$t3r1o0s, i'd N3VTER PaRK A C4R iN FRsEts LiKEK tHAT!!!22...PEAC EOUT

 

[Space Butler]

^

 

[Nasty-Fire]

(bunch of shit)

You're stupid for thinking everyone thinks like you. Contextually, the lyrics are very meaningful. And it's all about taste, that's why your previous post was so moronic and pretentious just as this one you just did. Consider that people can also like Watershed more than other stuff because nobody is limited to what appears generally good to you or to a bunch of guys. In the end it's always personnal and even if some elements off Watershed are taken as negative for you, it is fairly possible that it's not for someone else. Now talk to me about terrible lyrics and coherence. And then you dare to talk about people praising blindly Opeth when you cannot even fucking respect an opinion. You're the fucking blind one.

+1 Antyman.

 

[antipunx13]

It's quite obvious that the songs on Watershed are more disjointed than on their previous releases (other than the first two). You're stretching your fanaticism a bit if you try to rationalize it otherwise. It's not about opinion in this sense. I find it funny that most people here agree that BTPSIO is disjointed, but are blind to the obvious cut-and-paste songwriting that went on in creating HA, HP, indeed all the songs on WS. And don't misunderstand me, I do like WS. Orchid and Morningrise are great despite the songwriting, but at this point in their career, I expected a lot more from Opeth.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

I was more talking about seeing disjointed songs as negative. Does that word sound that much pejorative? :Smug:

 

[antipunx13]

I was too...read better.

 

[greasyboat]

You're stupid for thinking everyone thinks like you. Contextually, the lyrics are very meaningful. And it's all about taste, that's why your previous post was so moronic and pretentious just as this one you just did. Consider that people can also like Watershed more than other stuff because nobody is limited to what appears generally good to you or to a bunch of guys. In the end it's always personnal and even if some elements off Watershed are taken as negative for you, it is fairly possible that it's not for someone else. Now talk to me about terrible lyrics and coherence. And then you dare to talk about people praising blindly Opeth when you cannot even fucking respect an opinion. You're the fucking blind one.

+1 Antyman.

do you not understand the overwhelming consensus of opeth fans that believe watershed is a relatively sub-par album by opeth standards? you think this is personal preference? ask anyone who has been an opeth fan for a couple of years what their opinion is on watershed. the answers is: it's not good.

there are always people like you who will attempt to dispel such totally obvious things, by saying "everyone's opinion is valid, man". just as 99% of people will agree that 1+1=2, a small fraction of morons will disagree. and you happen to be one of those morons.

some things are just blatantly obvious to people, and some people have awful intuition. this applies for all things, but for the love of god don't try to defend your poor instincts by saying "my opinion is just as valid as yours, man!". when your opinion is overshadowed by a gigantic clusterfuck of people who think oppositely to you, you're wrong.

 

[Melpond]

when your opinion is overshadowed by a gigantic clusterfuck of people who think oppositely to you, you're wrong.

1. this isn't slightly even a little bit true in the slightest at all (see: religion, walden, how to open a banana correctly, the fact that in the general population most people listen to shitty pop music)
2. your sample is the general 'feeling' of consensus that you gather from the members of this board who are a very specific demographic. watershed, in the real world, is a very successful album.

 

[greasyboat]

1. this isn't the general population, this is a specific population of mostly longtime opeth fans
2. the feeling that watershed was a let down is consistent else where. for example:

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/opeth
not only do the ratings on this site agree with watershed being a bit of a bummer, but also with the long-time forum consensus that still life is the best rated opeth album. couldn't be assed to google some more references, but you get the idea.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

jesus christ, now the watershed lyrics are "contextually very meaningful"? are you really THAT fucking deaf? okay, my arms and still life are what I'd call "contextually meaningful." what the fuck does children crying mean to the context, much less making the lyrics meaningful? it's not as if mikael is bad at english or something either, that would (partly) excuse terrible lines like these. he speaks english better than some native english speakers do, and all he could come up with is "will the children cry when their mother dies"? the song doesn't even make sense in the slightest, with what it's supposedly about (according to explanations in interviews).

opinions are one thing, but trying to rationalize the terrible lyrics and the disjointed feel of every song on the album is stretching it quite a bit. would like to agree with phil's notion of 1+1=2 but still some morons disagreeing - it seems like you're in the category of "1+1 DOESNT EQUAL 2!"

and Antyman, for someone arguing the point that I'm trying to "gain street-cred"...you sure were real happy to write off my post explaining WHY I thought watershed was disjointed and just pretty bad (by opeth standards).

thats what this forum has come to, blind fanboys who are just straight fuckin retarded and throw tantrums when anyone points out a flaw in opeth.

some people are just really damn dumb.

 

[Melpond]

arguing about opinions on music on the internet

 

[greasyboat]

thats what this forum has come to, blind fanboys who are just straight fuckin retarded and throw tantrums when anyone points out a flaw in opeth.

most apt summation of ultimate metal ever. no joke. i love opeth, but ill be the first to point out that they aren't perfect.

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

I mean its one thing to get that kind of shit with an upcoming album release (it happened before gr, it happened last year for ws) but now a year after the release of watershed people are still praising it as if it's the best thing since sliced bread. and it's not. it has tons of flaws and it's just not up to opeth standards.

 

[Mikael Åkerfeldt]

Some of the people here must be self-confessed globetrotters here who obviously interview Opeth fans in every country on earth about their opinions on Watershed.

Isn't it somewhat ignorant to say that the "overall" opinion on WS is that it's not good? I've been playing a respectful amount of shows all over the world and seen & heard the reactions to the "disjointed" and "poorly written" and "subpar" songs that is WS. It's quite the opposite to how some of you guys describe it.

The world actually reaches beyond the walls of your own bedroom, you must take that into consideration.

Yes, some of you are wasting energy talking bollocks about stuff you don't have a clue about. I respect your opinions, but believe me, there's a quite a few people who've been able to take in and understand what we do today.

I am perfectly fine with you hating WS, but why the hell do you want to try and make your own opinion into some new world order when it's simply not the case? Everyone doesn't think the way you do, get it?

Ugh....why oh why?
Mike

 

[Nasty-Fire]

Do I need to add anything?

Oh sorry I must do it... here we go.

(bunch of unholy crap)

(unholy defecations)

Alright you fuckhead, you will need to learn what the heck is a sophism. Don't you know that in debates, quantity doesn't mean quality. It's not because a whole army of stupid dumbasses like you are claiming that Watershed isn't good that it isn't. The simple proof of this is that I believe it is very good. You cannot even oppose yourself to what I say. Read about sophism before trying to debate with anyone.

Also, don't make comparisons with things that have nothing to do. When talking about "1 + 1 = 2" you are describing a mathematical expression based on logic. Now we're talking about a Opeth album that can or cannot be appreciated by one. It's like any music; one may think it's good, another would rather think it's bad, but in the end any opinions are totally valid because it is all subjective. Appreciation is never based on anything!

And you stupid conceited asshole. Godamn NicholasDWolfwood, you've gone to some level of ignorance that's it's simply is incredible. All that though I never claimed Watershed was the best album ever. I don't think it is. But you are seriously thinking that your ridiculous little opinion is worth more than anything. Grow up you child and accept that other may think differently. And of course you won't get anything of what I'm telling you; you're just too close-minded, it's obvious. Whenever anyone says "I think this is good" you CANNOT be opposed to that. That's why forum users invented the term "IMO".

Again, like Mikael said previously, you're restrained to your little life, you've seen nothing and you don't have a clue what the "general consensus" about Watershed. And even if there was a consensus that Watershed is a bad album, it would only apply to those who are within the group. It is for sure good in some ways but you don't agree with these ways. That's your problem stop bothering others with it.

 

[Mikael Åkerfeldt]

Nicholas...do you realize that you're on the same coin as the fanboys you speak of, only on the opposite side.

The lyrics...I will not sit here and justify why they came out the way they did, but you don't know me, what they're about, you basically don't know a single thing about anything regarding this album. Just leave it and move on.

It's not constructive critisicm, just trash talk and you're going nowhere. Everyone has understood that you think it's shit and your reasons why have been repeated (to death) by you and a few others since the release. It's alright dude, calm the fuck down.

Mike

 

[Melpond]

Thank you for Watershed. It's one of my favorite records ever.

 

[Mikael Åkerfeldt]

Thanks man, but I'm not fishing for compliments.

It just worries me that some people live their lives and believe that just because a webpage has a certain amount of angled opinions about something, that in itself becomes "fact".

Wake up, it's the fucking web! Open the door, that's reality, not this shit. They've got people sucking off horses cocks as well, is that a norm because some like to watch that shit?

 

[Prophet178]

It seems like the biggest problem you have with Watershed is the lyrics, NicolasDWolfwood. You have to realize the lyrics aren't meant to please anyone but the writer. Lyrics are personal and a direct reflection of what the writer wants to convey to you. Watershed follows no concept like Still Life or MAYH so its not fair to compare the lyrics of those record to Watershed. The lyrics, like Mike has said in countless interviews, deal with very personal things that no fan knows about or ever will know about. We will never understand "Will the children cry..." but I'm sure it has some meaning to Mike.

I think Watershed is a good record. It was certainly one of the best metal releases of 2008, and I would place it fairly high on the list of Opeth releases. Its fair to see how people would think its not a good record seeing how Watershed has a much more experimental and progressive sound rather than the black metal influences of Deliverance and MAYH. It really comes down to your personal tastes in music. To say Watershed is flat out terrible is just ignorant. The musical qualities of the record is far above the average in metal musicianship.

I think the flow of the record works very well. From the duet opener, to the 2 crushing metal songs, all the way to the spaced out experimental Hessian Peel and Hex Omega, the record flows well and keeps it interesting the whole way through. Now thats only my opinion, but I can listen to Watershed and appreciate what Opeth is trying to do. This is the next evolution in Opeth's sound. You still have the signature Opeth sound from the previous records, but you can definitely feel the progression from their earlier works.